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good wizards in movies dont live up to their abilities

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  • good wizards in movies dont live up to their abilities

    last week I watched harry potter and the goblet of fire last week and something came to my attention:

    it occured to me that all the good wizards in movie look weak (as in not powerful). DumbleDorf (sp?) acts meak in all the movies so far (not sure about the books) and you hardly see him use any of his supposed mighty power.

    In lord of the rings you dont see Gandalf use his powers hardly at all and it doesnt seem like any bad guys fear him much if at all even when he become the white wizard.


    To me I think that a wizards role in these movies is very disappointing. I would like them to actually use their powers and live up to their potential. Has anyone else noticed this? Do you agree?
    Glen Haven Fire

  • #2
    Originally posted by armedequation

    In lord of the rings you dont see Gandalf use his powers hardly at all and it doesnt seem like any bad guys fear him much if at all even when he become the white wizard.

    Nerd Alert!!!!!!


    I found this on a another website and this gets into depth about why gandalf doesnt use his powers. There are many theories.
    Practically, Gandalf does not abuse his powers, because he saw the mess that it got Saruman into - and there was a reason he was a grey wizard first - the lore suggests that he was without doubt the wisest of the order, but not the most powerful. One of the few times he uses his powers, though, is against Aragorn, Legolas, and Gimli and with his magic he effectively negates the offensive power of the three best and most crunkin' heroes in Middle Earth, which has got to count for something!
    From the point of view of Tolkien's religion, there was no greater "good" non-occultist power than inspiring those around you with extreme fervour while disheartening your opponents, who, in the case of orcs, were bound to service by evil and thusly not truly loyal. It is like the general who, although he does not fight, is worth far more than an ordinary grunt because he leads and boosts morale of the troops.

    And of course, why would Gandalf need to use overt displays of magic? His sword, Gamaldring, traces its roots back to the Silmarillion (though it is never mentioned how the three trolls got their hands on it!), and he holds the Elven Ring of Fire. There is a well illustrated sub-scene in the 3rd movie. Gandalf barley scratches one of the bigger trolls with his sword, yet it goes down. The only reason that I can see for such happening was that his weapons and person total to being so "good" that coming into contact with anything evil results in the evil thing's immediate internatl combustion! Or something like that.
    Gandalf's a Maiar, a lesser Ainur. He serves the Valar Melian, if I recall correctly. I also believe Gandalf had "orders" of some kind which forbade him to use his powers in significant ways.
    In his human form (called Istari), Gandalf's power is limited to those found in the mortal world. As a spirit (Maiar), he's much more powerful.
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    DROY

    Mile High Manning Fivehead Bandwagon #98

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    • #3
      Originally posted by bronc_fan23
      Nerd Alert!!!!!!


      I found this on a another website and this gets into depth about why gandalf doesnt use his powers. There are many theories.
      You call him a nerd and you give him an article about Gandalf

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      • #4
        Originally posted by xX-Bronco-Xx
        You call him a nerd and you give him an article about Gandalf

        No im calling myself a nerd, sorry bout the misunderstanding!!!
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        DROY

        Mile High Manning Fivehead Bandwagon #98

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        • #5
          Originally posted by bronc_fan23
          No im calling myself a nerd, sorry bout the misunderstanding!!!

          lol i knew what you meant.

          I see what was said about gandalf which was alot more than I thought gandalf was. But its just like that for gandalf but for every
          good wizard in movies.


          I didnt read the books so im a little fuzzy on the backround of Gandalf. Although I dont recall him ever using his powers on Aragorn, Legolas, and Gimli. The only time I recall him using any power was when he wsa fighting the belroc (sp?).
          Glen Haven Fire

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          • #6
            Boy, I'm really going to showcase my geekiness here.

            In LotR, Tolkien wanted the 'wizards' to have their powers very innocuous and organic. They didn't use words to cast spells (though they were sometimes narrative, see Theoden's reclamation) and there weren't overt flashes or fireballs or things of that nature. Even Saruman. He used great and dark magic to make the Uruk-Hai, but you never really see the magic at work. Further, to Tolkien, the wizards were more sage immortals than over magic-users.

            Dumbledore is a different story altogether. In the books, there is no questioning he's got everything down. Well, that is until the fifth book, where he makes a miscalculation that almost cost Harry his life. Yet, all throughout the books, Jo is careful to show that he's got all the wheels cranking and his foresight and planning is what is ultimately going to allow goodness to prevail. I like that very much about the books. The movies are somewhat different. I think the death of Harris (who was VERY good at portraying the book Dumbledore) allowed or even necessitated Gambon to portray a more human or even fallible Dumbledore. I think he plays the part well, but it is a different Dumbledore. I can live with it, because I know overall the books will be adhered to as faithfully as celluloid will permit.

            As to the original premise of the thread, I think the reason I usually give passes muster. That is, good guys (and this certainly includes wizards) are restricted in being good guys. Thus, they have guidelines to follow and spells and actions they cannot by definition use. Thus, baddies will look more powerful because they are less restricted. Being big on the good/dark, white/black issue, I have a big problem with good guys being so hamstrung but I haven't figured out how good guys can in fact remain good guys if they resort to bad guy tactics.
            Victory and defeat are matters of the temporary force of circumstance.



            Thanks, Snk16!!

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Eldritch
              Boy, I'm really going to showcase my geekiness here.

              In LotR, Tolkien wanted the 'wizards' to have their powers very innocuous and organic. They didn't use words to cast spells (though they were sometimes narrative, see Theoden's reclamation) and there weren't overt flashes or fireballs or things of that nature. Even Saruman. He used great and dark magic to make the Uruk-Hai, but you never really see the magic at work. Further, to Tolkien, the wizards were more sage immortals than over magic-users.

              Dumbledore is a different story altogether. In the books, there is no questioning he's got everything down. Well, that is until the fifth book, where he makes a miscalculation that almost cost Harry his life. Yet, all throughout the books, Jo is careful to show that he's got all the wheels cranking and his foresight and planning is what is ultimately going to allow goodness to prevail. I like that very much about the books. The movies are somewhat different. I think the death of Harris (who was VERY good at portraying the book Dumbledore) allowed or even necessitated Gambon to portray a more human or even fallible Dumbledore. I think he plays the part well, but it is a different Dumbledore. I can live with it, because I know overall the books will be adhered to as faithfully as celluloid will permit.

              As to the original premise of the thread, I think the reason I usually give passes muster. That is, good guys (and this certainly includes wizards) are restricted in being good guys. Thus, they have guidelines to follow and spells and actions they cannot by definition use. Thus, baddies will look more powerful because they are less restricted. Being big on the good/dark, white/black issue, I have a big problem with good guys being so hamstrung but I haven't figured out how good guys can in fact remain good guys if they resort to bad guy tactics.

              nice!

              i just dont get it because you would think that the wizard using his powers would be justified if he would use them against the bad/evil guys.
              Glen Haven Fire

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              • #8
                Originally posted by armedequation

                I didnt read the books so im a little fuzzy on the backround of Gandalf. Although I dont recall him ever using his powers on Aragorn, Legolas, and Gimli. The only time I recall him using any power was when he wsa fighting the belroc (sp?).
                When he first met them as the White Wizard he did. They thought he was Saruman and so they fired their weapons at him so he deflected everything and froze them for a second and its Balrog just so you know
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                DROY

                Mile High Manning Fivehead Bandwagon #98

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by armedequation
                  nice!

                  i just dont get it because you would think that the wizard using his powers would be justified if he would use them against the bad/evil guys.
                  That is a trick that leads to the dark side... trust me.

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