For all you tuners...

[ReleaseTheBeast7]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Megan-Cat-back-Exhaust-System-Honda-Civic-92-00-2-4-drs_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33630QQihZ012QQitemZ220144725150QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW

Is that a good exhaust system? If not, which kind would you recommend?

Also, what's a "cat-back exhaust"?

[BroncoAV06]

So you have a Civic. What engine? Is it all stock at the moment? AT or M?

Cat back means that the system starts after the catalytic converter, hence cat back. Megan usually has some good stuff, have you looked more places then just e-bay?

Cat-back is a nice start but if you want to be more then just a load civic, get a high flow cat along with some headers. It really depends on what engine/drivetrain combo you have if it is worht adding aftermarket parts.

[RunByDesign]

For all things considered, Megan puts out a decent product. Fitment and quality are usually decent, design and ergonomics are sufficient. It goes without saying that while getting what seems like the best pricing with any of the Megan proucts, that aspect can easily be surpassed by any of the EBAY products of the same specification. And here's the kicker: they are made at the same factory in China.

The specifics are what your particular vehicle requirements are: NA or turbo, free-flowing or requisite amount of backpressure should always be taken into careful consideration. Performance versus ergonomics, etc.

For the money that you would would spend, on what is in my opinion, a low quality product, of inferior design, for a little more money, you could purchase a higher quality product, with spefications more aligned within the performance aspect, if that's what you are looking for...

Very few exhuasts incorperate flow dynamics, design and durability of materials. The one that I have settled on, that is head and shoulders above the rest, incorperating a true straight pipe design, and weight-saving materials and design is: (note that for my application, it is a combination product [downpipe and exhaust-so basically a turbo-back], of a free-flowing design; <turbo>.) http://www.rs-r.com/store/pc/viewCat...?idCategory=20

Also, a cat-back exhaust is exactly what it says: an exhaust system, consisting of a pipe and muffler (with or without resonating materials) from the catylatic converter - back.

Careful considerations should always be made if you want to make a truly educated upgrade.

[ReleaseTheBeast7]

So you have a Civic. What engine? Is it all stock at the moment? AT or M?

Cat back means that the system starts after the catalytic converter, hence cat back. Megan usually has some good stuff, have you looked more places then just e-bay?

Cat-back is a nice start but if you want to be more then just a load civic, get a high flow cat along with some headers. It really depends on what engine/drivetrain combo you have if it is worht adding aftermarket parts.

My engine is a stock engine. D16EG9(I think it's an EG9, at least). I think it's like 130-140 HP stock. Ordered an AEM SRI last week, should get it by the end of this week. I want to upgrade to a B16 by the end of next summer or so.

Manual transmission, of course.

Yes, I have looked other places than Ebay, but I knew that Megan was a pretty popular name and I tripped across it for only $300 on Ebay so I'm really debating it. My bro said specifically, for exhaust, look for names like Skunk2, HKS, GReddy, and APEX'i. Then he said the 2nd level exhausts are DC Sports, Megan, and Injen

Thing is, I was looking at a Skunk2 for like $490, but again, the price for that Megan really appeals to me.

Also, I'm planning on getting headers when I save a little more money, I just want to get the basics right now. Intake, and exhaust on the interior, and a wing, taillights, headlights, tint, and rims on the exterior, wow I'm such a ricer lol. But yeah, I'm looking to do bigger things when I get a more supportive job, I'm just trying to mod it a little bit right now. But I have a really tight budget.

Oh, another thing with my engine... Well, first off, can someone educate me on what EXACTLY a VTEC motor does?

[RunByDesign]

My engine is a stock engine. D16EG9(I think it's an EG9, at least). I think it's like 130-140 HP stock. Ordered an AEM SRI last week, should get it by the end of this week. I want to upgrade to a B16 by the end of next summer or so.

Manual transmission, of course.

