The official 2014-2015 Denver Nuggets thread

[Houshmazode]

At this point I'm more inclined to say that was a fluke as opposed to a trend. Besides, Hibbert had like 1 good playoffs, not much else. As for comparisons, hes about on par now as he was with Shaw.

He rebounding and blocks have gone down since Shaw left, his shooting percentage dropped last year and overall he's shown a decline in play.

[the0rangecrush]

He rebounding and blocks have gone down since Shaw left, his shooting percentage dropped last year and overall he's shown a decline in play.

The difference between a 1 point and 1 reb. The blocks are less than 1 per game. Negligible differences, it's hardly come crashing down because of Shaw ' s departure.

[Houshmazode]

The difference between a 1 point and 1 reb. The blocks are less than 1 per game. Negligible differences, it's hardly come crashing down because of Shaw ' s departure.

Like it or not, his play has shown a decline. He's much less effective. He's pulling down nearly 2 less offensive rebounds per game this season than his last season with Shaw. He's not the same player.

[58_VONDOOM_92]

Like it or not, his play has shown a decline. He's much less effective. He's pulling down nearly 2 less offensive rebounds per game this season than his last season with Shaw. He's not the same player.

Maybe not having Paul George there is a reason for his decline?

[Houshmazode]

Maybe not having Paul George there is a reason for his decline?

So his play depends completely on one player?

[Bronco51]

Proof? They paid McGee.

I said star.

[Houshmazode]

I said star.

Regardless, they're willing to pay for what they think the team needs, which was your point.

[MegaOrange]

Ok I'll play the beat a dead horse game.

Shaw = Second year HC
Karl = 20 plus years of HC experience.

There is no denying that Karl could get more out of this roster. But...

Karl = One and done every year in the playoffs with this roster. Which I am not ok with.

2. The team is finally beginning to overhaul the roster as needed for Shaw. See Friday trade deadline moves a long with moving Mozgov and bringing in draft picks.

You act like overhauling a roster can be done overnight. Although I would say Philly is doing it better than us just dumping literally everyone at once.

It's a process and personally I would still like to see a few more be moved ala Faried, Gallo and Lawson.

The draft hasn't happened yet so you need patience for the first round picks were are collecting.

Tanking is a good thing. It's not fun to watch. But in the long run it's necessary to get that top 5 pick. I don't understand why you want them to make effort to improve and ruin that.

I'll admit Shaw and the players are not attempting to tank in all likelihood so their excuse isn't my excuse. And Shaw may not even last long enough to oversee this roster overhaul.

But I'll withhold judgement until we draft a couple of elite players. Assuming they don't draft some busts.

This year is gone. Time to move on. I say if we see no improvements next year we dump Shaw. But I really don't think it's fair to judge him until then. You really gotta move on from the 57 win team and stop thinking that because Karl did it it justifies anything.

1. Shaw, I thought, was advertised to bring in a stronger half court game so that success in the playoffs was the next step. I do not recall at all that we didn't have the right players or that this was the start of a rebuild. This excuse only came up once we started losing. In fact, I thought the run game would stay but the half court came would be improved. Instead we have no run game and no half court game.

2. As for the deadline deals and Moz. Moz was more suited to half court play or Shaw's "system". We got some 1st rounders out of it and I feel Nurk will have a much higher ceiling so I'm okay with the deal. But, Moz wasn't overpriced or a burden like McGee. McGee was a good move just to find anyone to take him. As for Afflalo, I get moving him but the move just seems to be a nail in the coffin of an inept FO. The one major acquisition you bring in is one of the first guys you move? I'm not sure I like Faried's contract but we signed him anyway. Why do that if again he's not part of your "system". At best it was a gutless signing. If he moves he may never completely earn that contract although it's no McGee contract. But, he will play hard and he will be a valuable asset with his hustle. As for the rest of the roster - I'm assuming a lot these guys will move and will have greater success wherever they go. They will be coached, contrary to what we have now. I'm no Andre Miller fanboy but it should say something when a guy like that, veteran, disrespects a coach during a game. He's not some Metta World Peace, he's an old school veteran. When he snaps it speaks volumes. It also speaks volumes that the FO paid him to stay home until they traded him. Shaw is fragile.

