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  • #16
    Originally posted by SBboundBRONCOS View Post
    do not like,

    how would you borrow games? trade em in? delete old games but still have them? play older gen games that you have on disc

    if its like a thumb drive then it would be ok if it use as much as you want on as many consoles as you want
    That's the point, you won't be able to. This is a move to fight piracy with net based DRM.

    Originally posted by Amari24 View Post
    Just like the rumor about the 720 blocking used games, not happening. Seriously people, just think here for 10 seconds. Can you really see Microsoft announcing (at E3 no less) that their next system has no disc drive? They would get boo'd off the stage so fast.
    If Microsoft does it, every other console will too. Developers will not make games for WiiU and PS4 if they know their games are less likely to be pirated on xbox.

    Originally posted by Amari24 View Post
    Also, a move like this would just cost us even more money. We're going to need somewhere to store all of those games, right? 1TB SSD? That sounds feasible.

    Oh wait. Microsoft is already charging us $130 for a 250GB 360 HDD. Imagine the price-tag they would stamp on a 1TB SSD for the 720. Just thinking about it makes me cringe. M$...
    Every gaming/technology company has proven time and time again that they are not concerned with the consumer's pocket. Like //y pointed out, everything is going cloud. Xbox already has cloud saves as a beta for the next step. Wouldn't be surprised if LIVE 720 is $100/year and you get 500GB - 1TB of cloud space.

    Originally posted by Bronco51 View Post
    I thought they were going to include a blu ray player in the next version. Do they think people will only stream movies? Not a wise choice. Physical media still has a place among a lot of parents who will be buying stuff for their kids.
    This is the only part that had me wondering. I would assume it would be an optional inclusion if the other rumors are true. Similar maybe to the external HD-DVD drive. They were going to release a Blu-Ray peripheral but scrapped that project for the 360.


    Personally I don't like the idea very much. I'm proud to display my game collection from Colecovision to 360. Just more but expected moves by the gaming/technology industry to fleece its customers under the guise of the future.

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    • #17
      Whatever Microsoft wants to do, Sony should do the opposite and the next gen war will be a blow out. Digital distribution only will be awful
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      2013,2014, and 2015 Adopt a Bronco: Champ Bailey, Marvin Austin and Matt Paradis

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      • #18
        Originally posted by #87Birdman View Post
        Because if that is the case it is a very bad move since not everyone has internet or maybe not internet that can download it at a decent speed.
        I think this is the best case AGAINST digital distribution. High speed internet tends to come at ridiculous costs as well that can vary wildly from company to company (A special shout-out to the most hated #*(#*&$)@)( **#@$#s in the world at Time Warner Cable!). On top of that I believe there are cable companies that have cable plans that set limits on how much data gets downloaded and every time you download something past that point you're paying extra (think cell phone data plans). As for speed you'd be getting about 1 MB per second, so unless you are on dial up, I don't think speed would be a problem.

        Originally posted by #87Birdman View Post
        Or would it be like a memory card that transfer the game to your system making it a one time use. And if this is the case what happens when you fill up the memory, do you delete the old ones, and then have no way to get them back?? Or what if you have 2 systems do you have to get the game twice??
        I imagine it would be similar to Steam on the PC. When you purchase a game it is added to your library. You can then download/install the game at will, if you uninstall it you can download it again at any point you want as it will be in your library that is associated with some sort of account.

        Originally posted by Hoserman117 View Post
        There's no real way to tell yet, but what would make the most sense to me is a solid state drive where you can load a large number of games onto it. I would also imagine they could make it large enough where filling it up wouldn't be that big of an issue. I'm sure they could roll out a 500GB-1TB solid state drive for a reasonable price.
        As much as I would LOVE to see this (the speed repercussions would be huge, and prices for SSD's would drop so darn quickly).

        For some perspective:

        120GB SSD's bottom out at about $150 at Newegg.com.