Yes, I have looked other places than Ebay, but I knew that Megan was a pretty popular name and I tripped across it for only $300 on Ebay so I'm really debating it. My bro said specifically, for exhaust, look for names like Skunk2, HKS, GReddy, and APEX'i. Then he said the 2nd level exhausts are DC Sports, Megan, Injen, and Flowmaster.

Thing is, I was looking at a Skunk2 for like $490, but again, the price for that Megan really appeals to me.

Also, I'm planning on getting headers when I save a little more money, I just want to get the basics right now. Intake, and exhaust on the interior, and a wing, taillights, headlights, tint, and rims on the exterior, wow I'm such a ricer lol. But yeah, I'm looking to do bigger things when I get a more supportive job, I'm just trying to mod it a little bit right now. But I have a really tight budget.

Something else to consider: if you are considering fundamental upgrades in the near future (like an engine swap) why throw a cheap exhaust on it now, when your setup will likely have considirable more output and specifications that require a higher flow dynamic? You'll just have to spend the money all over again.

That is essentially where I'm at: I have an '06 Lancer Evolution GSR. For now, just the basics, all the asthetics...tint, system, etc... For the performance end, just a downpipe and catback and a reflash. I'll be set for a year. Kicker is, I can use all the same hardware when I upgrade my turbo and rebuild the top and bottom end and all the cooling equipment that is necesssary. In the meantime, I will reinforce all the chassis bracing and my ride will still dust all the mustangs that want a piece. lol

Anywho, if I were you, I carefully plan out exactly what you want to do and why and then figure out what the most $$$ versus performance related path there is and how to get there.

Also, not that your bro doesn't know his stuff, but I would interject that the pecking order, particularly among exhaust, especially for the Honda should be realigned, to look much like this: (of the specific list you supplied)

Skunk2, APexi, Injen, DC (Superior materials, superior craftsmanship, superior R&D)

2nd tier would be:

HKS (your paying for the name, trust me on this one)
GReddy(Trust) (low cost and affordable vs. good quality)

3rd tier would be:

Megan, Flowmaster (you may as well go to the local muffler shop and have them custom design you something - you'll save money and probably have something that performs better.)

[BroncoAV06]

Well first off why a wing?
Second if you plan on doing a engine swap soon then I agree don't put to much into what you have now. It really is a combo of things that will help you out. Cat-back/intake are good starting points but will not do much with out supporting mods. A thing to look into as well is if you have any quality speed shops in town, just for future use.
If you really plan on a b-16 see if parts you get now might be able to work with a b-16, could save you a few bucks. Cat-back could be used on it, thats where the speed shop comes in, custom exhaust work.

But I am getting a little to far ahead. Something that you have to be patient with, car parts are expensive, I know. I am getting my motor back soon from the shop, oh it dents the wallet.

The problem is, you seem to like the ricer looks but be into actually making your car perfrom better, ricers think load exhaust an intake = cool and fast. I guess time will tell if you turn out to be on the darkside or not.

[RunByDesign]

Oh, another thing with my engine... Well, first off, can someone educate me on what EXACTLY a VTEC motor does?

Variable Timing and Electronic Lift and Control

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VTEC#Introduction_to_VTEC

[ReleaseTheBeast7]

Something else to consider: if you are considering fundamental upgrades in the near future (like an engine swap) why throw a cheap exhaust on it now, when your setup will likely have considirable more output and specifications that require a higher flow dynamic? You'll just have to spend the money all over again.

That is essentially where I'm at: I have an '06 Lancer Evolution GSR. For now, just the basics, all the asthetics...tint, system, etc... For the performance end, just a downpipe and catback and a reflash. I'll be set for a year. Kicker is, I can use all the same hardware when I upgrade my turbo and rebuild the top and bottom end and all the cooling equipment that is necesssary. In the meantime, I will reinforce all the chassis bracing and my ride will still dust all the mustangs that want a piece. lol

Anywho, if I were you, I carefully plan out exactly what you want to do and why and then figure out what the most $$$ versus performance related path there is and how to get there.