What we have now is a career bball man that is much younger than Karl that's reading books on how to relate to players. Sorry, that's pathetic. Kevin Garnett could coach this team right now and get more respect than Shaw. Not because of their accomplishments but because Garnett would demand it. He wouldn't move practice time so these guys could get more rest. Shaw thinks he needs to be friends with these guys and they are walking all over him. He's lost this team and it won't matter how many new faces they bring in. Players know the facts, while we didn't win in the playoffs we were there a tough team to face night in and night out. That's a distant memory and the major change they see is Shaw. Do you think two well respected guys like Andre Miller or Arron Afflalo have much positive to say about Shaw or the Nuggets FO? We're building a bad rep from top to bottom.

As for this rebuild, I think it's excuse making just like system players. It's unlikely we get some superstar, the whole league would like to have that. It's simply not that easy. I think 5 years from now we'll be wishing for 1st round losses. I would not be surprised if this is the beginning of a coaching and player carousel. We've got a whole bunch of clueless running this team.

[Bronco51]

Regardless, they're willing to pay for what they think the team needs, which was your point.

No. My point was that they are only willing to pay so much, so when guys like Durant, Curry, James might become available, Denver will not go after them because of money. You need guys like those to be successful. Not a guy like McGee that you HOPE will pan out. Denver won't attract stars because they won't pay them.

[Houshmazode]

No. My point was that they are only willing to pay so much, so when guys like Durant, Curry, James might become available, Denver will not go after them because of money. You need guys like those to be successful. Not a guy like McGee that you HOPE will pan out. Denver won't attract stars because they won't pay them.

Whatever. Ujiri is gone. Your points are baseless. We paid Iverson and Chauncy Billups with the same ownership. Why don't you wait and see what happens with Connelly before proclaiming the end.

[the0rangecrush]

Like it or not, his play has shown a decline. He's much less effective. He's pulling down nearly 2 less offensive rebounds per game this season than his last season with Shaw. He's not the same player.

A decline yes, but if Shaw is only good for 1 more point and one more board, it's hardly a significant amount to hang your hat on.

[Houshmazode]

A decline yes, but if Shaw is only good for 1 more point and one more board, it's hardly a significant amount to hang your hat on.

Clueless..

[the0rangecrush]

Clueless..

Pot meet kettle

[Bronco51]

Whatever. Ujiri is gone. Your points are baseless. We paid Iverson and Chauncy Billups with the same ownership. Why don't you wait and see what happens with Connelly before proclaiming the end.

You mean Iverson after his 10th year in the league and Billups after his 11th year in the league? I wasn't aware those were your prime years in the league. Stop wishing. I asked Connelly to his face if Denver was ever going to be in position to afford a 'Big Three' and he said that that is not the business model they were striving for. In other words 'no'.
They want to draft and pray. Which might be okay if you have a darn good coach. And Shaw ain't it.

[Houshmazode]

Pot meet kettle

Not really, do you know the significance of offensive rebounds to defensive rebounds? Do you have any idea that anything less or more than .5 blocks a game is pretty significant over the course of an 82 game season?

Do you understand player efficiency rating?
Hibbert's over the last 5 years (regular season):
14-15: 15.67 (33rd in the league)
13-14: 13.54 (first year without Shaw, 49th in the league among Centers)
12-13: 17.32 (last year with Shaw, 24th in the league)
11-12: 19.35 (10th in the league, 1st year with Shaw)
10-11: 15.96 (24th, year before Shaw)


So yea, I guess those 2 years where he played much more efficiently was just a fluke. Not going to respond to your slop until you provide an argument with FACTS.