Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Star Wars Last Jedi (Spoiler thread)

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Star Wars Last Jedi (Spoiler thread)

    Here LT, now we've got a spoiler thread. (this is probably a good idea anyway)

    Don't read this thread if you haven't seen the movie, beyond this point, there will be spoilers! You have been warned.
    sigpic

  • #2
    Seriously... Woe be to thee who does not turn back at this point and does not want part of this movie spoiled.
    Thanks, Reid!
    sigpic
    Click on my sig to read JetRazor's and my story. Or PM me with any questions.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Freyaka
      I liked where they went with Luke, he felt like a broken and more cynical version of Yoda. I wish the film would have cut out the Finn and Rose story all together and focus more on Luke and Rey. There was more there that could have been explored, but instead we got little bits and pieces here and there.

      I liked Yoda showing up and basically telling Luke to get his crap together and remember what he taught him. It was good seeing the whimsical dagobah Yoda again.

      I didn't like them killing Luke off, however, that final shot, with the two suns and Luke in the forground. That was an extremely beautiful cinematic masterpiece that did an amazing job of calling back to our very first moments with Luke on Tatooine. That was a beautiful send off.
      I'm going to refer a lot to the various complaints and comments I've read elsewhere. I do this because I have such huge rose-colored glasses when it comes to things I enjoy. I have a tendency to look on the bright side of everything too much, and am very accepting of the way things are. So I lean on others as a way to get a balanced view on such things.

      Ok, a lot of the complaints I've read centered around Luke. His character here didn't seem to match what everyone was hoping expecting... but that was based on preconceived notions and the massive history of his character in the EU. If you take into account the fact that he went hermit for years, it makes sense. I saw someone describe the complaints aptly, so I'm going to use their description, give or take. People spent decades dreaming of getting movies about the exploits of Jedi Master Luke Skywalker, hero and savior of the Rebellion and New Republic.

      This movie does not do that. It's a hole that people were really itching for and are going to have to do without. This is no longer Luke's story. I felt that his send off was appropriate and beautiful. On top of that, he did not die because he was bested by Kylo or Snoke. I appreciate that. He died because he expended massive energy and power in a way that presumably had not been done before. In doing so, he saved the Spark of the resistance. When he was done, he became one with the Force.

      Though much of the complaints centered around the fact that Luke was the guy who never gave up on the good in Darth Freaking Vader... yet he ended up standing over a teen-aged learner in their sleep with his lightsaber drawn. His own nephew. It seemed horribly out of character for the man who believed to a fault in the redeem-ability of one of the Galaxy's worst villains. That seems fair. The greatest counter point I've seen to that was 'Having lived through and seen the horrors (and likely carried some guilt) of his own family, he saw his nephew building up (not to get into a political discussion)... to relate it to something less Star Wars... building up a gun arsenal and having school plans laid out, etc. I guess the point is that we don't know what horrors he sensed in Kylo/Ben... and he reacted instinctively and immediately regretted it.

      This drove him to decide he wanted nothing more to do with any of it, and the best thing would be for the Jedi to just go away. The Jedi and their counterparts being 'to blame' for much of the strife in the galaxy over its history. I disagree with his stance here, but we're supposed to. It's flawed, and he sees the flaw ultimately. The galaxy and the Force will move on with or without him.

      It WAS awesome seeing Yoda represented how Luke knew him, not how Obi-wan et. al. knew him.

      Lastly (regarding Luke... I'll be commenting on other stuff more shortly...) I also was sad that Luke died. I did love how they did it... but I also appreciate why they had to. The final movie should not be about Luke (unless the whole trilogy was, and it's not). I love that both Snoke and he are out of the picture, so there's no big bad behind the main bad (a la Emperor/Vader). It's Kylo and Rey, and it's going to come down to just the two of them.
      Thanks, Reid!
      sigpic
      Click on my sig to read JetRazor's and my story. Or PM me with any questions.

      Comment


      • #4
        Sorry, I've got this all in my head and I could go on for hours. Try not to overwhelm my wife by talking about Star Wars too much. Right now, she wants to go see it again, and I'm thrilled.

        Originally posted by Freyaka View Post
        I dunno, I about died when poor Chewie was trying to enjoy is Kentucky Fried Porg and had to deal with his future meal crying in front of him. Some of the humor fell flat, but the Porgs were great.

        The biggest complaint that just has me shaking my head is the people that are like "MARY SUE!!! MARY SUE!!!" People just cannot accept that Rey picked up on the force and lightsabers without years of training. I've heard it called "lazy writing"

        I've tried to point out Luke's experience consisted of one lesson with Obi-wan, a week or two at best with Yoda and then nothing, and then he goes and takes on Vader his father who HAS had years of training and holds his own, eventually defeating him.

