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Anyone see the Kramer Video? His career is OVER!

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  • #61
    Anton,

    I agree with 99% of what you said. But you somewhat misunderstand what freedom of speech is all about here.

    Freedom of speech doesn't just mean you can say anything you want, because in reality you can and will get arrested for yelling fire in church during bingo night. It means you have the right to utter every word in Webster's dictionary, but don't abuse the power to the effect that it causes harm to your fellow countryman.

    It is more of a comparison to the other governments, like Stalin's Russia & Hitler's Germany, where they control the press and the media. There was no freedom of speech Soviet Russia or Nazi Germany. In America you can call the president a ******bag in the local paper. That's freedome of speech, freedom of the press, ect.

    But you can't abuse the right by causing chaos.

    Notice that the governement has not come after Michael Richards. That's because he has freedom of speech according to American law. But as for the public's opinion of him, we're the ones coming after him for the way he used his freedom.

    He tried to degrate blacks by bringing up an image of what most people will say is the worst and most embarrassing period in American History. That word has plenty of meaning (I think it technically means lazy) but the way he used it, he was coming off like a white slave master scolding his "property" for daring to interrupt his superior white master.

    It's hard to explain why the n-word is far less explosive than the c-word in some circles. I hear black comedians use it all the time without a rally from a white version of Jesse Jackson or Al Sharpton. So why is this?

    Perhaps because "c's" were not slaves.

    Compare it to cursing on TV. You can't say the f-word outside of cable because it's easily accessable to children. And children can pick this behavior/language up and adopt it as their own. Imagine a kid looking at Michael Richards going on and on with the n-word. He/she's gonna copy it. It could seep into their brain and they adopt some racist qualities that Richards showed on stage.
    Last edited by DevilSpawn; 11-24-2006, 06:02 PM.

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    • #62
      Obviously he completely lost his temper there, but resorting to racism is totally uncalled for. Some of the things he said, about holding them upside down and buying them, that is just plain disgusting. It's a shame his career must end like this...

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      • #63
        Wow I never heard about into now thats crazy....

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        • #64
          spawn...

          i fully understand and mostly obey the unwritten law on free speech...

          its common sense...

          if what you are saying is hurting someone...

          do not say it..

          it doesnt mean you cant say...

          just dont and there will be no problem...

          and i understand that media cannot be uncontrolled...

          there are far too many f***ed up weirdos out there and their weird end of the world crap does not need to be heard...

          but regarding the n-word...

          i get how the black community or some people may take offense to it...

          but what i dont get...

          is that it has become a forsaken word...

          you cant say it, you cant mention it and god forbid you think it...







          unless you are black...



          im not saying that slavery is forgiveable...

          but those that were slaves are all dead by now...

          slavery was abolished a while back...

          and if the black community still chooses to be hurt and intimidated by that word...

          thats fine... its a free country...

          but they cant schose to use it between themselves and be offended when someone else says it....

          they have to chose whether to be offended or not...

          one or the other...

          because the last time i checked..

          the "n-word" is the most commonly used word by the black community after "aight"...

          every tiem i turn on a movie, watch a show, or listen to a comedian talk that is black... something about n iggers etc, etc is always said...

          i know im labeling people here...

          but as far as i can see it...

          if they use it to call each other n igga... and so forth... then why the hell is it so insultive when a white man, an asian or a taco munching mexican says it??



          because it comes down to the manner in the way it is said...

          a word is just a word...

          but if used to insult, or degregate someone...

          THEN IT IS WRONG TO USE!!!

          but if a reporter on cnn is just trying to tell the news...

          why cant he just say the n-word??

          he isnt calling anyone a worthless slave...

          he was reporting on the story...

          and could not say it and refered to it as the "n-word" after almost swallowing his toungue...

          ...

          i just dont get it...


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          • #65
            You're bumping the whole double standard thing again. A Mexican, Cuban, Puerto Rican or Dominican doesn't usually get into trouble for using the term because it has a different meaning than its counterpart with the ''er'' ending.

            N igga came from the brotherhood us blacks look at each other as, though the brotherhood we don't always share. Mexicans or anyone of hispanic heritage usually say it because they're sharing the other side of the ghetto. Hence Fat Joe, Cuban Link, Big Pun or any other Latino rapper who isn't of black heritage. Try and see what would happen if Kevin Federline or Vanilla Ice tried using that word though. They'd quickly be looked at as upper class wiggers who wanna pretend they came from the 'hood. Well, that's already the case, but you see what I'm getting at.

            White people aren't in any ghetto, so no one thinks it's right for someone who's never experienced that lifestyle to pretend that they did.

            I remember a few years ago some Mexican Mafia member got together with one of the Rollin' Crips and tried to form a "union" of brotherhood between Mexicans and Blacks to stop the mistreatment of the minority people in this country. I'm not quite sure what happened there after that.

