Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Climate

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Climate

    Another day, another broken record. Canada's highest ever temp was recorded today in Lytton, BC. It may rise higher, but it's 46.1C or 115F so far. BC is hot these days, and as you know, California is extremely dry. Fires keep burning in places, and storms are seemingly always threatening many other places. The trends are clear. Science gets it. Climate is a mess, and we need to do our individual parts to clean up our acts, to preserve this amazing planet. In a sense we were lucky, because covid had an initial positive affect on the climate, with significantly less pollution in parts here and there. That will reverse shortly.

    Love this earth. Pass it on to the youth as best you can. They will probably do a better job. First comes acceptance of the facts.

  • #2
    Climate change (global warming) is here, and is real. Anyone who wants to deny it, ignore it, or even scoff at it is selfish and inconsiderate IMO.


    "Scientific evidence for warming of the climate system is unequivocal."







    The planet's average surface temperature has risen about 2.12 degrees Fahrenheit (1.18 degrees Celsius) since the late 19th century, a change driven largely by increased carbon dioxide emissions into the atmosphere and other human activities.4 Most of the warming occurred in the past 40 years, with the seven most recent years being the warmest. The years 2016 and 2020 are tied for the warmest year on record. -- https://climate.nasa.gov/evidence/
    Last edited by Peerless; 06-28-2021, 04:42 AM.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Peerless View Post
      Climate change (global warming) is here, and is real. Anyone who wants to deny it, ignore it, or even scoff at it is selfish and inconsiderate IMO.


      "Scientific evidence for warming of the climate system is unequivocal."







      The planet's average surface temperature has risen about 2.12 degrees Fahrenheit (1.18 degrees Celsius) since the late 19th century, a change driven largely by increased carbon dioxide emissions into the atmosphere and other human activities.4 Most of the warming occurred in the past 40 years, with the seven most recent years being the warmest. The years 2016 and 2020 are tied for the warmest year on record. -- https://climate.nasa.gov/evidence/
      Thx pal. Though it's become an old story, it's as new as it gets. The path to massive destruction is undoubtable.

      Here's a recent report verifying the authenticity of the concern: "Yes, the vast majority of actively publishing climate scientists – 97 percent – agree that humans are causing global warming and climate change. Most of the leading science organizations around the world have issued public statements expressing this, including international and U.S. science academies, the United Nations Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change and a whole host of reputable scientific bodies around the world."

      BTW....don't worry about the planet Earth itself. It will carry on. And it is patient. Give it a hundred thousand years or so, and all will be great! It will rectify the mess we made. As the great George Carlin put it: "The planet will be here for a long, long, LONG time after we’re gone and it will heal itself, it will cleanse itself cause that’s what it does. It’s a self-correcting system."

      Comment


      • #4
        Johnlimburg, despite not being the most diplomatic in his response, does make valid points about this being a concern for the privileged... despite affecting all of us.

        An example: I remember studying poli sci in college and my #1 issue was war & US adventurism. I became fiercely libertarian and thought the greatest issue of our time was bringing humanity together as one. Focusing on making our world a better place. Tapping into the individual, the greatest resource humans have. If we could do this, we could advance our civilization, working together... and look to the stars. I'd get in fierce debates about this. How there was nothing more important. A very liberal colleague of mine one day pulled me aside after I was getting so frustrated in my political classes (almost exclusively filled with liberals) that people didn't seem to care about this issue. He gave me some insight that sticks with me today, "Joshua, most people just don't care about foreign policy. That is how the US can get away with what it does. Most people just care about where their next meal is coming from. They care about how they are going to pay their rent and their taxes. Take care of their families. It's about survival." This very much applies to Climate Change, as it did to foreign policy. Most people just don't care. Those that do are privileged enough to spend time and energy thinking about it.

        So, is our best hope to continue to generate wealth and bring as many people out of poverty as possible? It may be the only thing that saves us, as it gives humans the brain-space and privilege to think about issues like "Climate Change." But... is there enough time? The irony? Climate change simultaneously is creating more poverty by displacing the worst-off among us.

        Again, more irony... as you travel to 2nd and especially 3rd world countries, the amount of trash, poison, chemicals, and smoke that is dumped into the environment is astonishing. I'm always shocked when I travel, as nobody seems to really care. They don't have the time. The UN and the US are so focused on Climate change, they are willing to compromise their economies and national security to achieve more of a balance with our natural environment. Noble cause indeed, but then you've simultaneously got China that is, by far, the greatest polluter. Their government seems only concerned with increasing their power and influence... whatever the cost. They look at the West's move away from fossil fuels as an opportunity for them, as much of the world still relies heavily on it and will for the foreseeable future. Vastly different priorities.

