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  • Netflix "Making a Murderer" - **Spoilers**

    I'm surprised this hasn't been posted here yet ....

    I just finished the Doc-Series put out by Netflix "Making a Murderer".

    The story follows the timeline of a Wisconsin man, Steven Avery, over a span of about 10 years during his battle with the legal system in a small town atmosphere. Steven was wrongly convicted in the early 80's and spent 18 years in Wisconsin prison for an alleged rape. After his release Steven plans on suing the town and sheriffs office that took part in the investigation. During all of these proceedings, Steven is then suspected in the murder of a missing Wisconsin woman, which is where the doc-series picks up.

    Steven Avery and his Nephew Brendan Dassey are currently serving life setences in Wisconsin State Prisons for their alleged role in the murder of a the woman, Teresa Halbach. The doc series follows the initial investigation and subsequently the trial of both parties involved in the crimes.

    If you have watched it, what are your thoughts?

    As for me .... I am under the impression that this guy was railroaded, setup and framed so that he wouldn't have the ability to sink the town and those involved in his wrongful conviction in which he lost 18 years of his life. I understand that the series was geared towards his innocence and that there is always 2 sides to the story but I feel the producers did a pretty good job of presenting all of the major evidence in the case as best they could.

    The one item that I still cannot understand is, if this woman was killed as they say she was, shackled to the bed, raped, stabbed, beaten and then her throat slit .... how in the world was there no DNA evidence to support that theory? If someone's throat is slit and they are stabbed as the prosecutuion attests ... there would surely be some sort of DNA evidence left behind and there wasn't!! After nearly 8 months of investigation, the ONLY DNA evidence that connected Avery and Dassey to the murder was a lone bullet found in the garage which contained DNA of the victim?

    The doc-series did leave out one piece of evidence that I thought was strange, apparently they found Avery's "sweat DNA" under the hood of the victims car .... not entirely sure that it supports their murder theory but it is odd that it was found. The only thing I can come up with is that maybe she had car troubles while she was there on his property and Avery tried to help her with the problem.
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  • #2
    Binge watched the entire series in 3 days lol.

    I share many of the same thoughts and feelings you have about Avery and his innocence. Looking at what was presented, the mans history with the county, it's hard not to think that he was set up.

    I felt really bad for Avery, but felt more for Dassey. Seemed like that kid was taken advantage of to no end given his low IQ/intelligence.

    I've also read relevant information was not aired in the show. I don't know if it would change my mind on Avery's innocence. Seemed like the DA was a scumbag from the beginning, even further supported by the sexting scandal shared in one of the last episodes.
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    • #3
      I haven't read anything in this thread, but I"ve seen a few things in online ramblings and meanderings. I'll have to check it out.
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      • #4
        Originally posted by TH3JUICEMAN View Post
        Binge watched the entire series in 3 days lol.

        I share many of the same thoughts and feelings you have about Avery and his innocence. Looking at what was presented, the mans history with the county, it's hard not to think that he was set up.

        I felt really bad for Avery, but felt more for Dassey. Seemed like that kid was taken advantage of to no end given his low IQ/intelligence.

        I've also read relevant information was not aired in the show. I don't know if it would change my mind on Avery's innocence. Seemed like the DA was a scumbag from the beginning, even further supported by the sexting scandal shared in one of the last episodes.
        Yeah you are right ... Dassey really got the short end of the stick in the whole situation, he was used and abused solely to put his uncle away and at the same time he ended up implicating himself in the whole situation and was put away for life. Very sad situation to say the least.

        I hear though that a Chicago Based law firm might be picking up his case again to try and at very least get him another trial if not completely released.

        Originally posted by ebsoria View Post
        I haven't read anything in this thread, but I"ve seen a few things in online ramblings and meanderings. I'll have to check it out.
        It's definitely worth a watch, obviously as with many documentaries you go in understanding that it will probably be pretty one sided when it comes to certain items but I feel that the producers did a pretty good job at running the story as it really occured. In the end, from what I've read there was some information that was left out of the doc-series but according to the producers that information also had no bearing on the end results of the case ... take that for what it's worth.


        I guess in the end, no one will probably ever know what happened on that property or what happened to the victim but it's just sad that our justice system is still so flawed that something like this could occur in the modern age.
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        • #5
          This was a very publicized local case here in Wisconsin. There was a lot of evidence for the prosecution that was not brought up in the documentary.

          For instance, the "innocent" prank where a cat was thrown over a fire, the cat was actually doused in gasoline before being thrown.

          The documentary focuses on the blood evidence which they say was planted, but Avery's DNA from sweat was found inside the hood and on the battery cable of the SUV, the same SUV Avery claimed was driven off his property.