            I'm as guilty as any black or Mexican man of using the word and see nothing wrong with it as long as it's kept in boundaries and around your homeboys.

            It's mainly a hood thing used amongst other people who share the same lifestyle and culture.

            Its meaning has nothing in common with the one ending with "er" and thus shouldn't be taken that way.

            The other version is a lot tougher and like a verbal assault rifle as DevilSpawn had previously stated. Cracker, whitey, redneck, snowman and all of those insults don't quite have the upper tone the n word has.

            DevilSpawn also made a good point when he spoke on the word being a semi reference to the slavery days, and really it's almost like they still see us in that point of view.

            It's true some black people still hold that card against white people today, when it had nothing to do with them. But many white people still hold a card against black people just because we happen to be black. Of course this doesn't apply to everyone. But you should get where I'm coming from.
            Last edited by Spyder; 11-25-2006, 07:46 AM.
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            • #66
              This is disturbing by the way he used the word in anger and used the word period. I don't consider myself a racist or prejudice, but IMO, this isn't any worse than what the extreme black comedians do on BET about white people. I'm sick of the blacks acting like they are so oppressed but then they turn around and do even worse. I don't condone what Kramer did, but some of the people throwing stones out in there in the entertainment world need to look in the mirror! I like the way the media picks and choses their stories. RACISM SUCKS! :hammer:
              Last edited by Nomad Broncofan; 11-25-2006, 06:32 AM.

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              • #67
                spyder...

                i get where you are coming from...

                but my thing is this...

                why and how can black people be allowed to have a word that white people cant say??

                i mean if its used in a deragotory manner then sure... you can beat them up...

                but the word as a word...

                regardless of bonding and lifestyle...

                no word should be exclusive...

                i dont care if you mama and my mama lived in a hood...

                for the sake of equality....

                imo...

                if the black people want to take offense to the word irrelevant of context as an insult....

                then why in the hell are the "homeboys" calling themselves that??

                if its offensive...

                then its gotta stop on all levels...

                not just racial groupings...

                not religious beliefs...

                the main reasont he word remains in common language is because black people use it all the damn time...

                and all im saying is that if the black community really wanted it to stop...

                they gotta take the first step...



                ... and regarding the comment that cracker and such dont have the same insult value....

                how the hell does that make sense??

                there are plenty of poor white people around....

                and they may not live in ghettos in the same numbers....

                but i guarantee you that white people arent special...

                many unfortunate people are poor as bat s***....

                and although i hate rednecks...

                im sure they dont like being called that either...

                how can you claim to know how much the word will insult people??

                how can you claim that the ghetto community is affected something no one else shares and thus has a right to create its own slang that no one else can share??

                ...


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                • #68
                  Originally posted by anton...
                  spyder...

                  i get where you are coming from...

                  but my thing is this...

                  why and how can black people be allowed to have a word that white people cant say??

                  i mean if its used in a deragotory manner then sure... you can beat them up...

                  but the word as a word...

                  regardless of bonding and lifestyle...

                  no word should be exclusive...

                  i dont care if you mama and my mama lived in a hood...

                  for the sake of equality....

                  imo...

                  if the black people want to take offense to the word irrelevant of context as an insult....

                  then why in the hell are the "homeboys" calling themselves that??

                  if its offensive...

                  then its gotta stop on all levels...

                  not just racial groupings...

                  not religious beliefs...

                  the main reasont he word remains in common language is because black people use it all the damn time...

                  and all im saying is that if the black community really wanted it to stop...

                  they gotta take the first step...



                  ... and regarding the comment that cracker and such dont have the same insult value....

                  how the hell does that make sense??

                  there are plenty of poor white people around....

                  and they may not live in ghettos in the same numbers....

                  but i guarantee you that white people arent special...

                  many unfortunate people are poor as bat s***....

                  and although i hate rednecks...

                  im sure they dont like being called that either...

                  how can you claim to know how much the word will insult people??

                  how can you claim that the ghetto community is affected something no one else shares and thus has a right to create its own slang that no one else can share??

                  ...

                  That's just the thing. Black people don't take offense to "what up my n igga" because it's non pejorative within the ghetto community. I know this because I live in one, a bad one. But if someone of non African or Hispanic heritage tries to say the rap version, they'll probably just get laughed at. The one ending in "er" is a different story because it brings on a whole different meaning. A reference to the slavery days.

                  Personally I don't know how much "cracker" bothers someone because I've never seen a white person that bothered by it. I've never heard or seen a white person be bothered by any insult a black person tries to sling at them because most of the time its looked at as a joke or for comedic purposes.

                  What this Kramer guy did was not for comedic purposes. What he did was racially categorize and attempt to embarrass someone by using a word commonly found during the slavery days. A difference from the word used in rap music.