Also, not that your bro doesn't know his stuff, but I would interject that the pecking order, particularly among exhaust, especially for the Honda should be realigned, to look much like this: (of the specific list you supplied)

Skunk2, APexi, Injen, DC (Superior materials, superior craftsmanship, superior R&D)

2nd tier would be:

HKS (your paying for the name, trust me on this one)
GReddy(Trust) (low cost and affordable vs. good quality)

3rd tier would be:

Megan, Flowmaster (you may as well go to the local muffler shop and have them custom design you something - you'll save money and probably have something that performs better.)

I'm not sure if I'm going to do the engine swap yet. I kind of want to see how much I can get this stock motor up to. It'll be a sweet project. I have like 105,000 on it now, and a Honda could go to 250,000 if you keep good care of it. And I see it like this... Even if I put a G in the engine, and then like $500 into the exterior, I could run this motor till it dies, get a K20 in 3-4 years with 50,000 miles on it for 4 grand, and essentially have one of the fastest cars on the road, plus it'll look good, and I basically got it for under $10,000.

So yeah, I still don't know. I'll be doing an engine swap EVENTUALLY, it just depends when, and which engine I do it with.

Soo, I'm willing to spend around $1,000-$1,500 on this motor because I want to max out the potential of this baby and see how fast I can get it up to. Plus I can beat the hell out of it by redlining everywhere I go and getting looks from everyone

[ReleaseTheBeast7]

Well first off why a wing?
Second if you plan on doing a engine swap soon then I agree don't put to much into what you have now. It really is a combo of things that will help you out. Cat-back/intake are good starting points but will not do much with out supporting mods. A thing to look into as well is if you have any quality speed shops in town, just for future use.
If you really plan on a b-16 see if parts you get now might be able to work with a b-16, could save you a few bucks. Cat-back could be used on it, thats where the speed shop comes in, custom exhaust work.

But I am getting a little to far ahead. Something that you have to be patient with, car parts are expensive, I know. I am getting my motor back soon from the shop, oh it dents the wallet.

The problem is, you seem to like the ricer looks but be into actually making your car perfrom better, ricers think load exhaust an intake = cool and fast. I guess time will tell if you turn out to be on the darkside or not.

The wing just adds that extra something.

Oh yeah, and I'll post pics up, along with some videos in about a month when I get everything looking good. I'll keep you updated.

[ReleaseTheBeast7]

Variable Timing and Electronic Lift and Control

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VTEC#Introduction_to_VTEC

Ok. So I have an SOHC VTEC in my current engine. But when I just screw around and shift at redline, I can't get a change-over like my brother can with his RSX Type S, why is this? What's the essential difference between a DOHC, I-VTEC, SOHC, etc.?

[RunByDesign]

Ok. So I have an SOHC VTEC in my current engine. But when I just screw around and shift at redline, I can't get a change-over like my brother can with his RSX Type S, why is this?

Per Wiki:

"SOHC VTEC
As popularity and marketing value of the VTEC system grew, Honda applied the system to SOHC engines, which shares a common camshaft for both intake and exhaust valves. The trade-off is that SOHC engines only benefit from the VTEC mechanism on the intake valves. This is because VTEC requires a third center rocker arm and cam lobe (for each intake and exhaust side), and in the SOHC engine, the spark plugs are situated between the two exhaust rocker arms, leaving no room for the VTEC rocker arm. Additionally, the center lobe on the camshaft can only be utilized by either the intake or the exhaust, limiting the VTEC feature to one side."

What's the essential difference between a DOHC, I-VTEC, SOHC, etc.?

For SOHC, see above.

