Indiana Jones

[ebsoria]

All I gotta say is- CRAP!!!!! Okay, I'll go on... I almost had to walk out. IMO it is not worth all the hype. And the whole ending? It was all too sci-fi for me considering it was Indy Jones. It was like wathcing a grown up version of Goonies where once they entered the temple I kept expecting One Eyed Willy or for them to break into the truffle shuffle(thanks Diver). Sad sad day... anyone ready for Dark Knight?!?!

[Peerless]

All I gotta say is- CRAP!!!!! Okay, I'll go on... I almost had to walk out. IMO it is not worth all the hype. And the whole ending? It was all too sci-fi for me considering it was Indy Jones. It was like wathcing a grown up version of Goonies where once they entered the temple I kept expecting One Eyed Willy or for them to break into the truffle shuffle(thanks Diver). Sad sad day... anyone ready for Dark Knight?!?!

I was never a HUGE Indy fan, yet I watched all the older movies.

I haven't seen this one yet, but from the previews and stuff, it looks to high tech... like with all the special effects and etc. It's just not very "Indy" like imo.

:2cents:

[MasterShake]

I thought it was a really fun, flawed movie just like the other Indiana Jones' (sans Raiders of the Lost Ark). I think people will either really like it, or really hate it. The theme changed (sci-fi vs. religion) but all the plot staples for Indy were there. At first I thought the ending was a little out there, then my friend pointed out it was no worse than melting faces, sacred stones, or 400 year old knights gaurding the Holy Grail.

[ebsoria]

I thought it was a really fun, flawed movie just like the other Indiana Jones' (sans Raiders of the Lost Ark). I think people will either really like it, or really hate it. The theme changed (sci-fi vs. religion) but all the plot staples for Indy were there. At first I thought the ending was a little out there, then my friend pointed out it was no worse than melting faces, sacred stones, or 400 year old knights gaurding the Holy Grail.

I dunno... I think this one was a bit out there. But then, to each their own.

[MasterShake]

I dunno... I think this one was a bit out there. But then, to each their own.

I understand. It was not perfect ( I especially did not like the scenes with the refridgerator or the monkeys) but it is a welcome addition to the Indy lore for me.

[Poindexter]

I hated it. I was a fan of the original 3, but this one was just lame. Is it just me, or were things that would obliterate a normal person brushed off as no big deal?

IE: The refrigerator scene.

I know the other movies in the series were far fetched, but this one was WAY over the top, and just got more and more ridiculous.

[RealBronco]

I was never a HUGE Indy fan, yet I watched all the older movies.

I haven't seen this one yet, but from the previews and stuff, it looks to high tech... like with all the special effects and etc. It's just not very "Indy" like imo.

:2cents:

that's only because Lucas realized that if he puts a ridiculous amount of CG and special effects in his movies, hopefully people won't notice his directing and writing blow.

[Poindexter]

I totally and fully expect to be bashed for this statement.

George Lucas is a freaking Hack.

I have no beef with Star Wars. I understand why it's popular. If you like Star Wars as I know a few of you really, really do (*COUGH* LT *COUGH*) then it is only fair to give credit where credit is do.

Akira Kurisawa wrote and directed "The Hidden Fortress"

Never heard of it? It is the film that Geaorge Lucas copied and used to come up with Star Wars.

http://www.moviediva.com/MD_root/reviewpages/MDHiddenFortress.htm

http://www.greencine.com/webCatalog?id=1127

Every major character in Star Wars has an equal counterpart from the Hidden Fortress. Even the plot is almost an exact match of the 1958 Kurisawa film.

George Lucas didn't write Star Wars plot, he borrowed it and then used flashy special effects that had not been seen before to market it. In that respect he was very smart about it. In fact he expected the first film to be a huge failure.

I'd hate to think what Indiana Jones would have looked like if Spielberg did not have a say in it.

I like Star Wars, but I don't think Lucas should be allowed to direct, or write movies. He should stick with the only thing he's good at. Borrowing others ideas and marketing them.

[MasterShake]

I totally and fully expect to be bashed for this statement.