        So it's fine and believable for Luke, but if Rey does it, she's an over powered mary sue. I'm yet to get an angry fan boy explanation of how Luke's situation was any different from Rey's.
        Originally posted by LordTrychon View Post
        I agree with Frey on this... my biggest concern going in was that the Porgs were going to be annoying. They didn't bother me at all.

        They Mary Sue complaints have *some* merit, I feel... but it's really hard to say at the end of TFA, because of the question marks regarding her backstory. After TLJ, it's hard to say, and I don't want to go into it because it's too early still to get spoilery.

        It doesn't bother me that much.

        Something that does bother me is inconsistency in travel times, power level of ships, etc. I think that makes it hard to really get a handle on how much training Luke really had both with Obiwan and Yoda, though he also did some training between V and VI... The time frames for TLJ seem a bit messed up, IMO... but what really got me a little worked up was making it seem like a massive dreadnought that would be a target of opportunity/note only had maybe a dozen guns (even if just on the top).

        I almost want to start a spoiler heavy thread just to keep this one lighter in the meantime.
        Ok, yeah... Mary Sue...

        So I didn't mind the Mary Sue stuff in TFA, because we didn't know her backstory at all. Seemed like she may have had some wiped/blocked memories of Training. I personally don't believe Ben/Kylo when he says that deep down Rey knows the truth, that her parents were nobodies who traded her away for a few drinks. I seem to be completely alone in that thought, so if I'm wrong... I hope they at least provide more explanation as to why she has this bond with the Force/Luke's Lightsaber/Ben/Kylo. They spent so much time seemingly setting up the 'Mystery' of Rey, that if it was all a red herring... man... boo. lol.

        Kylo 'WHAT girl?'
        Maz 'Who's the girl?'
        Etc. Etc.

        They did seem to partially address her natural affinity when Snoke talks about how as Kylo's strength grows, his counterpoint in the light does as well... and how he thought it was Luke, but it was Rey. Ok, fine. Love the balance of Snoke/Luke both gone, maybe Rey is naturally super strong because the Force is 'Forcing' a balance for Ben. Ok. I just hope they don't just leave it at that. Why/how her? They CAN leave it at just that, but I hope they don't.

        Luke's training with Ben would have amounted to more than just one lesson in the Falcon... generally, it's taken days to weeks to travel across the Star Wars galaxy, though that was severely thrown into question in TLJ. That bothered me. They needed a better explanation as to why they were low on fuel, but could coast for about 2 days, but then would still have fuel enough to jump? Eh. Handy that Rey was only a few hours away as well.
        Thanks, Reid!
        sigpic
        Click on my sig to read JetRazor's and my story. Or PM me with any questions.

        Comment


        • #5
          The real person that's a bit over powered in TFA and TLJ is Poe Dameron. I'm probably in the minority of people who would care... but I'm always torn during his battle flight scenes... they are BADASS... but man, it's unbelievable what he does.

          In TFA, above Maz's place... he takes out something like 8 fighters in 10 seconds, then picks off a few stormtroopers for fun. Nope. Sorry... no. Just ugh. I love seeing it, and it's badass, and I love that one of the main characters is a Snubfighter Ace... but wow.

          In TLJ, he takes out a little less than a dozen guns on the top side of the dreadnought, and that works ok... a great pilot that could do what he did in TFA (or even a more realistic feat along those lines) could weave in and out close to a Capital ship like that and take out cannons... but there would be several times more that he'd need to take out to completely disarm one side of that ship.

          Just IMO.
          Thanks, Reid!
          sigpic
          Click on my sig to read JetRazor's and my story. Or PM me with any questions.

          Comment


          • #6
            *sigh* I feel better now, just having got that all out... and there's so much more to discuss! I'll be around!
            Thanks, Reid!
            sigpic
            Click on my sig to read JetRazor's and my story. Or PM me with any questions.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by LordTrychon View Post
              The real person that's a bit over powered in TFA and TLJ is Poe Dameron. I'm probably in the minority of people who would care... but I'm always torn during his battle flight scenes... they are BADASS... but man, it's unbelievable what he does.

              In TFA, above Maz's place... he takes out something like 8 fighters in 10 seconds, then picks off a few stormtroopers for fun. Nope. Sorry... no. Just ugh. I love seeing it, and it's badass, and I love that one of the main characters is a Snubfighter Ace... but wow.

              In TLJ, he takes out a little less than a dozen guns on the top side of the dreadnought, and that works ok... a great pilot that could do what he did in TFA (or even a more realistic feat along those lines) could weave in and out close to a Capital ship like that and take out cannons... but there would be several times more that he'd need to take out to completely disarm one side of that ship.