        Many on the right look at the left's concern about Climate Change as disingenuous. The previous administration, whatever you may think of them, worked to create American energy independence. That independence has been dismantled in a very short period of time. By attacking pipelines, natural gas production (very environmentally friendly in comparison to many), and nuclear you are essentially forcing the American economy (that still relies heavily on fossil fuels) to look outward, importing energy... causing MASSIVE pollution.

        Just some thoughts.
        Last edited by Joshua2585; 06-28-2021, 10:28 AM.

        Comment


        • #5
          Yep, definitely agree There is plenty that can be done in a smart, measured way that can pay big dividends in the long run. We're all in this together. Makes me think of one of my favorite "quotes:"

          Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there--on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.

          The Earth is a very small stage in a vast cosmic arena. Think of the rivers of blood spilled by all those generals and emperors so that, in glory and triumph, they could become the momentary masters of a fraction of a dot. Think of the endless cruelties visited by the inhabitants of one corner of this pixel on the scarcely distinguishable inhabitants of some other corner, how frequent their misunderstandings, how eager they are to kill one another, how fervent their hatreds.

          Our posturings, our imagined self-importance, the delusion that we have some privileged position in the Universe, are challenged by this point of pale light. Our planet is a lonely speck in the great enveloping cosmic dark. In our obscurity, in all this vastness, there is no hint that help will come from elsewhere to save us from ourselves.

          The Earth is the only world known so far to harbor life. There is nowhere else, at least in the near future, to which our species could migrate. Visit, yes. Settle, not yet. Like it or not, for the moment the Earth is where we make our stand.

          It has been said that astronomy is a humbling and character-building experience. There is perhaps no better demonstration of the folly of human conceits than this distant image of our tiny world. To me, it underscores our responsibility to deal more kindly with one another, and to preserve and cherish the pale blue dot, the only home we've ever known.

          — Carl Sagan, Pale Blue Dot, 1994
          Last edited by Peanut; 07-01-2021, 02:27 PM. Reason: Deleted quoted post.

          Comment


          • #6
            Climate change is critically important, and it affects all of us. While most of us do our best to contribute without blatant virtue signaling (e.g., recycling, using LED lighting, keeping thermostat warmer/colder than you would normally to conserve energy, pursuing renewable energy options, minimizing driving while utilizing bikes/scooters for simple errand running, purchasing locally sourced foods where available, encouraging other more polluting nations to step up their efforts, et al), it's important to note that we must all do more.

            A couple of simple things we can all do:

            1) Replace meat with insects. A cricket hamburger is delicious, and the thorax really gives it a nice pop.
            2) Replace your large oversized house and yard with a nice eco-friendly Japanese style high-rise box.

            These are simple steps everyone can take to really do your part and step up. Living in a high-rise box eating marinated cockroaches is a small sacrifice for us to have a better and brighter tomorrow.

            Oh, and when you see millionaire celebrities living in multiple mansions and taking private jets all over the world every other week, pontificating the urgencies of climate change preparedness, please give them a break. They're better people than we are, and deserve to be treated differently in light of their enormous contributions to society. Just my two cents...and thank you to everyone doing their part.
            Last edited by Peanut; 07-01-2021, 02:28 PM. Reason: Deleted quoted post.
            To infinity...and beyond.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Joshua2585 View Post

              Yep, definitely agree There is plenty that can be done in a smart, measured way that can pay big dividends in the long run. We're all in this together. Makes me think of one of my favorite "quotes:"

              Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there--on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.

              The Earth is a very small stage in a vast cosmic arena. Think of the rivers of blood spilled by all those generals and emperors so that, in glory and triumph, they could become the momentary masters of a fraction of a dot. Think of the endless cruelties visited by the inhabitants of one corner of this pixel on the scarcely distinguishable inhabitants of some other corner, how frequent their misunderstandings, how eager they are to kill one another, how fervent their hatreds.

              Our posturings, our imagined self-importance, the delusion that we have some privileged position in the Universe, are challenged by this point of pale light. Our planet is a lonely speck in the great enveloping cosmic dark. In our obscurity, in all this vastness, there is no hint that help will come from elsewhere to save us from ourselves.

              The Earth is the only world known so far to harbor life. There is nowhere else, at least in the near future, to which our species could migrate. Visit, yes. Settle, not yet. Like it or not, for the moment the Earth is where we make our stand.

              It has been said that astronomy is a humbling and character-building experience. There is perhaps no better demonstration of the folly of human conceits than this distant image of our tiny world. To me, it underscores our responsibility to deal more kindly with one another, and to preserve and cherish the pale blue dot, the only home we've ever known.