George Lucas is a freaking Hack.

I have no beef with Star Wars. I understand why it's popular. If you like Star Wars as I know a few of you really, really do (*COUGH* LT *COUGH*) then it is only fair to give credit where credit is do.

Akira Kurisawa wrote and directed "The Hidden Fortress"

Never heard of it? It is the film that Geaorge Lucas copied and used to come up with Star Wars.

http://www.moviediva.com/MD_root/reviewpages/MDHiddenFortress.htm

http://www.greencine.com/webCatalog?id=1127

Every major character in Star Wars has an equal counterpart from the Hidden Fortress. Even the plot is almost an exact match of the 1958 Kurisawa film.

George Lucas didn't write Star Wars plot, he borrowed it and then used flashy special effects that had not been seen before to market it. In that respect he was very smart about it. In fact he expected the first film to be a huge failure.

I'd hate to think what Indiana Jones would have looked like if Spielberg did not have a say in it.

I like Star Wars, but I don't think Lucas should be allowed to direct, or write movies. Heshould stick with the only thing he's good at. Borrowing others ideas and marketing them.

Actually, that movie you mentioned and Star Wars and Lord of the Rings and the Matrix all come from mythology. All of it is based on the heroes journey that was identified by Joseph Campbell in his books on mythology of ancient times. All the characters and stories are the same/seem the same because they are.

They all start with a hero who doesn't want to be a hero but is forced along by things out of his control and then faces a series of challenges (Luke, Neo, Frodo, etc) but he is always helped by a mentor (Obi Wan, Morpheus, Gandalf, etc)

As far as Lucas not writing the story, he did write it as his original story based on common mythological themes so I don't know where you got that. Lucas acknowledges Kurasawa as an influence because Kurasawa was influenced by Joseph Campbell as well. Read his book "The Hero with a Thousand Faces" (synopsis here; http://www.skepticfiles.org/atheist2/hero.htm) if you want to see where Lucas, Kurasawa, Spielberg, the Wachowski Bros, and any other fantasy/sci fi writer gets their influence from before you start blasting people as hacks. I'm not gonna blast you for not liking a movie, but just understand that they are not "ripping off" other movies, but rather putting there own spin on well known mythological themes.

[Skywalker]

I hated it. I was a fan of the original 3, but this one was just lame. Is it just me, or were things that would obliterate a normal person brushed off as no big deal?

IE: The refrigerator scene.

You'd think it would obliterate the refrigerator if it can everything else, like it did the Russian guy's car.

[MasterShake]

You'd think it would obliterate the refrigerator if it can everything else, like it did the Russian guy's car.

Yeah but, then the movie would only be 20 minutes long....

[Poindexter]

Actually, that movie you mentioned and Star Wars and Lord of the Rings and the Matrix all come from mythology. All of it is based on the heroes journey that was identified by Joseph Campbell in his books on mythology of ancient times. All the characters and stories are the same/seem the same because they are.

They all start with a hero who doesn't want to be a hero but is forced along by things out of his control and then faces a series of challenges (Luke, Neo, Frodo, etc) but he is always helped by a mentor (Obi Wan, Morpheus, Gandalf, etc)

As far as Lucas not writing the story, he did write it as his original story based on common mythological themes so I don't know where you got that. Lucas acknowledges Kurasawa as an influence because Kurasawa was influenced by Joseph Campbell as well. Read his book "The Hero with a Thousand Faces" (synopsis here; http://www.skepticfiles.org/atheist2/hero.htm) if you want to see where Lucas, Kurasawa, Spielberg, the Wachowski Bros, and any other fantasy/sci fi writer gets their influence from before you start blasting people as hacks. I'm not gonna blast you for not liking a movie, but just understand that they are not "ripping off" other movies, but rather putting there own spin on well known mythological themes.

I am not sure if you have seen the Criterion version of The Hidden Fortress.

The first thing to note about that DVD is an interview with Lucas who specifically states in his own words, that Star Wars was taken directly from Hidden Fortress.