DOHC:

Per Wiki:

"DOHC VTEC
Honda's VTEC system is a simple method of endowing the engine with multiple camshaft profiles optimized for low and high RPM operations. Instead of one cam lobe actuating each valve, there are two: one optimized for low-RPM stability & fuel efficiency; the other designed to maximize high-RPM power output. Switching between the two cam lobes is controlled by the ECU which takes account of engine oil pressure, engine temperature, vehicle speed, engine speed and throttle position. Using these inputs, the ECU is programmed to switch from the low lift to the high lift cam lobes when the conditions mean that engine output will be improved. At the switch point a solenoid is actuated which allows oil pressure from a spool valve to operate a locking pin which binds the high RPM cam follower to the low rpm ones. From this point on, the poppet valve opens and closes according to the high-lift profile, which opens the valve further and for a longer time. The switch-over point is variable, between a minimum and maximum point, and is determined by engine load; the switch back from high to low rpm cams is set to occur at a lower engine speed than the up-switch, to avoid surging if the engine is asked to operate continuously at or around the switch-over point. The DOHC VTEC system has high and low lift cam lobe profiles on both the intake and exhaust valve camshafts.

The VTEC system was originally introduced as a DOHC system in the 1989 Honda Integra and Civic CRX SiR models sold in Japan and Europe, which used a 160 bhp (119 kW) variant of the B16A engine. The US market saw the first VTEC system with the introduction of the 1990 Acura NSX, which used a DOHC VTEC V6 with 270 hp. DOHC VTEC engines soon appeared in other vehicles, such as the 1992 Acura Integra GS-R (B17 1.7 liter engine). And later in the 1994 Honda Prelude VTEC (H22 2.2 liter engine) and Honda Del Sol VTEC (B16 1.6 liter engine).

Honda has also continued to develop other varieties and today offers several varieties of VTEC: iVTEC, iVTEC Hybrid and VTEC in the NSX and some Japanese domestic market cars."

I-VTEC:

Per wiki:

" i-VTEC
i-VTEC (intelligent-VTEC [4]) introduced continuously variable camshaft phasing on the intake cam of DOHC VTEC engines. The technology first appeared on Honda's K-series four cylinder engine family in 2001 (2002 in the U.S.). Valve lift and duration are still limited to distinct low- and high-RPM profiles, but the intake camshaft is now capable of advancing between 25 and 50 degrees (depending upon engine configuration) during operation. Phase changes are implemented by a computer controlled, oil driven adjustable cam gear. Phasing is determined by a combination of engine load and rpm, ranging from fully retarded at idle to maximum advance at full throttle and low rpm. The effect is further optimization of torque output, especially at low and midrange RPM.

For the K-Series motors there are two different types of i-VTEC systems implemented. The first is for the performance motors like in the RSX Type S or the TSX and the other is for economy motors found in the CR-V or Accord. The performance i-VTEC system is basically the same as the DOHC VTEC system of the B16A's, both intake and exhaust have 3 cam lobes per cylinder. However the valvetrain has the added benefit of roller rockers and continuously variable intake cam timing. The economy i-VTEC is more like the SOHC VTEC-E in that the intake cam has only two lobes, one very small and one larger, as well as no VTEC on the exhaust cam. The two types of motor are easily distiguishable by the factory rated power output: the performance motors make around 200 hp or more in stock form and the economy motors do not make much more than 160 hp from the factory.

In 2004, Honda introduced an i-VTEC V6 (an update of the venerable J-series), but in this case, i-VTEC had nothing to do with cam phasing. Instead, i-VTEC referred to Honda's cylinder deactivation technology which closes the valves on one bank of (3) cylinders during light load and low speed (below 80 mph) operation. The technology was originally introduced to the US on the Honda Odyssey Mini Van, and can now be found on the Honda Accord Hybrid and the 2006 Honda Pilot.

An additional version of i-VTEC was introduced on the 2006 Honda Civic's R-series four cylinder SOHC engines. This implementation uses the so-called "economy cams" on one of the two intake valves of each cylinder. The "economy cams" are designed to delay the closure of the intake valve they act upon, and are activated at low rpms and under light loads. When the "economy cams" are activated, one of the two intake valves in each cylinder closes well after the piston has started moving upwards in the compression stroke. That way, a part of the mixture that has entered the combustion chamber is forced out again, into the intake manifold. That way, the engine "emulates" a lower displacement than its actual one (its operation is also similar to an Atkinson cycle engine, with uneven compression and combustion strokes), which reduces fuel consumption and increases its efficiency. During the operation with the "economy cams", the (by-wire) throttle butterfly is kept fully open, in order to reduce pumping losses. According to Honda, this measure alone can reduce pumping losses by 16%. In higher rpms and under heavier loads, the engine switches back into its "normal cams", and it operates like a regular 4 stroke Otto cycle engine. This implementation of i-VTEC was initially introduced in the R18A1 engine found under the bonnet of the 8th generation Civic, with a displacement of 1,8lt and an output of 140Ps. Recently, another variant was released, the 2-litre R20A2 with an output of 150Ps, which powers the EUDM version of the all-new CRV