          Teresa Halbach had been to the Avery about a month ealier, where she was greeted by Avery wearing nothing but a towel. Halbach was so creeped out by the incident, she told her employer that she never wanted to return.

          Avery later contacted Teresa about selling the van, but did so anonomously by using *67 to hide his number because he had been told she would not go to his property.

          The bullets found in Avery's garage which had Teresa's DNA were fired from a .22 rifle which was in Avery's trailer and belonged to him.

          Avery had drawn pictures of a torture chamber, similar to what Dassey had described, while he was incarcerrated for the rape he didn't commit.

          He also told fellow inmates that the best way to destroy evidence was to burn the body.

          He had recently purchased hand cuffs and leg irons.


          You have to remeber that Avery wasn't the victim, it was a young woman by the name of Teresa Halbach.
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          • #6
            Originally posted by Thors Hammer View Post
            This was a very publicized local case here in Wisconsin. There was a lot of evidence for the prosecution that was not brought up in the documentary.
            Yes I understand that there was a lot of evidence that was glossed over in the doc-series but this was explained that some of the below items were not relevant to the case or had no bearing on the outcome of the case and therfore were simply left out to allow for deeper examination into the evidence that was relevant to the case/outcome.

            Originally posted by Thors Hammer View Post
            For instance, the "innocent" prank where a cat was thrown over a fire, the cat was actually doused in gasoline before being thrown.
            no relevance to the case, no reason to be included. I know many people believe that "serial killers" start off their careers using animals and this may be true but again, this incident, which happened some 25-30 years prior had no relevance to the case at hand ... including being able to use this to attest to the type of person Avery was.

            Originally posted by Thors Hammer View Post
            The documentary focuses on the blood evidence which they say was planted, but Avery's DNA from sweat was found inside the hood and on the battery cable of the SUV, the same SUV Avery claimed was driven off his property.
            This is the one piece I do not understand how/why it was left out of the doc-series. The ONLY thing I can come up with not knowing anything about the case is that maybe Halbach had car troubles and since she was at an "auto salvage" yard maybe Avery tried to help her with something? I don't know ... like I said in my original post, this is the only item I heard that was left out that made me scratch my head and ask why.

            Originally posted by Thors Hammer View Post
            Teresa Halbach had been to the Avery about a month ealier, where she was greeted by Avery wearing nothing but a towel. Halbach was so creeped out by the incident, she told her employer that she never wanted to return.
            Meh, this has happend to me several times ... you get out of the shower, BING goes the doorbell and you run out to grab it! ... luckily in my case it was always someone trying to push religion on me so I just didn't answer the door.

            Originally posted by Thors Hammer View Post
            Avery later contacted Teresa about selling the van, but did so anonomously by using *67 to hide his number because he had been told she would not go to his property.
            This strikes me as odd in a few ways. First, if I'm calling to get something listed in Auto-Trader why would I be calling the photographer directly to setup any appointments instead of calling the actual business. Second, Avery had her phone number, which leads me to believe at some point between meeting 1 and the subsequential encounters, she gave him her phone number to contact her. So did she give him her number after she was so creeped out by him in a towel or ??????

            Originally posted by Thors Hammer View Post
            The bullets found in Avery's garage which had Teresa's DNA were fired from a .22 rifle which was in Avery's trailer and belonged to him.
            Ahh yes, the Bullet ... the bullet that magically appeared after nearly 5 months of investigation and countless numbers of searches. The bullet that had no Blood DNA on it but miraculously was soaked in a solution that was able to pull DNA from the bullet which was a match to Halbach. Later they found that the official who ran the DNA test intially compromised the test by introducing her DNA into the tests which should have rendered the test inconclusive at the time but alas, the official then filed for a rare exception that would allow the test to stand because it was her "opinion" that the actual tests on the bullet were not compromised.

            Originally posted by Thors Hammer View Post
            Avery had drawn pictures of a torture chamber, similar to what Dassey had described, while he was incarcerrated for the rape he didn't commit.
            I once drew a picture of a guillotine with a woman laying down on the bench about to put her head into the guillotine hole .... this doesn't mean I have a guillotine in my basement for actual use.

            Originally posted by Thors Hammer View Post
            He also told fellow inmates that the best way to destroy evidence was to burn the body.
            I told my neighbor once that if I ever had to get rid of a body I would go Gator hunting, using the body parts as bait! He laughed, I laughed ... it was a tall tale!

            Originally posted by Thors Hammer View Post
            He had recently purchased hand cuffs and leg irons.
            Niether of which had any trace DNA evidence on them. Maybe he was a freak in the sheets and was into that kind of thing? who are we to judge!


