Skyrim gameplay trailer

[Hoserman117]

Looks awesome!

http://www.gametrailers.com/video/game-engine-elder-scrolls/710872

[Amari24]

Looks good.. Wish we can see some ME3 gameplay as well.

[canadiansbronco]

sweet did i see some kind of finishing move

[Alastor]

Thank you for the link!

[Amari24]

The crazy thing about that video is, that's all beta gameplay on the 360!! Imagine what the final product will look like, especially on PC.

[Alastor]

The crazy thing about that video is, that's all beta gameplay on the 360!! Imagine what the final product will look like, especially on PC.

The other crazy thing is that aside from eye-candy innovation, if they don't fix the fundamental issues with the game, it'll be getting award after award for graphics, and come out to be a very mediocre game overall - at best.


The graphics look cool. What about the game play? What about the bugs? What about patching things for PS3 and 360 users? What about the leveling system for players? What about the leveling system for items? What about the level system for NPCs? What about the level system for monsters? What about the item dependency issues every character faces in the game?

We could go on.

It's very nice to look at. So is a Ferrari. If the engine doesn't run however, that's all it is; fun to look at.

[Hoserman117]

The other crazy thing is that aside from eye-candy innovation, if they don't fix the fundamental issues with the game, it'll be getting award after award for graphics, and come out to be a very mediocre game overall - at best.


The graphics look cool. What about the game play? What about the bugs? What about patching things for PS3 and 360 users? What about the leveling system for players? What about the leveling system for items? What about the level system for NPCs? What about the level system for monsters? What about the item dependency issues every character faces in the game?

We could go on.

It's very nice to look at. So is a Ferrari. If the engine doesn't run however, that's all it is; fun to look at.

I don't have any worries as far as gameplay goes. Morrowind, Oblivion, and Fallout IMO 100% nailed the gameplay, leveling system, etc.. The only worries I have are in the bugs department. I personally didn't get any game killing bugs in New Vegas, but I know many others did, so hopefully that's fixed.

[Amari24]

I don't have any worries as far as gameplay goes. Morrowind, Oblivion, and Fallout IMO 100% nailed the gameplay, leveling system, etc.. The only worries I have are in the bugs department. I personally didn't get any game killing bugs in New Vegas, but I know many others did, so hopefully that's fixed.

Right. It's supposed to be using an entirely new engine, so hopefully that means it doesn't have as many bugs as New Vegas. The gameplay isn't anything to worry about, it'll be just like any other Elder Scrolls. The thing the Elder Scrolls games have always lacked were great graphics, and visuals, and Skyrim hit that right on the head.

[Alastor]

I don't have any worries as far as gameplay goes. Morrowind, Oblivion, and Fallout IMO 100% nailed the gameplay, leveling system, etc..

That's where we disagree.

[Amari24]

That's where we disagree.

Well... what do you disagree with? I think he's spot on. Look at sequels to past sucessful games, that everyone knew would be a hit.

Halo has always been fantastic, so we all could tell off the bat that Reach was going to be amazing, which it was. Killzone has always been a great FPS, and without knowing much, Killzone 3 turned out amazing.

Morrowind was great, Oblivion was great, the old school Elder Scrolls' were great for what they were, how could you not expect this game to have good gameplay? It's not like they're changing formats here, it's the exact same thing as the other Elder Scrolls' games. Only thing to worry about are glitches and bugs.

[Hoserman117]

That's where we disagree.

Well even if you don't 100% love it you have to at least agree they were solid. They're likely not going to differ much from the formula laid down by those games, which were almost universally agreed upon as very good, unless you just didn't care at all for big RPG's.

[Alastor]

Well... what do you disagree with?

I'll answer this in a second.

Morrowind was great, Oblivion was great, the old school Elder Scrolls' were great for what they were, how could you not expect this game to have good gameplay?

It depends on what you define as great and what exactly "game play" encompasses I think.

It's not like they're changing formats here, it's the exact same thing as the other Elder Scrolls' games. Only thing to worry about are glitches and bugs.