        Originally posted by SBboundBRONCOS View Post
        do not like,

        how would you borrow games? trade em in? delete old games but still have them? play older gen games that you have on disc

        if its like a thumb drive then it would be ok if it use as much as you want on as many consoles as you want
        theMileHighGuy covered pretty much all of this above. I would add though, that this is essentially a money grab by removing middle-men like Gamestop and Wal-Mart etc. Thus increasing the provider of the contents (most likely Microsoft) overall take.

        Originally posted by // / yardo View Post
        I didn't really read the article but everything is moving to the cloud. Future data concepts are that we will no longer maintain our own data locally and "ownership" will be defined in fine text in terms of service contracts.

        I'm sure they will have some sort of cache system on-board where people without internet service can access games, etc. Or a person that does not want to utilize the cloud based service can purchase a SSD drive.

        There are companies that are developing desktop clients that will only exist in the cloud but will be completely transparent to the user. I'm sure Microsoft sees the value in this and is exploiting it to the fullest. Ultimately it brings overhead cost of the device down, they can sell if for a little cheaper AND they can sell their cloud/membership type services.

        It's actually a very good business model. Sell services not products. Services bring in reoccurring money where products are typically a one time purchase.
        Gaming as a service, the future is terrifying.

        Originally posted by DenverBlood View Post
        Call me old fashioned but I like having a video game shelf with all my games on it to look through.
        Are you telling me you actually want tangible evidence that you purchased something with your hard earned money? I shun you sir! I shun you and banish you back to the cesspits of common sense from which you came!

        Seriously though, I had the exact same attitude. However, digital distribution has been great to me. I don't need to worry about CD keys and crud like that anymore as Steam stores them all. You will need to consider it as not buying the game, but buying the experience of the game...Yes, there is a difference.

        Originally posted by Amari24 View Post
        Just like the rumor about the 720 blocking used games, not happening. Seriously people, just think here for 10 seconds. Can you really see Microsoft announcing (at E3 no less) that their next system has no disc drive? They would get boo'd off the stage so fast.
        I'm not so sure you console types know what happened when that whole "online pass" thing was being introduced. That was the answer for what could be done about used games THIS generation. Digital distribution could be the answer to used games the in the NEXT generation.

        Originally posted by Bronco51 View Post
        I thought they were going to include a blu ray player in the next version. Do they think people will only stream movies? Not a wise choice. Physical media still has a place among a lot of parents who will be buying stuff for their kids.
        Physical media is still the way to go for movies. However, blu-ray players are dirt cheap these days, and who wants to pay Sony to use their technology?

        You can get a blu-ray player for less than $50 at Newegg.com.

        Originally posted by theMileHighGuy View Post
        Every gaming/technology company has proven time and time again that they are not concerned with the consumer's pocket. Like //y pointed out, everything is going cloud. Xbox already has cloud saves as a beta for the next step. Wouldn't be surprised if LIVE 720 is $100/year and you get 500GB - 1TB of cloud space.
        Just for the record, there is one company that to this day has been putting out games with no DRM and updates (significant ones that add things, not just bug fixes) their games for years and that is Stardock.

        Galactic Civilizations 2 got me through college round 2.

        Originally posted by roushmartin6 View Post
        Whatever Microsoft wants to do, Sony should do the opposite and the next gen war will be a blow out. Digital distribution only will be awful
        As much as I love digital distribution, I'm terrified what M$ and Sony might do to it. I think digital distribution would be exclusive to the console maker. Meaning a complete monopoly, on products that there are no physical supply and demand issues to fluctuate prices. For instance Steam didn't really have "sales" before there was competition in the digital download market...and Valve are "good guys." With M$ in charge the gaming community would essentially turn into a real life reproduction of 1984 (The book, not the year).
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        • #19
          Originally posted by Puddleglum View Post
          I think this is the best case AGAINST digital distribution. High speed internet tends to come at ridiculous costs as well that can vary wildly from company to company (A special shout-out to the most hated #*(#*&$)@)( **#@$#s in the world at Time Warner Cable!). On top of that I believe there are cable companies that have cable plans that set limits on how much data gets downloaded and every time you download something past that point you're paying extra (think cell phone data plans). As for speed you'd be getting about 1 MB per second, so unless you are on dial up, I don't think speed would be a problem.