            Originally posted by Thors Hammer View Post
            You have to remeber that Avery wasn't the victim, it was a young woman by the name of Teresa Halbach.
            I think the saddest part of all this is that there is 3 vicitims and a large portion of the Wisonsin population was led to believe the same thing you said, that Avery was a monster and commited this horrible crime ... but really, step back and take a look at the details of the crime as presented by the DA and then ask yourself one major question ...

            Where is the evidence? i.e. Blood???? - Halbach was, as Dassey initially claimed, bound & tortured, raped, stabbed, beaten and her throat slit, yet there is not one sliver of blood DNA evidence to be found within Avery's trailer or his garage. The only physical DNA evidence linking Halbach to that property was that Bullet, which again did not contain Blood DNA.

            As for the Bullet ... yes the bullet matched a bullet from Avery's .22 CAL rifle he had! Let's not forget that they Avery's lived in a pretty rural area, on 40 acres of land ... I'm sure at some point, that .22 CAL had been fired on property at something, which would in turn leave a bullet laying around. I have a friend, who has 5 acres of property here in Florida, at any time I could drive to his house and rummage around the yard for 10 minutes and find a spent casing and a bullet to match one of his guns! I think it's far fetched to believe that the same thing couldn't have occured to Avery. Those officers has a whole lot of private time on that property which could have been used to "find" what they needed in order to set this plan in motion.
            Last edited by Jermz79; 01-11-2016, 12:22 PM.
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            • #7
              Binged in two days. Need to process it though. From the onset, looks like a railroad. Especially with Brendan in there... who knows?! We may NEVER fully know.
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              • #8
                Originally posted by ebsoria View Post
                Binged in two days. Need to process it though. From the onset, looks like a railroad. Especially with Brendan in there... who knows?! We may NEVER fully know.
                There is so much more information on the ol' Innerwebz too, some of which of course paints a picture of him being guilty. Apparently one of the local reporters that was covering the case has released a podcast that outlines all of the evidence that was left out of the doc-series.

                There are new theories of who actually committed the murder and who/how/why it was all "covered up".

                One that I read that is the most feasible in my mind is that Avery's Brother in Law and Brendan Dassey's Brother, Steve Tadyc and Blaine Dassey, were actually the ones to kill Halbach and frame Avery. During testimony in the case, both Tadyc and Blaine Dassey were the only ones that could alibi each other for their whereabouts when the murder supposedly took place. Tadyc was quick to throw his brother in law under the bus during the investigation and both Tadyc and Blaine Dassey would have had the same access to the Avery Salvage lot that Avery himself would have had.

                As you said though, we probably will never know what truly happened to that woman!
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                • #9
                  I binged this last weekend. It really is an amazing documentary. I intended on watching an episode or two, but within 2 days, I had watched the whole thing.

                  When I first finished the documentary, I was pretty convinced that Steven Avery was innocent and framed. There were just too many questions about that Manitowoc Sheriff's department.

                  Since then, I've spent some time on the MaM reddit page, and read through some of the more complete transcripts, and I'm starting to change my mind again.

                  Unfortunately, I don't think we'll ever know exactly what happened. However, the main point of Making A Murder was to shed some light on the judiciary system, which most of us would agree is very flawed.

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                  • #10
                    I binge watched it as well. Really sad story. From the evidence that was produced I think Avery was innocent of killing her the way the DA said it went down. Somebody knows what happen and when 30 plus million is on the table I wouldn't be surprised what anyone would do.
                    I believe the view of the Avery's in that community has allowed them to move on believing that Avery either did it and if not probably did something wrong that he got away with so its ok. Scary to think there may be a murderer out there still.
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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Jermz79 View Post
                      Yes I understand that there was a lot of evidence that was glossed over in the doc-series but this was explained that some of the below items were not relevant to the case or had no bearing on the outcome of the case and therfore were simply left out to allow for deeper examination into the evidence that was relevant to the case/outcome.



                      no relevance to the case, no reason to be included. I know many people believe that "serial killers" start off their careers using animals and this may be true but again, this incident, which happened some 25-30 years prior had no relevance to the case at hand ... including being able to use this to attest to the type of person Avery was.



                      This is the one piece I do not understand how/why it was left out of the doc-series. The ONLY thing I can come up with not knowing anything about the case is that maybe Halbach had car troubles and since she was at an "auto salvage" yard maybe Avery tried to help her with something? I don't know ... like I said in my original post, this is the only item I heard that was left out that made me scratch my head and ask why.



                      Meh, this has happend to me several times ... you get out of the shower, BING goes the doorbell and you run out to grab it! ... luckily in my case it was always someone trying to push religion on me so I just didn't answer the door.



                      This strikes me as odd in a few ways. First, if I'm calling to get something listed in Auto-Trader why would I be calling the photographer directly to setup any appointments instead of calling the actual business. Second, Avery had her phone number, which leads me to believe at some point between meeting 1 and the subsequential encounters, she gave him her phone number to contact her. So did she give him her number after she was so creeped out by him in a towel or ??????