              — Carl Sagan, Pale Blue Dot, 1994
              Thx for that!

              Yes, everything that we know to be life in this universe may in fact just exist on this tiny dot! And it's so cool how astronauts marvel at the sight of our home, when so far away. Home sick I suppose.

              So why do we try so hard to ruin this beautiful planet? Generally speaking, most of us do not want to harm it. From what I can tell, most do at least smaller things to help the environmental cause. Like I say, try to decrease your use of destructive fuels. Take advantage of any home improvement opportunities that make you more environment friendly. Pollute as little as possible. These alone are not hard things to do. But at the lowest level, I see garbage on the streets more often than I should. That is sad behaviour given how easy it is to not put garbage into the environment. Like around bodies of water that eventually impact sea life.

              Basically visualize yourself as that astronaut, and imagine the feeling of joy seeing "home" from far away. And try to remember, we are all just passing by, hopefully to make the place better than when we first became aware of it.

              And if you are so inclined, feel free to write those in power, and at least make your voice heard, when it is clear folks around us care less. Especially corporations who are profit driven and not much else.
              Last edited by CanDB; 06-28-2021, 12:22 PM.

              Comment


              • #8
                Well, another day another Canadian record. Apparently Lytton, BC outdid itself and hit 47.5C or 117.5 F. The coast is suffering from the heat. It is not common practice to have A/C in some parts of the coast, and this must be awful. I hear that the humidex was about 50C or 122F in places within BC. Just brutal. And it's been brutal for those in the northwest states.

                Hoping for a cool down sooner than later.
                Last edited by CanDB; 06-29-2021, 07:21 AM.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Peerless View Post
                  Climate change (global warming) is here, and is real. Anyone who wants to deny it, ignore it, or even scoff at it is selfish and inconsiderate IMO.


                  "Scientific evidence for warming of the climate system is unequivocal."







                  The planet's average surface temperature has risen about 2.12 degrees Fahrenheit (1.18 degrees Celsius) since the late 19th century, a change driven largely by increased carbon dioxide emissions into the atmosphere and other human activities.4 Most of the warming occurred in the past 40 years, with the seven most recent years being the warmest. The years 2016 and 2020 are tied for the warmest year on record. -- https://climate.nasa.gov/evidence/
                  I firmly believe "Mother Earth" has reached the tipping point. The best mankind can do at this point is make strong attempts to inhibit, slow down the effects of negative climate change to show actual positive climate improvement.

                  Our beautiful plant is very unhealthy and a band-aid approach is nothing more than weak wishful thinking.

                  The most compelling evidence to PROVE this planet is in big trouble is the glaciers. They are quickly melting and they are not coming back until the next ice age. Pay close attention to the polar ice caps. They're right behind the glaciers.
                  Utah Bronco Freak

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by CanDB

                    Yes. not to forget that many of us are simply asking that we each do our small part. How complex is that??? Simplify the complexity. It's called common sense. Don't pollute. Be environmentally friendly. Hey, we can't solve the issues round the world with respect to huge corporations and certain governments, but you have to start with what you can do. And as I mentioned, if we all wrote to those in power, eventually it gets heard. If enough dislike a candidate's perspective for example, they don't get voted in or they change their position.
                    I have dug into the historical CO2 levels.

                    Either I am smarter than I think (doubt it) or the science behind the recent graph that keeps getting reposted is not that complex. I do not remember what show I watched that explain the CO2 science but it was easy to wrap my head around.

                    Understanding the science behind some of the COVID19 treatments for example...I think I may be getting a tumor....maybe that is just my brain learning to work...not sure.

                    The Boy Scout principal is a good one. Leave the world a better place than we found it.
                    Time to build on the win and grow the team from some solid play higher level of play

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Two updates....

                      Lytton, British Columbia broke the Canadian record for 3 days in a row, with a 49.6C or 121.2F! It is true that the interior of BC has an almost desert like area - the wonderful Okanagan, which gets hot in the summer. But it does cool down in the fall and winter.

                      And I mentioned our gas consumption being very low. Our '19 vehicle has less than 6,000 kms, even less than I posted. That and less than 80,000kms on our ole booter '08. Those Toyotas last forever, so I feel like we can keep driving it for another 10 years.
                      Last edited by CanDB; 06-30-2021, 11:15 AM.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Hadez

                        You said a lot of stuff. Going to add my opinion but understand I see a lot of what you see as well.

                        I think not only are the things you mentioned important but we also need to be flexible and understanding. At anytime data / new-information can come up that updates what it known. We need to be skeptical but at the same time willing to go where the evidence takes us.