The second thing to notice watching The Hidden Fortress itself how many scenes are actually identical, or close to identical to scenes in Star Wars.

IE: The opening scene of both movies involve the same "droid/side kick" characters walking through a desert. One character complaining to the other.

that is one of the many examples.

I understand the mythology aspect of story telling. I also understand that most of our modern tales are based on ancient tales. I was not arguing that point.

I just think people give Lucas more credit than he deserves for Star Wars (the film itself.)

I contend that if it was not for Kurisawa's film there would not be a Star Wars series as we know it for people to love today.

I'm not knocking Star Wars. I am a fan of episodes 4,5,6. I just think that it is worth mentioning, and knowing where the movie stems from.

[DevilSpawn]

All I gotta say is- CRAP!!!!! Okay, I'll go on... I almost had to walk out. IMO it is not worth all the hype. And the whole ending? It was all too sci-fi for me considering it was Indy Jones. It was like wathcing a grown up version of Goonies where once they entered the temple I kept expecting One Eyed Willy or for them to break into the truffle shuffle(thanks Diver). Sad sad day... anyone ready for Dark Knight?!?!

You may not know this, but the original script submitted for this movie, by George Lucas, had Martians as the aliens. In fact, it was called something lke Indiana Jones and the Martian Men from The Outer Plateau or something like that. They might as well have called it Indiana Solo.

But Spielberg Lucas said hell no, so they sat on it for nearly two decades.

I have not seen one minute of any Indiana Jones films. Why? Don't know. Don't care. King Solomon's Mines was enough treasure hunting quest crap for me. I won't see this one until I see the first three, probably in two weeks.

And yes, I am ready for Dark Knight.

[Skywalker]

Yeah but, then the movie would only be 20 minutes long....

Then don't include the refrigerator scene at all, what did it have to do with anything anyway?

[RealBronco]

I totally and fully expect to be bashed for this statement.

George Lucas is a freaking Hack.

I have no beef with Star Wars. I understand why it's popular. If you like Star Wars as I know a few of you really, really do (*COUGH* LT *COUGH*) then it is only fair to give credit where credit is do.

Akira Kurisawa wrote and directed "The Hidden Fortress"

Never heard of it? It is the film that Geaorge Lucas copied and used to come up with Star Wars.

http://www.moviediva.com/MD_root/reviewpages/MDHiddenFortress.htm

http://www.greencine.com/webCatalog?id=1127

Every major character in Star Wars has an equal counterpart from the Hidden Fortress. Even the plot is almost an exact match of the 1958 Kurisawa film.

George Lucas didn't write Star Wars plot, he borrowed it and then used flashy special effects that had not been seen before to market it. In that respect he was very smart about it. In fact he expected the first film to be a huge failure.

I'd hate to think what Indiana Jones would have looked like if Spielberg did not have a say in it.

I like Star Wars, but I don't think Lucas should be allowed to direct, or write movies. He should stick with the only thing he's good at. Borrowing others ideas and marketing them.

if we get our CP system back remind me to hit you up.

Actually, that movie you mentioned and Star Wars and Lord of the Rings and the Matrix all come from mythology. All of it is based on the heroes journey that was identified by Joseph Campbell in his books on mythology of ancient times. All the characters and stories are the same/seem the same because they are.

They all start with a hero who doesn't want to be a hero but is forced along by things out of his control and then faces a series of challenges (Luke, Neo, Frodo, etc) but he is always helped by a mentor (Obi Wan, Morpheus, Gandalf, etc)

As far as Lucas not writing the story, he did write it as his original story based on common mythological themes so I don't know where you got that. Lucas acknowledges Kurasawa as an influence because Kurasawa was influenced by Joseph Campbell as well. Read his book "The Hero with a Thousand Faces" (synopsis here; http://www.skepticfiles.org/atheist2/hero.htm) if you want to see where Lucas, Kurasawa, Spielberg, the Wachowski Bros, and any other fantasy/sci fi writer gets their influence from before you start blasting people as hacks. I'm not gonna blast you for not liking a movie, but just understand that they are not "ripping off" other movies, but rather putting there own spin on well known mythological themes.