Actually, they're rebuilding the entire program from the ground up. That should produce a better product in this case though.

And again, I think you feel that the game is well balanced and that there aren't any inherent flaws in their game system, when that's really not the case.

Take a look at Bethesdas own boards. Archery doesn't work. One can't survive in Oblivion as an archer. It's tough as any kind of physical character unless exploits are used, but possible. In fact, the character is still item dependent regardless of the character type - which is a flaw in itself - but it gets better if one goes the magic rout.

For most characters though, it's a matter of struggling through and hitting the Blind Moth Temple (where no one fights) over and over again until they get the uber-gear in order to be viable characters at level 45ish or higher. Then again once they have the uber gear they're damn near invincible too. There doesn't seem to be a way to be in the middle very easily.

That's poor game design.

I already listed a ton of issues above that are pretty major issues. You guys chose to ignore them or consider them minor. They're really not minor though. They may have been minor to your experience because of the character you played or from how you played, but they're really not minor. They're significant, and there's more than I listed.

Well even if you don't 100% love it you have to at least agree they were solid.

No, I really don't.

I think the game played nicely and had some interesting aspects. As a game system however, it's really not very well constructed.

[Hoserman117]

Actually, they're rebuilding the entire program from the ground up. That should produce a better product in this case though.

And again, I think you feel that the game is well balanced and that there aren't any inherent flaws in their game system, when that's really not the case.

Take a look at Bethesdas own boards. Archery doesn't work. One can't survive in Oblivion as an archer. It's tough as any kind of physical character unless exploits are used, but possible. In fact, the character is still item dependent regardless of the character type - which is a flaw in itself - but it gets better if one goes the magic rout.

For most characters though, it's a matter of struggling through and hitting the Blind Moth Temple (where no one fights) over and over again until they get the uber-gear in order to be viable characters at level 45ish or higher. Then again once they have the uber gear they're damn near invincible too. There doesn't seem to be a way to be in the middle very easily.

That's poor game design.

I already listed a ton of issues above that are pretty major issues. You guys chose to ignore them or consider them minor. They're really not minor though. They may have been minor to your experience because of the character you played or from how you played, but they're really not minor. They're significant, and there's more than I listed.

I've made it through the game several times with several different types of characters, and while I agree it was more difficult getting through as an archer, it was still doable. You can't get through the game with ONLY archery (that wouldn't make much sense), you need to become effective with short blades for up close combat, but overall as a rogue you can easily get through the game.

The game might be more biased in terms of favoring better items over your skills, but I don't see such a glaring flaw with that. I see how some people could find it to be an issue, but I don't really find it to be that big.

[Alastor]

I've made it through the game several times with several different types of characters, and while I agree it was more difficult getting through as an archer, it was still doable. You can't get through the game with ONLY archery (that wouldn't make much sense), you need to become effective with short blades for up close combat, but overall as a rogue you can easily get through the game.

The game might be more biased in terms of favoring better items over your skills, but I don't see such a glaring flaw with that. I see how some people could find it to be an issue, but I don't really find it to be that big.

Do this, and I'm serious.

Take an archer with a longsword. Without using duplication tricks, magic, or some of the exploits such as 101% chameleon or reflection suits, and go clear a goblin dungeon at level 45.

For a real kick, do it without an optimized character (one that leveled as efficiently as possible).

Bethesda itself went through and did it - and then rapidly apologized and said they'd work on it.

Your opinion differs from their findings. I'd encourage you to actually try it. Without the dupe trick or exploits, it's very tedious - and quite the opposite of productive or fun.

Here's a post I made on the Bethesda boards about it, which pretty universally got acknowledged with, "Yeah, it's broken. Has been for a long time. They're working on it."

I'm playing Oblivion. I have a level 30 Bosmer. I have 98 in Marskman, and my agility is 112 (enhancements).

It'd be pretty difficult to find a better archer.

I did an experiment.

I went to Cann in the Shivering Isles (Mania side).