With the continued introduction of vastly different i-VTEC systems, one may assume that the term is now a catch-all for creative valve control technologies from Honda."

Obviously, much insight can be gained from simply reading the entry.

[ReleaseTheBeast7]

Per Wiki:

"SOHC VTEC
As popularity and marketing value of the VTEC system grew, Honda applied the system to SOHC engines, which shares a common camshaft for both intake and exhaust valves. The trade-off is that SOHC engines only benefit from the VTEC mechanism on the intake valves. This is because VTEC requires a third center rocker arm and cam lobe (for each intake and exhaust side), and in the SOHC engine, the spark plugs are situated between the two exhaust rocker arms, leaving no room for the VTEC rocker arm. Additionally, the center lobe on the camshaft can only be utilized by either the intake or the exhaust, limiting the VTEC feature to one side."







For SOHC, see above.

DOHC:

Per Wiki:

"DOHC VTEC
Honda's VTEC system is a simple method of endowing the engine with multiple camshaft profiles optimized for low and high RPM operations. Instead of one cam lobe actuating each valve, there are two: one optimized for low-RPM stability & fuel efficiency; the other designed to maximize high-RPM power output. Switching between the two cam lobes is controlled by the ECU which takes account of engine oil pressure, engine temperature, vehicle speed, engine speed and throttle position. Using these inputs, the ECU is programmed to switch from the low lift to the high lift cam lobes when the conditions mean that engine output will be improved. At the switch point a solenoid is actuated which allows oil pressure from a spool valve to operate a locking pin which binds the high RPM cam follower to the low rpm ones. From this point on, the poppet valve opens and closes according to the high-lift profile, which opens the valve further and for a longer time. The switch-over point is variable, between a minimum and maximum point, and is determined by engine load; the switch back from high to low rpm cams is set to occur at a lower engine speed than the up-switch, to avoid surging if the engine is asked to operate continuously at or around the switch-over point. The DOHC VTEC system has high and low lift cam lobe profiles on both the intake and exhaust valve camshafts.

The VTEC system was originally introduced as a DOHC system in the 1989 Honda Integra and Civic CRX SiR models sold in Japan and Europe, which used a 160 bhp (119 kW) variant of the B16A engine. The US market saw the first VTEC system with the introduction of the 1990 Acura NSX, which used a DOHC VTEC V6 with 270 hp. DOHC VTEC engines soon appeared in other vehicles, such as the 1992 Acura Integra GS-R (B17 1.7 liter engine). And later in the 1994 Honda Prelude VTEC (H22 2.2 liter engine) and Honda Del Sol VTEC (B16 1.6 liter engine).

Honda has also continued to develop other varieties and today offers several varieties of VTEC: iVTEC, iVTEC Hybrid and VTEC in the NSX and some Japanese domestic market cars."

I-VTEC:

Per wiki:

" i-VTEC
i-VTEC (intelligent-VTEC [4]) introduced continuously variable camshaft phasing on the intake cam of DOHC VTEC engines. The technology first appeared on Honda's K-series four cylinder engine family in 2001 (2002 in the U.S.). Valve lift and duration are still limited to distinct low- and high-RPM profiles, but the intake camshaft is now capable of advancing between 25 and 50 degrees (depending upon engine configuration) during operation. Phase changes are implemented by a computer controlled, oil driven adjustable cam gear. Phasing is determined by a combination of engine load and rpm, ranging from fully retarded at idle to maximum advance at full throttle and low rpm. The effect is further optimization of torque output, especially at low and midrange RPM.