                        As to what people say in general .... not everyone has the time to go deep on subjects. People have kids, jobs and all kinds of things that takes up their time. They rely on others to do that for them and honestly the system of gathering information and reporting information has been going down hill greatly over many years. Yea it annoys me when I see someone put out what I consider an uniformed opinion but ultimately as long as they state it in a way that keeps the discussing going I am happy they just getting involved.

                        What really bothers me is when people state their opinion in way that makes it sound like the discussion if over....to someone seeking the "truth" the discussion is NEVER over.
                        Just my two cents: the science behind anthropogenic climate change is extremely well established and should've been taken as a key driver in policy 30 plus years ago (by the entire planet).

                        That said, the critical discussion points on this topic, IMO, is not the science, but the response, and its impact on geopolitics and macro economics for the world's states. Doing nothing will cost trillions in loss and likely result in a slow rolling mass extinction (amongst other long-term impacts), which could obviously have far graver consequences. Doing "something" will also cost trillions, but can at least avert a potential cataclysmic ecological disaster for future generations.

                        The technology exists for carbon capture and sequestration. Can that be scaled up to mass industrial capacity while the human race leverages greener energies? Do we have the means to scrub gigatons of carbon from the atmosphere, if all nations contribute heavily? Next gen pebble-bed fission reactors could be standard baseline power, augmented by hydro, solar, and wind (and/or possibly tidal or biomass with technology enhancements). Without an economical/efficient means to "store" electricity, having intertied regional power grids is critical to maintaining supply...this makes incorporating solar and wind an ongoing challenge due to the random and unpredictable power generation that these technologies provide. But alas, the answer will hopefully be found (and likely managed by our artificial intelligence overlords, as will much in the future).

                        This is an enormous topic, with enormous costs, that will directly and indirectly effect every living thing on this planet. Itemizing those enormous costs (for both action and inaction) is a good starting point for the world at large. Getting all nations on the same page, so to speak...will likely be the greatest challenge here, IMO.

                        I do agree with John's point that standing on soapboxes while virtue signaling is not conducive to harboring a greater depth of conversation (as opposed to more proselytizing) and just invites needless dissension...but that's likely a discussion for another day.

                        In the meantime, try an eco-friendly bug sandwich...trust me, the grub of tomorrow has never paired better with a fine wine.

                        To infinity...and beyond.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Lumiere View Post

                          Just my two cents: the science behind anthropogenic climate change is extremely well established and should've been taken as a key driver in policy 30 plus years ago (by the entire planet).

                          That said, the critical discussion points on this topic, IMO, is not the science, but the response, and its impact on geopolitics and macro economics for the world's states. Doing nothing will cost trillions in loss and likely result in a slow rolling mass extinction (amongst other long-term impacts), which could obviously have far graver consequences. Doing "something" will also cost trillions, but can at least avert a potential cataclysmic ecological disaster for future generations.

                          The technology exists for carbon capture and sequestration. Can that be scaled up to mass industrial capacity while the human race leverages greener energies? Do we have the means to scrub gigatons of carbon from the atmosphere, if all nations contribute heavily? Next gen pebble-bed fission reactors could be standard baseline power, augmented by hydro, solar, and wind (and/or possibly tidal or biomass with technology enhancements). Without an economical/efficient means to "store" electricity, having intertied regional power grids is critical to maintaining supply...this makes incorporating solar and wind an ongoing challenge due to the random and unpredictable power generation that these technologies provide. But alas, the answer will hopefully be found (and likely managed by our artificial intelligence overlords, as will much in the future).

                          This is an enormous topic, with enormous costs, that will directly and indirectly effect every living thing on this planet. Itemizing those enormous costs (for both action and inaction) is a good starting point for the world at large. Getting all nations on the same page, so to speak...will likely be the greatest challenge here, IMO.

                          I do agree with John's point that standing on soapboxes while virtue signaling is not conducive to harboring a greater depth of conversation (as opposed to more proselytizing) and just invites needless dissension...but that's likely a discussion for another day.

                          In the meantime, try an eco-friendly bug sandwich...trust me, the grub of tomorrow has never paired better with a fine wine.
                          So are you trying to say the science is "done" on this and there is nothing new to be discovered?

                          Time to build on the win and grow the team from some solid play higher level of play

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Hadez View Post

                            So are you trying to say the science is "done" on this and there is nothing new to be discovered?
                            No...that's not what I'm saying. Science is most certainly never "done" with anything.