                  And I know a lot of white people are poor, that's somewhere along the line in every race. But the ghetto is different from the average poor white man you'll see sleeping on the streets in dirty clothes. A lot different.
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                  • #69
                    those in the audience and those who were offended want compensation.

                    http://youtube.com/watch?v=ATWTKhmNWBU
                    11/6/11 - The day the Oakland Raiders got raptured!

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                    • #70
                      Originally posted by Spyder
                      That's just the thing. Black people don't take offense to "what up my n igga" because it's non pejorative within the ghetto community. I know this because I live in one, a bad one. But if someone of non African or Hispanic heritage tries to say the rap version, they'll probably just get laughed at. The one ending in "er" is a different story because it brings on a whole different meaning. A reference to the slavery days.

                      Personally I don't know how much "cracker" bothers someone because I've never seen a white person that bothered by it. I've never heard or seen a white person be bothered by any insult a black person tries to sling at them because most of the time its looked at as a joke or for comedic purposes.

                      What this Kramer guy did was not for comedic purposes. What he did was racially categorize and attempt to embarrass someone by using a word commonly found during the slavery days. A difference from the word used in rap music.

                      And I know a lot of white people are poor, that's somewhere along the line in every race. But the ghetto is different from the average poor white man you'll see sleeping on the streets in dirty clothes. A lot different.

                      ive never been to a ghetto...

                      but realise this...

                      im not standing up for kramer...

                      he was a tool who insulted another prson because of their race...

                      and that crap is not on...

                      :nono:

                      im just making a social observation...

                      and i think most white people are comfortable being white...

                      so being called craker is not much of an insult...

                      cos they are nice with tea and/or dip...

                      but im sure there are some weird fools that take offense to it...

                      perhaps crack addicts...

                      i dont know....

                      i dont get offended...

                      so i wouldnt care...

                      my issue came about whe i saw a cnn piece on the topic and the reporter would reffer to the word as the "n-word" and i was taken aback how a white guy cant even say it on tv...

                      i think a reporter should be able to report the news...

                      and if someone took offense to him reporting a story on the subject with no purpose to offend, just inform...

                      then im living in the wrong world...


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                      • #71
                        one thing i have learned since joining these boards is that you deal with people from all walks of life and all forms of religion, and somethings are just plain offensive and should not be said-regardless of rights. We cannot change the past but we can educate our youngsters for the future. I am a white male but I assure you I was and am just as offended as anyone else. I for one am glad he is being held accountable for his idiotic remarks. There is no place in todays society for a-holes like him- and I am no longer a fan.

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                        • #72
                          Who's seen a stand-up comic before?
                          You all know to keep your mouth shut..otherwise you have it coming to you.
                          I've been called a terrorist, and 'al-queda' during comedy shows, and that's without even opening my mouth (i don't shave as much as i should, so i suppose thats why i was called those things)
                          Anywho, the point is, if you open your mouth during a comedy act, chances are you are gonna get ripped into.
                          Was what he said inappropriate? Of course? But the guy who was taking the lashing was inappropriate as well.
                          And wasn't Richards called a 'cracker-ass'? That's pretty much the equivalent on the n-word, yet i'm able to write it here without any censors.

                          "The Gagne T-shirt jersey comes with a complimentary can of gasoline and a set of matches."

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                          • #73
                            I think Richards was wayyyy out of line. I think those were horrible comments to make and that of a racist. Some things are just understood that you dont say....freedom of speech or not.

                            Comedians are always heckled and its assumed that all comedians will remain professional and take it. All this stuff about "50 years ago we'd have you upside down with a fork up your a$$" is just flat out hate speech. This is somewhat similar to Mel Gibson's situation. This is not something that just comes out of then air. Its something thats been deep down and ready to be released with the push of the right button.

                            Its crazy because I was a huge Seinfeld fan. Now its hard for me to watych it and look at it the same way. I know the Seinfeld season 7 sales willl be lower now.

                            Another thing you must realize that this was anger, repeatedly saying, "He's a ****** he's a ****** and he's a ****** get those motherf***** outta here" Come on. Pure hate. No matter how much I get mad at a white person I never use...Cr***** or s***.....EVER.
                            And for Anton just because you hear blacks say the n word doesn't mean they represent every black person on this planet who in other words might find the word disgusting and doesn't use it.....AND By NO MEANS gives any other race black, white, asian, or latin the right to use it. Thats how it should be but people think freedom of speech means say what you want, when you want, where you want.

                            "You need to know your place and not speak when the white man's talking"- Richards. How the hell do you justify that?
                            "No one can be told what the Matrix is....You have to see it for yourself"

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                            "Playoffs? Playoffs? Playoffs? I just hope we can win a freakin' game!"- Jim Mora- IND Colts

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