          I imagine it would be similar to Steam on the PC. When you purchase a game it is added to your library. You can then download/install the game at will, if you uninstall it you can download it again at any point you want as it will be in your library that is associated with some sort of account.



          As much as I would LOVE to see this (the speed repercussions would be huge, and prices for SSD's would drop so darn quickly).

          For some perspective:

          120GB SSD's bottom out at about $150 at Newegg.com.





          theMileHighGuy covered pretty much all of this above. I would add though, that this is essentially a money grab by removing middle-men like Gamestop and Wal-Mart etc. Thus increasing the provider of the contents (most likely Microsoft) overall take.



          Gaming as a service, the future is terrifying.



          Are you telling me you actually want tangible evidence that you purchased something with your hard earned money? I shun you sir! I shun you and banish you back to the cesspits of common sense from which you came!

          Seriously though, I had the exact same attitude. However, digital distribution has been great to me. I don't need to worry about CD keys and crud like that anymore as Steam stores them all. You will need to consider it as not buying the game, but buying the experience of the game...Yes, there is a difference.



          I'm not so sure you console types know what happened when that whole "online pass" thing was being introduced. That was the answer for what could be done about used games THIS generation. Digital distribution could be the answer to used games the in the NEXT generation.



          Physical media is still the way to go for movies. However, blu-ray players are dirt cheap these days, and who wants to pay Sony to use their technology?

          You can get a blu-ray player for less than $50 at Newegg.com.



          Just for the record, there is one company that to this day has been putting out games with no DRM and updates (significant ones that add things, not just bug fixes) their games for years and that is Stardock.

          Galactic Civilizations 2 got me through college round 2.



          As much as I love digital distribution, I'm terrified what M$ and Sony might do to it. I think digital distribution would be exclusive to the console maker. Meaning a complete monopoly, on products that there are no physical supply and demand issues to fluctuate prices. For instance Steam didn't really have "sales" before there was competition in the digital download market...and Valve are "good guys." With M$ in charge the gaming community would essentially turn into a real life reproduction of 1984 (The book, not the year).
          Not all soccer moms are hip to newegg to find deals. One stop shopping is the ideal. And since blu ray is the only way to have a hi def physical disc, they would be foolish not to include it. They would lose more sales than gain by not having it next gen. They could actually stick it to Sony by including it and outsell them while they're at it.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Puddleglum View Post
            I'm not so sure you console types know what happened when that whole "online pass" thing was being introduced. That was the answer for what could be done about used games THIS generation. Digital distribution could be the answer to used games the in the NEXT generation.



            Physical media is still the way to go for movies. However, blu-ray players are dirt cheap these days, and who wants to pay Sony to use their technology?

            You can get a blu-ray player for less than $50 at Newegg.
            We both know those aren't the same thing. The online pass practice came out of nowhere and only started to become a standard about 2 years ago. If you even consider it a standard. It's not like you HAVE to buy an online pass, they're completely optional. If you bought new as I did, or only play SP, the online passes didn't do jack. Once EVERY game (SP or MP) uses them, then it would be a legit threat to used games.

            DD is essentially forcing the consumer to give up their physical media preference. Sony learned this the hard way, as would M$ if they're that dumb. As I've said, there's ZERO chance the 720, Wii U, or PS4 won't be compatible with a physical media of some sort. Go watch Sony's 2006 E3 Conference, Nintendo '09, or Microsoft 2011. TERRIBLE.

            Announcing a no-disc drive console in front of the gaming world would be a disaster at this point in time. Something like that you slowly phase in like Sony is doing with the Vita. You have physical and DD coincide before making DD a standard form of game distribution for your system.