              Just IMO.
              I don't understand how one Xwing wasn't shot, that is it, no others causing a diversion, Just one X wing, cant be shot. Also how did he take that explosions straight to the face and even have a singed eyebrow hair?

              I also don't understand why hyperdrive weapons aren't being used like ALL THE TIME!! that was one of my favorite scenes in the movie but was like why don't the strap those bad boys on a bunch of boulders and take some fleets out? left a big ugly plot hole for me.
              sigpic
              BCMB Div I - AB's Etsy Shop | BCMB FF Smackdown - Cold Feet

              Comment


              • #8
                On the Luke Topic, I also felt Luke would never have succumbed, even for a second to murder Ben. Just wasn't right.

                I loved the Astral projection, but I felt it was the wrong time to kill him off, especially with Leia not returning I felt they should have kept at least to the beginning of the next film. I do agree that the Two Sun sunset was a beautiful scene, very poetic.

                I wanted so bad to see two things with luke, I wanted to see him just obliterate all the ATAT's with a flick of the wrist. Also the whole time Finn was heading to his doom all I could see was Luke swooping down in his X-Wing to dispatch that Ram like a womprat!! sadly I saw neither.

                The biggest issue most of us have is that we have to MUCH EU lore in our heads that Disney at the very beginning said were no longer Canon. We cant let it go Luke was a basically a god and we never got to watch it

                Best part of the whole movie was after that blaster barrage on halo-Luke, he stands up and brushed his shoulder off like a pimp. that was fantastic.
                sigpic
                BCMB Div I - AB's Etsy Shop | BCMB FF Smackdown - Cold Feet

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by dipablo View Post
                  I don't understand how one Xwing wasn't shot, that is it, no others causing a diversion, Just one X wing, cant be shot. Also how did he take that explosions straight to the face and even have a singed eyebrow hair?

                  I also don't understand why hyperdrive weapons aren't being used like ALL THE TIME!! that was one of my favorite scenes in the movie but was like why don't the strap those bad boys on a bunch of boulders and take some fleets out? left a big ugly plot hole for me.
                  Hahaha... Well, in old EU and cannon, it's explained to various degrees that different types of weapons have different uses. Large capital ships generally mostly are stocked with giant Tubolasers, meant for hammering other large ships or bases/shields. They're not quick enough to track starfighters in general. There are anti fighter cannons that are more effective, though they aren't as common on most types of Capital ships. Still, the most effective way to deal with Fighters is other Fighters. (there's a type of mini-capital ship in the EU called a Lancer frigate that was covered brim to brim with anti-fighter weapons and was death to fighters)

                  I'd have to see the explosion again. lol.

                  The hyperdrive moment was awesome and one of the most visually stunning in all the movies. But yeah... if it was that simple, it should have been used over and over. Sure, hyperdrives aint cheap... which is why the Empire never put them in their fighters... but if you're going to lose dozens of fighters with hyperdrives in a battle... may as well just shoot hyperspace asteroids at the enemy. Bye, Death Star!
                  Thanks, Reid!
                  sigpic
                  Click on my sig to read JetRazor's and my story. Or PM me with any questions.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by LordTrychon View Post
                    Hahaha... Well, in old EU and cannon, it's explained to various degrees that different types of weapons have different uses. Large capital ships generally mostly are stocked with giant Tubolasers, meant for hammering other large ships or bases/shields. They're not quick enough to track starfighters in general. There are anti fighter cannons that are more effective, though they aren't as common on most types of Capital ships. Still, the most effective way to deal with Fighters is other Fighters. (there's a type of mini-capital ship in the EU called a Lancer frigate that was covered brim to brim with anti-fighter weapons and was death to fighters)
                    Sure when a fleet of fights attacks a big ship like that it would have trouble tracking and shaking them off. But 1 x wing? just 1? I don't know I would think they could get 1 X wing.
                    sigpic
                    BCMB Div I - AB's Etsy Shop | BCMB FF Smackdown - Cold Feet

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by dipablo View Post
                      On the Luke Topic, I also felt Luke would never have succumbed, even for a second to murder Ben. Just wasn't right.

                      I loved the Astral projection, but I felt it was the wrong time to kill him off, especially with Leia not returning I felt they should have kept at least to the beginning of the next film. I do agree that the Two Sun sunset was a beautiful scene, very poetic.

                      I wanted so bad to see two things with luke, I wanted to see him just obliterate all the ATAT's with a flick of the wrist. Also the whole time Finn was heading to his doom all I could see was Luke swooping down in his X-Wing to dispatch that Ram like a womprat!! sadly I saw neither.