For the K-Series motors there are two different types of i-VTEC systems implemented. The first is for the performance motors like in the RSX Type S or the TSX and the other is for economy motors found in the CR-V or Accord. The performance i-VTEC system is basically the same as the DOHC VTEC system of the B16A's, both intake and exhaust have 3 cam lobes per cylinder. However the valvetrain has the added benefit of roller rockers and continuously variable intake cam timing. The economy i-VTEC is more like the SOHC VTEC-E in that the intake cam has only two lobes, one very small and one larger, as well as no VTEC on the exhaust cam. The two types of motor are easily distiguishable by the factory rated power output: the performance motors make around 200 hp or more in stock form and the economy motors do not make much more than 160 hp from the factory.

In 2004, Honda introduced an i-VTEC V6 (an update of the venerable J-series), but in this case, i-VTEC had nothing to do with cam phasing. Instead, i-VTEC referred to Honda's cylinder deactivation technology which closes the valves on one bank of (3) cylinders during light load and low speed (below 80 mph) operation. The technology was originally introduced to the US on the Honda Odyssey Mini Van, and can now be found on the Honda Accord Hybrid and the 2006 Honda Pilot.

An additional version of i-VTEC was introduced on the 2006 Honda Civic's R-series four cylinder SOHC engines. This implementation uses the so-called "economy cams" on one of the two intake valves of each cylinder. The "economy cams" are designed to delay the closure of the intake valve they act upon, and are activated at low rpms and under light loads. When the "economy cams" are activated, one of the two intake valves in each cylinder closes well after the piston has started moving upwards in the compression stroke. That way, a part of the mixture that has entered the combustion chamber is forced out again, into the intake manifold. That way, the engine "emulates" a lower displacement than its actual one (its operation is also similar to an Atkinson cycle engine, with uneven compression and combustion strokes), which reduces fuel consumption and increases its efficiency. During the operation with the "economy cams", the (by-wire) throttle butterfly is kept fully open, in order to reduce pumping losses. According to Honda, this measure alone can reduce pumping losses by 16%. In higher rpms and under heavier loads, the engine switches back into its "normal cams", and it operates like a regular 4 stroke Otto cycle engine. This implementation of i-VTEC was initially introduced in the R18A1 engine found under the bonnet of the 8th generation Civic, with a displacement of 1,8lt and an output of 140Ps. Recently, another variant was released, the 2-litre R20A2 with an output of 150Ps, which powers the EUDM version of the all-new CRV

With the continued introduction of vastly different i-VTEC systems, one may assume that the term is now a catch-all for creative valve control technologies from Honda."

Obviously, much insight can be gained from simply reading the entry.

The terms confuse me, but I guess I get it. I can't go into "VTEC mode" because there's not enough room in the engine? Am I getting that right?

[RunByDesign]

The terms confuse me, but I guess I get it. I can't go into "VTEC mode" because there's not enough room in the engine? Am I getting that right?

Actually, you are going into VTEC mode, but only on the intake side; which equates to low rpm power and torque, essentially.

But yes, most of your interpretation in in essence, right.

The MIVEC system on my car is based on a similar predication.

[ReleaseTheBeast7]

Actually, you are going into VTEC mode, but only on the intake side; which equates to low rpm power and torque, essentially.

But yes, most of your interpretation in in essence, right.

The MIVEC system on my car is based on a similar predication.

So I may sound like I'm talking out of my ass right now but... Since I'm only going into VTEC on the intake side, an intake will help my HP more than a normal car or no?

[ReleaseTheBeast7]

Also, I'm looking into ordering taillights tonight... Which do you guys think will look better on a white civic?

1:

http://209.200.64.237/images/auto/2670-92-95-Civic-2D4D-Altez.jpg

2:

http://motorsporthouse.onlinera.com/40.4550TLCF.jpg

3:

http://motorsporthouse.onlinera.com/New%20Folder/9295Civic2DTLC.jpg