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  • They sold out!!!

    This thread is for accusing bands of selling out. I'll start.

    Metallica is the biggest sellout band I've ever seen in my life. Everything after the Black album is absolute garbage. Load and Reload both sucked (except maybe King Nothing, but one song does not an album make). They totally let Hammet destroy that band from the inside by giving him more creative control. Also, somewhere along the line, Hetfield grew himself a fuzzy taco.

    Metallica has got to be the biggest sellout band ever. Why else would Newsted leave?
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  • #2
    Papa Roach. they just completely changed there style since infest and Lovehatetragedy. They are constantly evolving. now i wouldn't be upset with that but there new stuff sucks.



    GNR-Axl Rose just tore that band apart.
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    We miss 'ya brother dime. We know your up there jamming with Cliff and Chuck. Stay metal :salute: :rockon:

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    • #3
      Originally posted by tpryce93
      Papa Roach. they just completely changed there style since infest and Lovehatetragedy. They are constantly evolving. now i wouldn't be upset with that but there new stuff sucks.



      GNR-Axl Rose just tore that band apart.
      Couldn't agree more on GNR.

      Papa Roach had one wuss song on their latest album. I have the album, and I kind of like it. I skip Scars, though. It makes me feel like I'm growing a hoo-ha.

      I think the latter days of STP kind of sucked. I don't think they sold out, but they got too far away from what they were trying to do originally on Core.
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      • #4
        Wasn't Sugar Ray kind of a heavy band untill they realised that they could make boatloads of cash off of Soccer moms with wussy songs?

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        • #5
          I don't know if Metallica sold out, but you can't not include the Black Album in that whole era, because that was the first one that had concise structures and traditional solo breaks.


          Partly that was a decision on the part of Hetfield and Ulrich to simplify because they felt that they couldn;t really go anywhere with the prog/thrash after ...Justice.


          Partly it was allowing Hammet to come up with his own solos.


          But mostly, it was because their songwriting changed after Burton died. "Justice" still had some songs he had worked on with them before his death, but "Black" didn't. It is perfectly reasonable to expect a stylistic change when a band memeber leaves.


          I thnk Newstead left because what started as hazing of the new guy in 1987 never stopped. And Hetfield apparently was very nasty about it when he was drunk. I'd leave too.


          Anyway, my biggest sellout band or artist is a tie between Santana and Journey (???)

          Santana is fairly obvious. Its ok that he has an ear for pop songs, and throwing one on an album occaisonally is fine, but this will be his third consecutive album where it doesn't sound liek him, just his guitar over some pop songs.

          Journey will take some time to explain. Backin 1973, Neal Schon and Gregg Rollie (formerly of Santana) formed their own group in San Francisco that initially was going to be rock verison of the Tower Of Power. A group of session musicians that would play on anyone's albums, anytime, and still play live locally for fun. They needed kick ass musicians to do this, as session guys need to be able to play any style effectively and quickly. They recruited Ansley Dunbar from Zappa's Mothers of Invention band on drums, as well as a little known, but locally worshiped guitar teacher named George Tickner. Bassist Ross Valory was a friend of Tickner's.

          Labels came sniffing around, simply because of Rollie's name being connected to Santana, and Schon being something of a prodigy (he joined Santana at the age of 16 in 1970). And, the live shows and rehearsals were amazing.

          The sound was progressive fusion. Like if Weather Report, ELP, and Rush played together. Heavy rock with jazz structures and crazy keyboards and mostly instumental music. I actually like this sound.

          Needless to say, this was far removed from what they became.

          Tickner left after one album, and they put out two more as a 4 piece with Rollie on lead vocals.

          Then, under pressure from the label, and because they felt trapped in what they saw as a dying genre, they added a lead vocalist named Robert Fleischmann. he was a Led Zep type arena rock screamer, and they simplified their songs to build around him. With Rollie still basically in control, they actually were a pretty cool blues based arena rock band. But they were writing more radio friendly stuff. But there was still lots of very cool guitar work, Dunbar was amazing on the drums, and Rollie added organs and Mellotrons to the pianos to keep things interesting.
          Fleischman quit after 6 months right before recording the 4th record, Infinity. So, they hired a guy who's demo their manager had named Steve Perry.


          This was the worst thing they could have done.


          Infinity was already written, and you can tell Perry had little input. It's mainstream rock, but there is still some bluesy grit to it, and some complex arrangements. There is some of Schon's scorching fret-work, and Gregg Rolie's subtle keyboard arrangements. Enlisting eccentric producer Roy Thomas Baker (already famous for guiding the likes of Queen and Nazareth to giant commercial triumphs of their own) also proved to be a rewarding move for the boys. With newfound confidence, Journey crafted a record that could finally land them on the radio. Loaded with future FM staples like "Wheel in the Sky" (a fairly complex arrangement with a prog-like outro fade) and "Lights" (bluesy rock with pop vocals).

          One of the last songs added was a Perry/Schon effort "Patiently". An acoustic ballad. In retrospect, you can hear, right there, where the band was going.

          This album went platinum, which gave Perry and Schon confidence as writers, both seperately and as a team.

          And to be honest, this sound isn't terrible. There are moments of genuine rock, and great guitar work. Dunbar quit in protest and was replaced by Steve Smith (also an AMAZING drummer). But the sound didn't really change through "Evolution" and "Departure".