*cracks knuckles*

good ole joseph campbell.

i would like to begin right off by stating that Poindexter is aboslutely right about George Lucas. His success is entirely based off his utilization of technology and special effects. he is not a writer, he is not a director. we need look no further than Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi to realize that Star Wars under the direction of someone other than Lucas was much better.

secondly (and this will be reiterated in my response to Poindexter's response to you) if the director or writer of a story says he got it from someplace...then it's best not to dispute him.

of course you can view Star Wars and say: "well he got his ideas from much older mythological characters and story arcs, because everyone gets their ideas from there." that's true, so this isn't something you'd want to base your retort on MasterShake.

understand further that i won't necessarily be disagreeing with you, but rather discuss how there's a difference between almost blatently remaking a movie, and using similar story ideas.

what you bring up about Cambell's works is a very great piece of the puzzle that is Hollywood film today...if not story after story after story.

This formula of the hero who doesn't want to be a hero and has to grow into his role via experiences and mentorship, etc is age-old. it has been used, and used and reused again by almost every story (film, novel, tv, play etc) having to do with heroism. in fact you can find the formula in the most unlikely of storylines and films:

i recently reviewed Lars and the Real Girl. you can catch my relating points here:

http://forums.denverbroncos.com/show...postcount=1859

even this film has that formula of the reluctant hero who must overcome personal demons in order to fulfill his heroic role.

each of these films have the basic characters:

the reluctant hero, the threshold guardian, the checkpoints, often portals, doorways, archways, bars, etc. refer to above review for further analysis.

so: when you say that Lucas did not rip off The Hidden Fortress, perhaps you are correct in some way...because really, everyone is ripping off the old ancient stories and figures. i wouldn't go so far as to say he "ripped it off" because he doesn't attempt to deny that he borrowed and even copied from that film. that is the key difference. he blatently copied scenes and characters directly from ONE specific film, not a collection of films or stories to bundle into one. regardless of whether or not the film he borrowed from is also another way to tell the same story, Lucas specifically used that one movie to make his own.

if you go by what you are trying to say Master, then every single movie ever made ripped someone off along the line...which is more or less true. but we know that Gladiator was not influenced by The Hidden Fortress or Star Wars at all, and yet it has every single aspect that makes it a "Joseph Campbell mythological heroic story." i could bury us all in how much symbolism is in Gladiator...but i digress.

also, everyone got up in arms when they realized that the Wachowskis weren't so clever as everyone first thought. when we realized they had just made a sci-fi, special effects heavy film about Jesus Christ battling with Communism and Buddhist ideas, and then you throw in Plato and Aristotle and all the other classical famous philosophical theories, well......you get The Matrix. The difference here is, they did what you say Lucas did...they borrowed ideas from ancient literature, myth, religion and philosophy and made a movie, but they did NOT use a specific film to write their own story the way Lucas did.

also a side note about another famous "idea theif" Quentin Tarrantino would be the first to say that he "borrows" stuff from films all the time. He borrows techniques from specific directors (i.e. his famous "Sergio Leone Close-Up), and he also loads his films with heavy doses of Campbell's material as well.

a personal example: i am currently writing a story based on a dream i had a while back. the best way to describe it is, Pitch Black meets Sphere meets Gulliver's Travels. I won't be borrowing ideas from any of these films, but that's how I describe it best, however, it is heavy laden with Biblical influences. So in a sense, you could say i borrowed from Biblical stories to write my own fantasy story...not to be confused with an allegory of the Bible like Lewis's Narnia. The difference is that i haven't used any specific movie to write my own story, but i have chosen to base it off of religious ideals.

so: basically you're both right, in a sense. Poindexter is right in saying that Lucas only borrowed and basically made The Hidden Fortress over in his own way, including identical scenes and characters, but MasterShake is right in saying they both have the myth, magic and masculinity formula for making an heroic epic story out of.

and to make the point even shorter (joke):

Lucas still can't write or direct very well...and should leave that up to those who can, like Spielberg, Kershner, and Marquand.