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  • Originally posted by Bronco51 View Post
    You mean Iverson after his 10th year in the league and Billups after his 11th year in the league? I wasn't aware those were your prime years in the league. Stop wishing. I asked Connelly to his face if Denver was ever going to be in position to afford a 'Big Three' and he said that that is not the business model they were striving for. In other words 'no'.
    They want to draft and pray. Which might be okay if you have a darn good coach. And Shaw ain't it.
    Oh, you asked him to his face. I have a penthouse suite on the moon, too.

    How do you know Shaw's not a good coach? He doesn't have the type of players that his system runs. Explain that.
    :lombardi:2019 Adopt-A-Bronco: Dr. Dre'Mont Jones
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    • Originally posted by Houshmazode View Post
      Oh, you asked him to his face. I have a penthouse suite on the moon, too.

      How do you know Shaw's not a good coach? He doesn't have the type of players that his system runs. Explain that.
      I have been a season ticket holder since '92, so yeah those are some of the perks, they have sit downs with the FO when they want you to re-up your account. So I hope you enjoy your penthouse. And if Shaw is such a good coach in your eyes, name me ONE player who has improved under his tutelage. ONE. Wouldn't a good coach be able to squeeze all the talent out of them that he could? And if we're going to fall back on that tired excuse of a 'system', when is Denver going unleash this master plan of acquiring said talent? So he gets to run the team until he feels like he has the 'system' players he needs. How long will that take? 1 year? 2 years? Just when can we expect him to have the perfect conditions to have a competitive team?

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      • Originally posted by Houshmazode View Post
        Not really, do you know the significance of offensive rebounds to defensive rebounds? Do you have any idea that anything less or more than .5 blocks a game is pretty significant over the course of an 82 game season?

        Do you understand player efficiency rating?
        Hibbert's over the last 5 years (regular season):
        14-15: 15.67 (33rd in the league)
        13-14: 13.54 (first year without Shaw, 49th in the league among Centers)
        12-13: 17.32 (last year with Shaw, 24th in the league)
        11-12: 19.35 (10th in the league, 1st year with Shaw)
        10-11: 15.96 (24th, year before Shaw)


        So yea, I guess those 2 years where he played much more efficiently was just a fluke. Not going to respond to your slop until you provide an argument with FACTS.
        Do you understand what PER is? PER is essentially a formula of the cumulative statistics, however it ignores defensive significance to the game if the don't have steals and blocks. Basically it's like saying a guy who gets 1 sack and 1 pressure is better than a guy who gets 30 pressures and no sacks. It also ignores who their competition is.As for 11-12 he played nearly 20% less of the games than a player in every game. As for development in the seasons after Shaw he improved FT%, TOs, and fouls. All important aspects to a big man's game.
        What's the difference between ignorance and apathy?
        I don't know and I don't care

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        • Originally posted by Houshmazode View Post
          Oh, you asked him to his face. I have a penthouse suite on the moon, too.

          How do you know Shaw's not a good coach? He doesn't have the type of players that his system runs. Explain that.
          A good coach fits system to players, not players to system...
          What's the difference between ignorance and apathy?
          I don't know and I don't care

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Bronco51 View Post
            I have been a season ticket holder since '92, so yeah those are some of the perks, they have sit downs with the FO when they want you to re-up your account. So I hope you enjoy your penthouse. And if Shaw is such a good coach in your eyes, name me ONE player who has improved under his tutelage. ONE. Wouldn't a good coach be able to squeeze all the talent out of them that he could? And if we're going to fall back on that tired excuse of a 'system', when is Denver going unleash this master plan of acquiring said talent? So he gets to run the team until he feels like he has the 'system' players he needs. How long will that take? 1 year? 2 years? Just when can we expect him to have the perfect conditions to have a competitive team?
            Roy Hibbert.