It's a large dungeon, so I felt it would be good for testing.

I took a Perfect Amber Bow. I took 200 amber arrows, but without an enchantment on them. They're the level 23+ type, but with no damage health. The reason I took non-enchanted arrows is because I have never found a matrix for amber arrows. Even if I did, 25 isn't going to last long. Thus, normal amber arrows.

I fully charged my bow with soul gems. Completely. my bow holds 4150 magic points. It uses 55 every time it fires. A full charge will provide me with 75 shots.

My goal was relatively simple. I wanted to count the number of arrows it took for me to kill each creature as well as counting the number of creatures killed. I also wanted to see how many arrows I generally managed to recover.

I have the best basic bow amber can buy. It's even already enchanted! I am two points shy of the best possible marksmanship skill. I have the best unenchanted arrows in the game.

Here were my results:

I killed 53 creatures. Most were conjurers so they were nice and soft. Everything else was a Hunger - also not particularly tough.


I fired 212 times.

I started with 200 arrows. I ended with 91.

This would indicate a recovery rate of "about half" for the arrows. It came out to be 45%. For the record, I scoured the place for arrows too. The nice thing about amber arrows is that if they are present, you can definitely see them easily. Even so, I only managed a 45% recovery rate.

It cost me slightly more than 4 amber in arrows. However, I only recovered 2 amber from the entire dungeon. This left me at an amber deficit of 2.

It also cost me 11,660 magic points to keep the bow charged. In fact, I ran out of the charge along with several soul gems before I even finished the halfway point of the second area of this dungeon. I had to cut out to return to town, recharge the bow and buy additional soul gems to carry with me into the dungeon in order to complete it. Even after purchasing every soul gem in Bliss, I only barely finished the dungeon. This is 8 grand soul gems worth of magic.

When the hunt was over, however, I had only acquired 1 greater, 1 grand, and 3 lesser soul gems. This left me with a magic deficit of 7960 magic points.

I also consumed 5 homemade healing potions in the process - not to mention running around a dungeon like a kitten on PCP because I had to shoot and retreat from the hordes of conjurers that would see me if they were in a pack and I tried to pick one off.

This is a conjurer dungeon. Heretics.

I've also gone into dungeons such as Milchar, which is composed of standard monsters. While the amber yield there is enough to sustain the hunts, it's still somewhat close. I generally wind up with a massive magic point deficit as well. If I run into necros or undead, it gets very ugly very quickly.

It's honestly kind of... This kind of sucks.


The reason I tracked all this, posted all this, and wrote all this isn't just to whine and complain. That's not the point at all, actually, as I long ago gave up the idea of being an "archer type" in Oblivion.

Skyrim is announced for this November though, and my hope among hopes is that Bethesda really, truly discovers that not everyone who plays their game wants to be a sorcerer. Please make that possible in the next one.

There's one in-depth example of where I think you guys are off base, or simply haven't noticed the deficiencies in the game's design.

Archery's not the only one, however.


If this were a table-top RPG, either the entire group would play as mages, or they'd all stop playing. This game is not balanced, and it's not well designed.

Add to it the complications with alchemy that almost every character HAS to have to survive, that hiding doesn't work as intended, that magic is considerably more powerful than any amount of physical attacks...

And again, "Among other issues."

Oblivion is a neat game. It's innovative in concept and it's certainly fun to look at. From a game design standpoint however, it was not very good.

My hopes for Skyrim are that this improves. That's the hope for Bethesda as well, they've been pretty open about working really hard on that facet of the game as well as just how pretty it looks.

[Bernie24]

Take a look at Bethesdas own boards. Archery doesn't work. One can't survive in Oblivion as an archer. It's tough as any kind of physical character unless exploits are used, but possible. In fact, the character is still item dependent regardless of the character type - which is a flaw in itself - but it gets better if one goes the magic rout.

What are you talking about I played average difficulty and did work as an archer. Wood Elf Archer was such a ninja I killed most stuff 1-2 shots with sneak bonus.