Do you think this life we have is right?

[Hawgdriver]

I remember when I was much younger, the thought occurred to me, why is life so painful? Why isn't our experience an experience of unending bliss? Although I've never done drugs, I wonder what it would be like if our life was an ecstasy like an eternal heroin bliss. I know that sounds crude and perhaps ugly, but you get the idea.

Why is there pain? Do you think it's that important that we have free will? Wouldn't it be much better without pain and only shades of happiness? Does the idea of shades of happiness mean that pain is necessary, if pain means a relative lack of happiness?

I not angling for a religious discussion here, it's just a philosophical question.

[WhoDeyBengals]

I remember when I was much younger, the thought occurred to me, why is life so painful? Why isn't our experience an experience of unending bliss? Although I've never done drugs, I wonder what it would be like if our life was an ecstasy like an eternal heroin bliss. I know that sounds crude and perhaps ugly, but you get the idea.

Why is there pain? Do you think it's that important that we have free will? Wouldn't it be much better without pain and only shades of happiness? Does the idea of shades of happiness mean that pain is necessary, if pain means a relative lack of happiness?

I not angling for a religious discussion here, it's just a philosophical question.

Dude, I wish you had posted this like 15 minutes sooner. I have to shower for work.

Short answer: pain is part of a duality. Yes, happiness and sadness are relative, but pain's also a learning tool.

Crap, I gotta go.

Crap, crap, crap.

Good topic, though.

[CinnaMunMun]

The pain just makes the good times (however long or short they may be) that much more pleasurable.

That, and roller coasters.

[Giveemlove]

I think we learn a lot about happiness and how to achieve it, and also how to appreciate it through pain. I think pain is essential. I've learned of who I am because of the pains in life I have gone through. I've learned to appreciate happiness that much more because of it.

I think this would be a boring life if we were all running around happy ALL of the time. We would never grow, we would really never know adversity.

[bengaaaaals1688]

Because joy wouldn't be special if wasn't for pain.

As much as I hate 50 Cent now, when his first song came out he had the perfect quote for this thread...

"Sunnny days wouldn't be special, if it wasn't for rain
Joy wouldn't feel so good, if it wasn't for pain
Death gotta be easy, 'cause life is hard
It'll leave you physically, mentally, and emotionally scarred."

Without pain we wouldn't care about joy, and in essence wouldn't be as happy as we can be because we know nothing other than joy and therefore can't appreciate it.

[Hawgdriver]

I think we learn a lot about happiness and how to achieve it, and also how to appreciate it through pain. I think pain is essential. I've learned of who I am because of the pains in life I have gone through. I've learned to appreciate happiness that much more because of it.

I think this would be a boring life if we were all running around happy ALL of the time. We would never grow, we would really never know adversity.

What if you could always be happy though, and always appreciate it? In other words, you never became accustomed to being happy, it was always as good as it could be?

(As I reflect on this topic, I go back to my original conclusion, which is that there is no such option. But it's still an interesting thought.)

[Hawgdriver]

Because joy wouldn't be special if wasn't for pain.

As much as I hate 50 Cent now, when his first song came out he had the perfect quote for this thread...

"Sunnny days wouldn't be special, if it wasn't for rain
Joy wouldn't feel so good, if it wasn't for pain
Death gotta be easy, 'cause life is hard
It'll leave you physically, mentally, and emotionally scarred."

Without pain we wouldn't care about joy, and in essence wouldn't be as happy as we can be because we know nothing other than joy and therefore can't appreciate it.

I agree with you in this life. But what if life was not like this? Do you think it would be a better version of life if you were always happy?

[Hawgdriver]

That, and roller coasters.

This is why I like to skydive and why I got into flying planes! But eventually, both lost their luster.

[Peanut]

My pain is in CA right now. And when he comes back in a couple of weeks, I'll forget he's a pain and be happy he's home.


A continual state of happiness? Would it be better than a life sprinkled with some pain (or, for some, a deluge)? Sure. I would much rather go through life with a smile on my face than get hit in the stomach with emotional and physical pain. But, we're human. Even if we isolate ourselves, I don't think it's possible to achieve.

[melissAnn]

are you talking about your personal pain- or are you speaking on a more grand scale? I know personal pain can stimulate growth- but I also see the OP point- what does a child learn from dying of hunger? What good is there in a young teen having to raise its siblings because their mother died of aids and they have no one else to support them (there are a million different examples of suffering)- yeah they become strong... but they lose their childhood in the process.
I think it can depend on your spiritual beliefs- but since OP did not want religious discussion... I will not go there.
I don't know that I would compare being drugged up on heroin to being truly blissful (there are much better drugs for that j/k)

I do not think pain is necessary in order to appreciate happiness. I have had long periods of my life where I was very content and happy- and I did not appreciate it more because I had had parts of my life that were painful. Think of a child. Do they appreciate happiness because they remember the sad/painful times? no they are just happy in the moment because they are... they don't need sadness to appreciate being happy... I think we as adults just tell ourselves sadness makes us appreciate happiness more- cause it makes us feel better/it sounds right.