          But in 1980, when Rollie quit due to constant friction with Perry, and his desire to stop touring so much (he had been on the road pretty much since 1966 or 1967 when he joined Santana), that when Journey truly sold out. They hired Jonathan Cain to replace him, at Perry's insistence.


          JONATHAN CAIN!????

          From that pansy group The Babys?

          He of the grand piano and synthesizers!?!!!

          OH crap.


          Sure enough, Escape was a pop album. Pure and simple. Pop. Nice pop, but pop nonetheless. No real rock in sight. Synthesizers every where. Mostly Mid tempo songs that were to bland to rock and too fast to be ballads (the only exception being "Stone In Love"). Plus, they switched producers, and now the mix was too slick by half. Everything was tracked and overdubbed ad infinitum, as opposed to the previous efforts which were pretty much done live in the studio.

          And it worked. The nauseating "Open Arms" is the one people remember now, although "Who's Crying Now" (barf) and "Don't Stop Believing" (redemeed by Schon's guitar) were also huge. This led to Perry essentially taking over.

          This led to 2 more albums like this, each one a carbon copy of each other, but each one more like 60's R&B flavored pop rock. And one Perry solo record that sucked and had nothing to do with rock music.

          They sold something like 13 million copies of just these three records, but they sold out any semblance of being a rock band to do it.

          Steve Perry is the devil, and Jonathan Cain is his right hand man. They wasted the considerable talents of Schon, Valory, and Smith playing insipid pop songs that even I could play.

          Everybody's gotta elevate from the norm...

          The greatest list of music I don't own on CD :sad:
          You should check these guys out

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          • #6
            As much as I hate to say it, Linkin Park. Jay-Z + them was crap.

            Hope they can bounce back on their next album.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Invesco
              As much as I hate to say it, Linkin Park. Jay-Z + them was crap.

              Hope they can bounce back on their next album.
              They both suck thats why it was crap.
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              • #8
                Originally posted by 970BroncoFan
                They both suck thats why it was crap.
                i'm gonna have to agree there. linkin park wasn't that great to begin with
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                We miss 'ya brother dime. We know your up there jamming with Cliff and Chuck. Stay metal :salute: :rockon:

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                • #9
                  I hate the term "Sell out"

                  I absolutely hate the term sell out, and people's loose definition of selling out.

                  If you go by the punk definition, then as soon as a band signs a major record contract they've sold out... If that's the case, then we're punishing people for being good at what they do. That's why I don't buy it when people accuse a band of selling out simply because their fan base gets large, or because they cash in on opportunities brought to them through their music. We live in a capitalist society, let them get rich....

                  To me, someone has sold out only if they change their music to expand their audience. If they are sacrificing artistic integrity because an exec tells them to, or because a censor thinks it will appeal to a broader audience...Then they've sold out.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Buff_bronc_fan
                    I absolutely hate the term sell out, and people's loose definition of selling out.

                    If you go by the punk definition, then as soon as a band signs a major record contract they've sold out... If that's the case, then we're punishing people for being good at what they do. That's why I don't buy it when people accuse a band of selling out simply because their fan base gets large, or because they cash in on opportunities brought to them through their music. We live in a capitalist society, let them get rich....

                    To me, someone has sold out only if they change their music to expand their audience. If they are sacrificing artistic integrity because an exec tells them to, or because a censor thinks it will appeal to a broader audience...Then they've sold out.
                    I think that's a fair assessment. And I never meant "sell out" in the punk sense. I think that some "sell out" punk bands are pretty good.
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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by tpryce93
                      i'm gonna have to agree there. linkin park wasn't that great to begin with
                      I like Linkin Park

                      They do have a few songs that I can't stand, but I thought that Hybrid Theory, overall, was pretty cool.

                      What I've heard of Meteora ain't bad either.
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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Buff_bronc_fan
                        I absolutely hate the term sell out, and people's loose definition of selling out.

                        If you go by the punk definition, then as soon as a band signs a major record contract they've sold out... If that's the case, then we're punishing people for being good at what they do. That's why I don't buy it when people accuse a band of selling out simply because their fan base gets large, or because they cash in on opportunities brought to them through their music. We live in a capitalist society, let them get rich....

                        To me, someone has sold out only if they change their music to expand their audience. If they are sacrificing artistic integrity because an exec tells them to, or because a censor thinks it will appeal to a broader audience...Then they've sold out.
                        exactly i agree with the last part. that's what i think papa roach did with GAWM. they completely changed there style of music to sell records. GAWM wasn't them. all there songs are about is freakin break-ups.
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                        We miss 'ya brother dime. We know your up there jamming with Cliff and Chuck. Stay metal :salute: :rockon:

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by The Dark Knight
                          Wasn't Sugar Ray kind of a heavy band untill they realised that they could make boatloads of cash off of Soccer moms with wussy songs?
                          mmhmm basically
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                          We miss 'ya brother dime. We know your up there jamming with Cliff and Chuck. Stay metal :salute: :rockon:

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                          • #14
                            Yeah..Linkin Park is awesomely cool. I like most of the songs on Hybrid, and some on Meteora.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Invesco
                              Yeah..Linkin Park is awesomely cool. I like most of the songs on Hybrid, and some on Meteora.
                              well to each his own
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                              We miss 'ya brother dime. We know your up there jamming with Cliff and Chuck. Stay metal :salute: :rockon:

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