            If the players here don't want to play Shaw's style because they liked the freedom that Karl had, screw 'em. They can leave and fade away into the bench quality players that most of them were. Denver's already working on it, the biggest thing they had to do was get rid of McGee's contract to free up space to be able to do that. We've cleared up more room and are ready to make a run in free agency this year. We've got a few players with expiring contracts leaving too.

            You can't agree that Shaw has the players he needs to run his system. We saw that system in Indiana. The only players that may fit here are Chandler, Lawson, Nurkic. Nurkic is a rookie.
            :lombardi:2019 Adopt-A-Bronco: Dr. Dre'Mont Jones
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            • Originally posted by the0rangecrush View Post
              Do you understand what PER is? PER is essentially a formula of the cumulative statistics, however it ignores defensive significance to the game if the don't have steals and blocks. Basically it's like saying a guy who gets 1 sack and 1 pressure is better than a guy who gets 30 pressures and no sacks. It also ignores who their competition is.As for 11-12 he played nearly 20% less of the games than a player in every game. As for development in the seasons after Shaw he improved FT%, TOs, and fouls. All important aspects to a big man's game.
              Free throw percentage is an important aspect of a big man's game? :Laugh: good one.

              Ignore the facts all you want. His blocks went down after Shaw, so the difference in his PER would be even bigger. Not sure why you threw that into your argument.
              Last edited by Houshmazode; 02-24-2015, 06:24 PM.
              :lombardi:2019 Adopt-A-Bronco: Dr. Dre'Mont Jones
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              • Originally posted by the0rangecrush View Post
                A good coach fits system to players, not players to system...
                Yea, keep using that excuse.
                :lombardi:2019 Adopt-A-Bronco: Dr. Dre'Mont Jones
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                • Originally posted by Houshmazode View Post
                  Free throw percentage is an important aspect of a big man's game? :Laugh: good one.

                  Ignore the facts all you want.
                  There's a reason hack a Howard is a strategy

                  Ignorant post is ignorant
                  What's the difference between ignorance and apathy?
                  I don't know and I don't care

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Houshmazode View Post
                    Yea, keep using that excuse.
                    Ya keep them blinders on man, ignorance must be bliss.
                    What's the difference between ignorance and apathy?
                    I don't know and I don't care

                    Comment


                    • I'm still waiting for those stats and facts, btw. Free throw pct. is a weak argument when the important stats like blocks and rebounds being the two biggest factors in a centers' defensive game went down after Shaw, so again, not sure why you included that in your argument about PER.

                      And FT percentage is the stat that is probably the most dependent on a player's willingness to practice it. Is it really that hard to coach free throws? If they are so important why were Karl's teams so terrible at free throws? He was a great coach, right?
                      :lombardi:2019 Adopt-A-Bronco: Dr. Dre'Mont Jones
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                      • Originally posted by Houshmazode View Post
                        Roy Hibbert.

                        If the players here don't want to play Shaw's style because they liked the freedom that Karl had, screw 'em. They can leave and fade away into the bench quality players that most of them were. Denver's already working on it, the biggest thing they had to do was get rid of McGee's contract to free up space to be able to do that. We've cleared up more room and are ready to make a run in free agency this year. We've got a few players with expiring contracts leaving too.

                        You can't agree that Shaw has the players he needs to run his system. We saw that system in Indiana. The only players that may fit here are Chandler, Lawson, Nurkic. Nurkic is a rookie.
                        Shaw was Hibbert's head coach in Indiana? And those bench quality players won 57 games, now they will be lucky to win 37. You can't possibly believe that that is all on the system failure. This team has absolutely no competitive spirit, none. He has not made one player on this team better at all. In fact, they have regressed. That is not a sign of a good coach in my eyes. And hopefully the front office is starting to realize this as well.