I have two children- I had my first without any drugs at all... at home with a midwife. I had my second in a hospital with an epidural and a midwife. Do you think I love my first son more or experienced more joy at the birth of my first son because it was more painful (and the phrase 'more painful' is a joke- there isn't words for me to describe the pain lets just put it that way)- yeah I am proud that I was able to go through labor without drugs- so what... so can any woman if they have to... didn't make me 'appreciate' anything anymore... believe me.... tho I did appreciated the epidural the second time around... lol

If there was a button I could push- and all the pain of the world would go away- hunger, suffering of all kinds etc- and it was in a healthy way... good for all, no down sides etc... not happiness in a drugged up way- but just the people of the world able to live in harmony and peace- I would push it in a heartbeat.

[SeeingRed]

I think pain is essential to enjoy happiness. The more pain a person experiences in their life (not necessarily physical, but more emotional) the more that person learns to enjoy happiness.

I'm a firm believer in "what doesn't kill you, makes you stronger"...that applies to emotional pain as much as it does physical pain.

[bengaaaaals1688]

I agree with you in this life. But what if life was not like this? Do you think it would be a better version of life if you were always happy?

I can honestly say that I don't. As much as I hate not being happy, and complain about why I can't just always be happy... I honestly don't think I would like it if life was just always perfect and happy. It would get boring, even if you still appreciated the happiness somehow, just because nothing would ever really happen. When you are extremely happy, nothing huge really goes on to give you excitement, it is just a happiness. Being upset and stuff is what allows big things to happen that excite you.

[melissAnn]

Without pain we wouldn't care about joy, and in essence wouldn't be as happy as we can be because we know nothing other than joy and therefore can't appreciate it.

I don't agree- again I compare to a child- my child knows nothing of suffering or real pain- the way life can dole it out- yet he is happy- happy and joyful the way only a child can be- because he has not known pain- or suffering or seen it happen to others... it is innocence and it is why it is so sad when it is lost.

How does one appreciate happiness exactly? by being able to compare it to sadness or by being able to revel in it- enjoy it without baggage- without consequence...

[bengaaaaals1688]

I don't agree- again I compare to a child- my child knows nothing of suffering or real pain- the way life can dole it out- yet he is happy- happy and joyful the way only a child can be- because he has not known pain- or suffering or seen it happen to others... it is innocence and it is why it is so sad when it is lost.

How does one appreciate happiness exactly? by being able to compare it to sadness or by being able to revel in it- enjoy it without baggage- without consequence...

Well I also don't believe in innocence, but that isn't a topic for this thread lol. I think a child can be so happy without knowing pain only because a child doesn't even know the difference between the 2 to begin with. Their mind cannot comprehend matters such as happiness and sadness, sure they cry, but they don't do it because they are consciously sad.

I, personally, appreciate happiness by being able to say..."This is what I want to feel." I appreciate it because I know that this is what life is meant to be, no matter how hard, no matter how difficult... life is meant to be happy. You are supposed to find happiness, and in order to find that happiness you are forced to deal with pain and difficulties.

[Hawgdriver]

are you talking about your personal pain- or are you speaking on a more grand scale?

Nah, I'm peachy, and I'm not exactly referring to instances of deep personal suffering. I guess I'm talking about if it were possible to compare our existence as it is to an alternate life devoid of pain, and maxed out on total, utter, complete, unimaginable happiness. Wouldn't that be the ideal existence?

Is the duality absolutely necessary to experience life?

I think pain is essential to enjoy happiness. The more pain a person experiences in their life (not necessarily physical, but more emotional) the more that person learns to enjoy happiness.

I'm a firm believer in "what doesn't kill you, makes you stronger"...that applies to emotional pain as much as it does physical pain.

No question...it's amazing how quickly a human mind and body can adapt to cope with their circumstances.

I agree 100% with the posters up to this point, but I think I may have done a poor job posing the question. So, I'll try in a different way.

Imagine you don't exist, and there is no such thing as any existence.
You have a choice. You can live this life, or can live a life defined by continuous, eternal, infinite joy. It's joy so complete and powerful that it is beyond human imagination. And it continues to get better, and it never gets 'normal' or you never get 'used to it'. It may be similar to this one, with our human intellect and emotions and whatnot, or it may consist of you being an ethereal speck of individual life, or it may be anything. Tell your mind to re-live the happiest or most ecstatic moment of your life, and now imagine that it just continues forever, and always gets better. I guess that's the best I could describe it.

Which would you choose?

For a time, I thought that God had surely mad a mistake (sorry, not trying to be religious, but I really have to assume a 'Creator' for this argument to even make sense) by not creating the second version of 'life' I described.

Understand, I am pretty stoked to be alive...major stokeage here, and my religious preferences are fairly normal.

But I sometimes wish life was infinite joy. Heck, we all do.

But perhaps it is simply impossible to have any existence without the duality of pain and joy.

Sorry, just a random thought that popped up again from out of the blue.

Hey, at least I helped us all remember we're alive, right?