            And the Blu Ray patent is split up between 19 different companies. It's not all Sony. Besides, M$ spends money on timed-exclusive DLC. Why not pay to use Blu Ray (which is what I think they'll use in the end)?

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Bronco51 View Post
              Not all soccer moms are hip to newegg to find deals. One stop shopping is the ideal. And since blu ray is the only way to have a hi def physical disc, they would be foolish not to include it. They would lose more sales than gain by not having it next gen. They could actually stick it to Sony by including it and outsell them while they're at it.
              Oh I'd agree, in 1st world nations it would be bothersome at best but they'd be shooting themselves in the foot in other countries. Considering that the Blu-Ray functionality seems to be the main selling point of a PS# they would be crazy to not take that advantage from Sony as you said.

              Originally posted by Amari24 View Post
              We both know those aren't the same thing. The online pass practice came out of nowhere and only started to become a standard about 2 years ago. If you even consider it a standard. It's not like you HAVE to buy an online pass, they're completely optional. If you bought new as I did, or only play SP, the online passes didn't do jack. Once EVERY game (SP or MP) uses them, then it would be a legit threat to used games.
              It's a form of DRM, give a publisher an inch on DRM and they will walk all over you. It was the first DRM of any kind on a console to my knowledge, and so it is significant.

              Originally posted by Amari24 View Post
              DD is essentially forcing the consumer to give up their physical media preference. Sony learned this the hard way, as would M$ if they're that dumb. As I've said, there's ZERO chance the 720, Wii U, or PS4 won't be compatible with a physical media of some sort. Go watch Sony's 2006 E3 Conference, Nintendo '09, or Microsoft 2011. TERRIBLE.
              As I said earlier, at first I did not like digital downloads, for a time I downloaded stuff and burn them to disc just to be safe. I didn't want to rely on some 3rd party. However I had to buy multiple copies of games because I lost CD keys or the discs themselves(heck it's a miracle some of those discs even work they are so scratched up.

              Digital download allows me to forget about all that. The game is there for me to download whenever I want, as many times as I want (there are some extra DRM exceptions to that). I don't waste gas and time driving to X to buy the game and driving back. I can open steam and 4 clicks later I'm downloading the game and go about my business until it finishes.

              Amari I know, you're a big gamer. I know you've done those midnight game releases. Wouldn't you rather pre download a game and then AT midnight be able to start playing it?

              Originally posted by Amari24 View Post
              Announcing a no-disc drive console in front of the gaming world would be a disaster at this point in time. Something like that you slowly phase in like Sony is doing with the Vita. You have physical and DD coincide before making DD a standard form of game distribution for your system.
              Don't get me wrong, that's not the way I said I would do it. I didn't even say it was a good idea. I was talking about merits of it.

              I think there is a way that M$ can have their evil cake and eat it too. Reduce used sales, increase new copies sold, and reduce production costs.

              There will be a disc drive, but M$ will also be going into digital distribution. Each console owner will have an "account" associated with them. When you buy a game it comes with a code...that will lock the game to your account (making the disc worthless to anyone but you, and to you it's useful just so you don't have to download it). You won't NEED to lock it to your account to play it (covering individuals without steady high speed internet connections) but there will be "benefits" to doing so. You'll get extra X, Y, and Z (these will be substantial things, but were always part of the game and were removed for this draconian DRM). When you consider "sales" on the digital distribution marketplace this will increasingly strangle the used game market, particularly in developed nations.

              Just hope your M$ overlords are...magnanimous.

              Last edited by Puddleglum; 03-15-2012, 08:36 PM.
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              • #22
                Originally posted by CoryWinget81 View Post
                ....aaaaand Gamestop goes out of business, or very close.
                Only thing I can think of, and this goes along with people who are not hooked up to the internet and what not is if game stores and MS have some sort of a "download" station where you bring a card in and download it to the card and transfer it to your xbox.

                Yes it will be a pain in the arse.

                Nintendo did some similar things with content for games for DS.
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