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                        • Originally posted by Bronco51 View Post
                          Shaw was Hibbert's head coach in Indiana? And those bench quality players won 57 games, now they will be lucky to win 37. You can't possibly believe that that is all on the system failure. This team has absolutely no competitive spirit, none. He has not made one player on this team better at all. In fact, they have regressed. That is not a sign of a good coach in my eyes. And hopefully the front office is starting to realize this as well.
                          I don't think the FO is realizing that. It does seem like they're trying to rebuild the roster to provide him with the players he wants. It was dumb to hire him in the first place with the players and system we had, complete opposite of what he coaches. I think the FO sees that and are trying to give him a decent chance to run it, without the loser players who refuse to play hard. A couple of those were here with Karl (Gallinari, Chandler at times, Lawson at times). It seems like thee players didn't even try to begin with because they didn't like what Shaw implemented. And that much (not trying) is on them, because Karl is gone for good.

                          Shaw was the assistant head coach and Hibbert's mentor in Indiana, it's well documented and the credit given for Hibbert's improvement is given to Shaw. Hibbert even said it.
                          :lombardi:2019 Adopt-A-Bronco: Dr. Dre'Mont Jones
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                          • Originally posted by Houshmazode View Post
                            I'm still waiting for those stats and facts, btw. Free throw pct. is a weak argument when the important stats like blocks and rebounds being the two biggest factors in a centers' defensive game went down after Shaw, so again, not sure why you included that in your argument about PER.

                            And FT percentage is the stat that is probably the most dependent on a player's willingness to practice it. Is it really that hard to coach free throws? If they are so important why were Karl's teams so terrible at free throws? He was a great coach, right?
                            I debunked your PER, and provided 3 metrics that are important to a big man's success, and you're still waiting. You must be all kinds of special.

                            Yet the team still sucks at FTs, but Shaw is good at player development.

                            You've already proven lack of knowledge for situational basketball, it's kind of pointless to discuss with a guy who doesn't understand the game.
                            What's the difference between ignorance and apathy?
                            I don't know and I don't care

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Houshmazode View Post
                              I don't think the FO is realizing that. It does seem like they're trying to rebuild the roster to provide him with the players he wants. It was dumb to hire him in the first place with the players and system we had, complete opposite of what he coaches. I think the FO sees that and are trying to give him a decent chance to run it, without the loser players who refuse to play hard. A couple of those were here with Karl (Gallinari, Chandler at times, Lawson at times). It seems like thee players didn't even try to begin with because they didn't like what Shaw implemented. And that much (not trying) is on them, because Karl is gone for good.

                              Shaw was the assistant head coach and Hibbert's mentor in Indiana, it's well documented and the credit given for Hibbert's improvement is given to Shaw. Hibbert even said it.
                              Totally agree with those points.

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                              • Originally posted by the0rangecrush View Post
                                I debunked your PER, and provided 3 metrics that are important to a big man's success, and you're still waiting. You must be all kinds of special.

                                Yet the team still sucks at FTs, but Shaw is good at player development.

                                You've already proven lack of knowledge for situational basketball, it's kind of pointless to discuss with a guy who doesn't understand the game.
                                You debunked it?

                                You didn't debunk anything, you must have missed the part where his blocks would have only added to his PER because those have gone down since Shaw left too. And I just ignored the part about steals, because steals are not even close to being an important part of a center's game. Those go mostly to guards because they're on the ball a lot more often and to forwards because they're in between the post and 3 pt line in position to pick off passes, not down in the post and paint like centers. Being the knowledgeable guy you are about situational basketball (sarcasm), I figured you would have known that. In no way does bringing up steals in regards to PER help your argument.

                                The only reason you're saying it's kind of pointless to discuss with me is because you've lost, you have no argument and you're grasping at some pretty sad straws (seriously, steals?). You tried to use the excuse that his blocks going down less than 1 a game really didn't mean much earlier. Hibbert averages .4 steals per game for his career, and even then he had/has .2 this year and .4 last year, down from .5 to .5, which again, doesn't help your argument at all, it hurts it. And I'm not even saying steals are important when discussin a center, because they're not. Your process of debating this is mindboggling, dude.
                                :lombardi:2019 Adopt-A-Bronco: Dr. Dre'Mont Jones
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