                      The biggest issue most of us have is that we have to MUCH EU lore in our heads that Disney at the very beginning said were no longer Canon. We cant let it go Luke was a basically a god and we never got to watch it

                      Best part of the whole movie was after that blaster barrage on halo-Luke, he stands up and brushed his shoulder off like a pimp. that was fantastic.
                      Yeah, the example I gave was the best way to explain that failure by Luke. Still a stretch, but in my headcannon now, Luke is seeing visions of the future where Luke fails and Ben becomes worse than Vader.

                      Agreed, it's very hard to let go of EU. It's not gone, just different.

                      The barrage on not-Luke was amazing. My wife caught that his footsteps weren't leaving a red trail. Tricky girl.

                      'See ya, kid... '
                      Thanks, Reid!
                      sigpic
                      Click on my sig to read JetRazor's and my story. Or PM me with any questions.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by LordTrychon View Post
                        The real person that's a bit over powered in TFA and TLJ is Poe Dameron. I'm probably in the minority of people who would care... but I'm always torn during his battle flight scenes... they are BADASS... but man, it's unbelievable what he does.

                        In TFA, above Maz's place... he takes out something like 8 fighters in 10 seconds, then picks off a few stormtroopers for fun. Nope. Sorry... no. Just ugh. I love seeing it, and it's badass, and I love that one of the main characters is a Snubfighter Ace... but wow.

                        In TLJ, he takes out a little less than a dozen guns on the top side of the dreadnought, and that works ok... a great pilot that could do what he did in TFA (or even a more realistic feat along those lines) could weave in and out close to a Capital ship like that and take out cannons... but there would be several times more that he'd need to take out to completely disarm one side of that ship.

                        Just IMO.
                        I have the feeling, we're going to figure out in the next chapter that Poe is force sensitive. It is probably going to be what draws he and Rey together. I don't know if you read the comics, but if I remember right, there were some hints there with the part of the tree that is tied to the force that his parents got. I don't remember the specifics now, but I think he's going to get the Jedi treatment going forward.
                        sigpic

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by dipablo View Post
                          Sure when a fleet of fights attacks a big ship like that it would have trouble tracking and shaking them off. But 1 x wing? just 1? I don't know I would think they could get 1 X wing.
                          Well, picture trying to take out a swarm of gnats vs. one. Especially a really tricky fast one. That at least fits other canon... even going back as far as Episode IV. In the EU, this is something we've seen a few pilots do. It's not beyond belief, IMO. It shouldn't be that easy to take out all the threatening guns on one side of the ship though. Haven't looked it up, but based on how they talked about the dreadnought, it was considered an extremely valuable target of opportunity. That means much larger than a Star Destroyer, which has soooo many guns its not funny.
                          Thanks, Reid!
                          sigpic
                          Click on my sig to read JetRazor's and my story. Or PM me with any questions.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by dipablo View Post
                            I don't understand how one Xwing wasn't shot, that is it, no others causing a diversion, Just one X wing, cant be shot. Also how did he take that explosions straight to the face and even have a singed eyebrow hair?

                            I also don't understand why hyperdrive weapons aren't being used like ALL THE TIME!! that was one of my favorite scenes in the movie but was like why don't the strap those bad boys on a bunch of boulders and take some fleets out? left a big ugly plot hole for me.
                            I don't think the hyperdrive weapon was a plot hole. We've never seen it on screen before and that's likely because it's something no one else had ever tried. She gave it a shot hoping it would work and it did. I don't find it hard to believe that it was just something that no one else had every thought of before. People find new tactics in war all the time.
                            sigpic

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Freyaka View Post
                              I have the feeling, we're going to figure out in the next chapter that Poe is force sensitive. It is probably going to be what draws he and Rey together. I don't know if you read the comics, but if I remember right, there were some hints there with the part of the tree that is tied to the force that his parents got. I don't remember the specifics now, but I think he's going to get the Jedi treatment going forward.


                              I'd be ok with that... but even with that, Poe is OP as a pilot. Not Wedge, not Vader, not Luke... not Anakin.... Corran Horn... nobody ever pulled off the stuff that Poe did in TFA. You almost HAVE to say force sensitive to even be able to see the battle the way you'd have to even notice the number of targets he hits like it's nothing. I just have to suspend disbelief during that scene and just enjoy it. They wanted to establish him as top active pilot in the Galaxy, and that's how they did it.

                              I wish I had read all the comics. Any other insight from the comics is welcome, to be sure. I haven't even read much of the new canon yet. I feel behind.
                              Thanks, Reid!
                              sigpic
                              Click on my sig to read JetRazor's and my story. Or PM me with any questions.

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X