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Do you think this life we have is right?

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  • #31
    Originally posted by melissAnn View Post
    I understand you like your life and want to continue it- that makes sense.

    But I challenge that might that want just be fear of the unknown (moving from where you are now mentally, emotional, physically to a new place of pure happiness) and resistance to change rather than actual love for your life and its contrasting feelings? I like my life too- I like everything about it for the most part... now if I could take all that with me- into the pure happiness 'other reality' or whatever you want to call it- nothing I have now would be gone or changed with the exception of my attitude toward life being one of pure happiness and at the same time (since this is purely hypothetical) I am granted an addition an upgrade so to speak to my consciousness that allows me to actually experience it with no downsides- none of the well less happy would eventually be sad etc...

    I think that makes it different- if our consciousness can grow- evolve into something more- then we have the potential to experience this bliss describe by OP

    whew- my head hurts! lol
    I love discussions like this- it is so much fun hearing other perspectives and having your thoughts challenged- actually have to think about crazy stuff- good topic Hawgdriver!
    I will not argue with you at all that it could just be fear of the unknown... do I believe it is?? No, I do not. Could it be?? Yes definitely. Everyone always fears the unknown a little bit, and with changes so drastic as we are speaking of right now there is a bit more fear in it. Honestly, though, as I have stated I think that just because of our ability to think the way we can... no matter how blissful and complete our happiness would be in that life, there would come a time at which we would want more, and therefore be right back where we are now.

    I agree with your last statement completely though... these discussions are fun and they really make you think, they also help you to put your own thoughts into perspective.




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    • #32
      Originally posted by Hawgdriver View Post
      I don't agree either! Let me restate:

      Why does pain have to exist?

      Physical pain lets us know something is wrong.

      Emotional pain is a falsely created psychological construct that many humans subconciously use to avoid the cause of stress.

      Everybody's gotta elevate from the norm...

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      You should check these guys out

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      • #33
        I have come to an intermediate set of conclusions.

        First, I think that this life is defined by a duality (or a plurality) of sensation, and that fact makes it absolutely necessary that we make choices based on our preference for happiness. In addition, it is impossible to have this ability to choose based on a preference for happiness, or it is impossible to have free will, without a duality of sensation.

        Second, if there is any duality of sensation, then there must be pain. This 'pain' is simply the less preferable sensation among any two alternatives.

        Third, there is a possibility of an existence defined by pure bliss, but this existence does not have a possibility of choice, or free will. Additionally, this existence could not allow for a 'thinking' being in the sense that this being can exercise free will, since there is no choice to be made among alternatives.

        Therefore, it seems to me that there are two alternatives.

        1. An existence that allows free will but requires pain.
        2. An existence that allows pure bliss but obviates free will.

        The next logical question for me is this:

        Why were we created to live in an existence with free will and pain, when it seems that if we were given a choice, we would choose an existence of pure bliss?

        I can't help but think that eventually this train of thought will turn religious, so I apologize for posting it in this forum...but I don't have access to the religious forum. I've been told it exists.

        I know this line of thought is very similar to C. S. Lewis' logic in his work 'Mere Christianity', but that was not my intention at all when I posted. However, I've since realized that the two are very alike (it's been a few years since I read it). My intention is not to follow his train of thought, but to follow my own and see where it leads. I am also very appreciative of the well reasoned contributions of others here, I think this is an exciting, stimulating discussion.

        Thanks again for sharing your thoughts, CPs when I get recharged.
        Last edited by Hawgdriver; 09-01-2007, 01:41 AM.

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        • #34
          Originally posted by Hawgdriver View Post
          I have come to an intermediate set of conclusions.

          First, I think that this life is defined by a duality (or a plurality) of sensation, and that fact makes it absolutely necessary that we make choices based on our preference for happiness. In addition, it is impossible to have this ability to choose based on a preference for happiness, or it is impossible to have free will, without a duality of sensation.

          Second, if there is any duality of sensation, then there must be pain. This 'pain' is simply the less preferable sensation among any two alternatives.

          Third, there is a possibility of an existence defined by pure bliss, but this existence does not have a possibility of choice, or free will. Additionally, this existence could not allow for a 'thinking' being in the sense that this being can exercise free will, since there is no choice to be made among alternatives.

          Therefore, it seems to me that there are two alternatives.

          1. An existence that allows free will but requires pain.
          2. An existence that allows pure bliss but obviates free will.

          The next logical question for me is this:

          Why were we created to live in an existence with free will and pain, when it seems that if we were given a choice, we would choose an existence of pure bliss?

          I can't help but think that eventually this train of thought will turn religious, so I apologize for posting it in this forum...but I don't have access to the religious forum. I've been told it exists.

          I know this line of thought is very similar to C. S. Lewis' logic in his work 'Mere Christianity', but that was not my intention at all when I posted. However, I've since realized that the two are very alike (it's been a few years since I read it). My intention is not to follow his train of thought, but to follow my own and see where it leads. I am also very appreciative of the well reasoned contributions of others here, I think this is an exciting, stimulating discussion.

          Thanks again for sharing your thoughts, CPs when I get recharged.
          Great post man... and I think that we have the life we live only because as humans we have to have a defining feature that sets us apart from the other animals. Whether there is or isn't a God or creator, humans are uniquely different from other animals because of our sense of free will and freedom of choice. Without this we are nothing but animals. I don't think it is so much as we are forced to deal with pain and all that, as it is we are given the freedom to understand what that pain really is and means.




          Sig by Sky.:salute:

          All you nooby dooby doos need to stop making stupid threads.:coffee:

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          • #35
            Originally posted by Jared View Post
            I'm sorry, I do not agree with your basic premise so I cannot answer your question.

            Life is not painful. Oh, there may be the occasional death or inury, or what have you. But it's all in how you view things. Life itself is neither painful nor happy. People's reactions to it may be, but that's their own brain doing that, not life.
            Originally posted by Hawgdriver View Post
            I don't agree either! Let me restate:

            Why does pain have to exist?
            Originally posted by Jared View Post
            Physical pain lets us know something is wrong.

            Emotional pain is a falsely created psychological construct that many humans subconciously use to avoid the cause of stress.
            Without getting religious, Jared states it best.
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