                            With respect to climate change and its impact on the human race, what I'm asking is, what do we do about it? That is the critical discussion IMO that will directly impact where we go with this. We can discuss the carbon PPM and ice cores all day. We can discuss how rising oceans will alter oceanic currents, and thereby alter major jetstreams, and subsequently radically alter weather phenomena. Or future predicted drought regions...are these agricultural areas that will be impacted? Will there be sufficient potable water? Do desalinization plants need to be constructed? Science unfortunately doesn't currently have an accurate future date when the proverbial climatological crap will hit the global fan (or its exact and specific impacts). Like many things, that is an area of active research. However, it's the unknown variables that breed both radical and immediate solutions (that could well bankrupt a nation and obliterate the quality of life), or inactions and kicking the can down the road for future generations to deal and suffer with...which will also likely bankrupt nations. This dichotomy is like all things, politically driven (and representative of people's immediate needs) - but that's a discussion that's not for this board.

                            Discussion on the science (of anything) is always welcome...but what I'm asking is...based on what science currently understands about anthropogenic climate change, what do we do about this problem as a planet? What is our course of action? What is the cost of that course?

                            Any suggestions? Again, I'm asking realistically. This is a serious issue, but are we to tell a struggling family of six that their energy costs will rise by almost 50% (as well as virtually all goods and services produced and transported using energy)? I'm not attacking the notion, mind you...I'm just raising the discussion. Having huge industrial complexes built (likely far greater in scale than the experimental uranium enrichment facilities during the Manhattan Project) for carbon capture/sequestration, will cost an enormous amount of money. Are we to raise taxes by say 15 - 20% for everyone to finance this? Does every nation pledge say 20% GDP to combat climate change? What about countries that do not make this pledge (we all live on the same planet and reap the same consequences)? Are they tariffed into submission? Do we go to war? What are the answers to these questions? I'm asking because I don't have the slightest clue...and I doubt most world leaders do either (I could be wrong, but just a hunch).

                            To summarize and oversimplify, as best I understand this subject, climatological science is forecasting bad things. Those bad things will gradually and incrementally get worse as the decades progress, but no specific armageddon date can be feasibly provided. Halting or even reversing those bad things will cost every nation on Earth a percent of their GDP. The clock is ticking...what do we do?
                            To infinity...and beyond.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Lumiere View Post

                              No...that's not what I'm saying. Science is most certainly never "done" with anything.

                              With respect to climate change and its impact on the human race, what I'm asking is, what do we do about it? That is the critical discussion IMO that will directly impact where we go with this. We can discuss the carbon PPM and ice cores all day. We can discuss how rising oceans will alter oceanic currents, and thereby alter major jetstreams, and subsequently radically alter weather phenomena. Or future predicted drought regions...are these agricultural areas that will be impacted? Will there be sufficient potable water? Do desalinization plants need to be constructed? Science unfortunately doesn't currently have an accurate future date when the proverbial climatological crap will hit the global fan (or its exact and specific impacts). Like many things, that is an area of active research. However, it's the unknown variables that breed both radical and immediate solutions (that could well bankrupt a nation and obliterate the quality of life), or inactions and kicking the can down the road for future generations to deal and suffer with...which will also likely bankrupt nations. This dichotomy is like all things, politically driven (and representative of people's immediate needs) - but that's a discussion that's not for this board.

                              Discussion on the science (of anything) is always welcome...but what I'm asking is...based on what science currently understands about anthropogenic climate change, what do we do about this problem as a planet? What is our course of action? What is the cost of that course?

                              Any suggestions? Again, I'm asking realistically. This is a serious issue, but are we to tell a struggling family of six that their energy costs will rise by almost 50% (as well as virtually all goods and services produced and transported using energy)? I'm not attacking the notion, mind you...I'm just raising the discussion. Having huge industrial complexes built (likely far greater in scale than the experimental uranium enrichment facilities during the Manhattan Project) for carbon capture/sequestration, will cost an enormous amount of money. Are we to raise taxes by say 15 - 20% for everyone to finance this? Does every nation pledge say 20% GDP to combat climate change? What about countries that do not make this pledge (we all live on the same planet and reap the same consequences)? Are they tariffed into submission? Do we go to war? What are the answers to these questions? I'm asking because I don't have the slightest clue...and I doubt most world leaders do either (I could be wrong, but just a hunch).

                              To summarize and oversimplify, as best I understand this subject, climatological science is forecasting bad things. Those bad things will gradually and incrementally get worse as the decades progress, but no specific armageddon date can be feasibly provided. Halting or even reversing those bad things will cost every nation on Earth a percent of their GDP. The clock is ticking...what do we do?
                              I am at work will read your post more carefully when home.

                              Suggestions....get money out of the decision making. I can not express in more details without pushing the rules of these forums.
                              Time to build on the win and grow the team from some solid play higher level of play

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X