                      Ahh yes, the Bullet ... the bullet that magically appeared after nearly 5 months of investigation and countless numbers of searches. The bullet that had no Blood DNA on it but miraculously was soaked in a solution that was able to pull DNA from the bullet which was a match to Halbach. Later they found that the official who ran the DNA test intially compromised the test by introducing her DNA into the tests which should have rendered the test inconclusive at the time but alas, the official then filed for a rare exception that would allow the test to stand because it was her "opinion" that the actual tests on the bullet were not compromised.



                      I once drew a picture of a guillotine with a woman laying down on the bench about to put her head into the guillotine hole .... this doesn't mean I have a guillotine in my basement for actual use.



                      I told my neighbor once that if I ever had to get rid of a body I would go Gator hunting, using the body parts as bait! He laughed, I laughed ... it was a tall tale!



                      Niether of which had any trace DNA evidence on them. Maybe he was a freak in the sheets and was into that kind of thing? who are we to judge!




                      I think the saddest part of all this is that there is 3 vicitims and a large portion of the Wisonsin population was led to believe the same thing you said, that Avery was a monster and commited this horrible crime ... but really, step back and take a look at the details of the crime as presented by the DA and then ask yourself one major question ...

                      Where is the evidence? i.e. Blood???? - Halbach was, as Dassey initially claimed, bound & tortured, raped, stabbed, beaten and her throat slit, yet there is not one sliver of blood DNA evidence to be found within Avery's trailer or his garage. The only physical DNA evidence linking Halbach to that property was that Bullet, which again did not contain Blood DNA.

                      As for the Bullet ... yes the bullet matched a bullet from Avery's .22 CAL rifle he had! Let's not forget that they Avery's lived in a pretty rural area, on 40 acres of land ... I'm sure at some point, that .22 CAL had been fired on property at something, which would in turn leave a bullet laying around. I have a friend, who has 5 acres of property here in Florida, at any time I could drive to his house and rummage around the yard for 10 minutes and find a spent casing and a bullet to match one of his guns! I think it's far fetched to believe that the same thing couldn't have occured to Avery. Those officers has a whole lot of private time on that property which could have been used to "find" what they needed in order to set this plan in motion.
                      All great points and let's not act like the sheriff's deputies that were there had good reason to be. They acted like they would exclude themselves due to a possible conflict of interest, and then proceed to be heavy involved in all parts of the investigation. Not to mention that the main pieces of evidence were found by said deputies. The damn investigation was a farce whether or not he is guilty. Those cops should be ashamed of themselves either way as well, they're terrible officers and are a disgrace to the badge.

                      Don't get me started about how on such a large piece of property the aunt of the deceased just happens to find the vehicle within such a small time.
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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by 58Miller View Post
                        I binge watched it as well. Really sad story. From the evidence that was produced I think Avery was innocent of killing her the way the DA said it went down. Somebody knows what happen and when 30 plus million is on the table I wouldn't be surprised what anyone would do.
                        I believe the view of the Avery's in that community has allowed them to move on believing that Avery either did it and if not probably did something wrong that he got away with so its ok. Scary to think there may be a murderer out there still.
                        There was more than 30 million on the line, some of those involved had lied (false official reports and such). Quite a few people stood to lose a lot personally, and were allowed on scene to process evidence. This country is going to crap in a million ways.
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                        • #13
                          Good documentary...very sensationalized story. I enjoyed it but go irked when the obvious slants to the story were being worked.

                          That being said the one deputy lenk I believe. Creeped me out. And the non answer to why the other one ran that plate when he did.
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                          • #14
                            Has anyone been able to find the complete court transcripts online? I need something to read on a long flight!

                            Edit: found this This might take my next three or four flights haha

                            https://www.reddit.com/r/MakingaMurd..._dassey_cases/


                            VDB and I watched the first 8 so far and it's nuts!! The fact that a jury convicted someone of killing someone in that manner, with ZERO blood in the carpet, pad, bed, sheets, walls, porch, or ANYWHERE is the most shocking think ever. I mean, how was that not reasonable doubt?
                            Last edited by SLeeLeeS; 01-17-2016, 01:23 PM.

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                            • #15
                              Going to be honest, I went into this with the mindset that the docu-series would only tell one side of the story (which it did) and to take it with a grain of salt. By about episode 5 it became blatantly apparent that guilty or not, this was not even remotely a fair trial...I wanted to punch that prosecutor in the face

                              Not to mention the fact that poor Brenden is going to spend life in jail when there is absolutely ZERO evidence that collaborates his coerced testimonies. I probably shouldn't have even watched it because I'm really just pissed right now.
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