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  • #31
    Kerry has stated on more than on occasion he would get the UN involved and either withdraw our troops or live them to work with the UN. Which equates to a no win situation. Absolutely nowhere the UN has gotten involved has there been an end to the problem.

    We should NEVER again put our troops under the command of anyone other than our own military and its chain of command. EVER. That is what Kerry wants to do hand IRAQ over to the UN. You think there is chaos now, how long would it take to see the UN cut and run, under an attack.

    I remember about 10 years ago hearing a President say, our Bosnian Troops would be home by Christmas, I believe it was. Still there and no hope that they will be home soon.

    By the way there are 3 distinct camps in the US the liberal left about 35% of voters, undecided about 30%, the correct side the conservative right 35%.

    The battle that is being waged by the ultra left MOORE and Hollywood airheads, for the middle 30%.

    Most of the undecided are non activists, they are not undecided because they can't make up their minds, but because they are not informed.

    BTW just because someone does not believe the drivel that Moore spews, does not make him or her a Nazi. It merely makes them educated beyond that of someone that only watched CNN and reads the NY or LA times and the vast majority of the newspapers in the US. Since most journalists and I use that term loosely are products of the US University systems and work for liberal editors, there will always going to be a story that may be not reported, but slanted in the way it is presented.

    I say journalist because they no longer report the facts, most of what you read is journalized. Not the FACTS just the FACTS.

    I watch allot of FOX news and CNN to make sure that I'm getting both sides of the same story. I believe from what I have seen that Fox does a better job at putting out a product that is fair a balanced. They give you the facts from both sides of the story and let you make up your mind.

    I've spent time in the Service standing watch guarding my ship and station. We played war games all the time getting prepared for. Have spent a great deal of time in foreign countries. I know what my country is and that thousands of Americans have died protecting OUR way of live means something to me.

    Call me a Nazi if that’s all the better you can do, sorry you have not seen the other side of the story.

    Comment


    • #32
      First off, of course you would consider Fox to deliver the "right" news. The whole corporation is owned by a hard-core conservative, so most of their views fall directly in line with yours.
      Second, where do you get off saying that your view, the conservative view, is the right view? Give me a break. So anyone who isn't a conservative is automatically wrong?
      This country is based on the idea that people are allowed to have their own opinions, but apparently you think that there is only one proper way of thinking. You talk about others not seeing the other side of the story, but it is blatantly apparent that you only look at one side of the story yourself.

      "The Gagne T-shirt jersey comes with a complimentary can of gasoline and a set of matches."

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by Jrhampton
        Kerry has stated on more than on occasion he would get the UN involved and either withdraw our troops or live them to work with the UN. Which equates to a no win situation. Absolutely nowhere the UN has gotten involved has there been an end to the problem.

        We should NEVER again put our troops under the command of anyone other than our own military and its chain of command. EVER. That is what Kerry wants to do hand IRAQ over to the UN. You think there is chaos now, how long would it take to see the UN cut and run, under an attack.

        I remember about 10 years ago hearing a President say, our Bosnian Troops would be home by Christmas, I believe it was. Still there and no hope that they will be home soon.

        By the way there are 3 distinct camps in the US the liberal left about 35% of voters, undecided about 30%, the correct side the conservative right 35%.

        The battle that is being waged by the ultra left MOORE and Hollywood airheads, for the middle 30%.

        Most of the undecided are non activists, they are not undecided because they can't make up their minds, but because they are not informed.

        BTW just because someone does not believe the drivel that Moore spews, does not make him or her a Nazi. It merely makes them educated beyond that of someone that only watched CNN and reads the NY or LA times and the vast majority of the newspapers in the US. Since most journalists and I use that term loosely are products of the US University systems and work for liberal editors, there will always going to be a story that may be not reported, but slanted in the way it is presented.

        I say journalist because they no longer report the facts, most of what you read is journalized. Not the FACTS just the FACTS.

        I watch allot of FOX news and CNN to make sure that I'm getting both sides of the same story. I believe from what I have seen that Fox does a better job at putting out a product that is fair a balanced. They give you the facts from both sides of the story and let you make up your mind.

        I've spent time in the Service standing watch guarding my ship and station. We played war games all the time getting prepared for. Have spent a great deal of time in foreign countries. I know what my country is and that thousands of Americans have died protecting OUR way of live means something to me.

        Call me a Nazi if that’s all the better you can do, sorry you have not seen the other side of the story.
        1) I never called you a Nazi. Nor was I intending or implying that. I am simply offering a different point of view.

        2) As someone who is independent, and has a healthy mistrust of both parties, I do not feel that I am undecided because I am misinformed. I am undecied because I feel I am forced to choose between the lesser of 2 evils in most elections. Not enough choice or difference between the two parties. Mostly this is due to the lack of open primaries in most states. (But that is a discussion for another time). Ultimately, I agree with some portions of the the stated platforms of both the major parties. But not enought to warrant an honest endorsement of either one by joining the party.

        3) Also, as an independent, I find Fox as biased to the right as I find CNN to the left. Every host on Fox is a registered Republican except Colmes, and he is an independent (the FOIA is great!) The reverse is true at CNN. It is disheartening to hear "anchors" interject their opinions when they are interviewing somebody before they can even finish a thought. This happens on BOTH networks. As a viewer I find it frustrating because very few people ever complete a train of thought. I don't care if they do it, but they should be labeled for what they are, opinion shows. An anchor should just read whatever information is available. A reporter should just ask questions and let the answers speak for themselves.

        4) I can also tell you that living in both big cities and very small towns, middle America papers tend to be conservative, and the big papers tend to be liberal. The big ones are what give the rest of the decent journalists in anywhere USA a bad rep. The TV ones are mostly liberal, but I would say that conservatives long ago decided to stop working for the big 3 broadcast networks for whatever reason. (Which is odd, because if I were an owner or board member of those three, I would definitely have even more conservative issues on fiscal and policy issues and other things than I do now. They tend to help big business.) Anyway, a vacuum will always be filled.

        I aprreciate the exchange of ideas, but understand, I am not endorsing Micheal Moore's movie. I am merely defending his right to say what he wants. Unless he physically threatens the president or is caught selling military secrets to Al Quaeda, he can do what he wants with is money and time. Even if the vast majority of us find it distasteful. if you feel that my doing that, alone, means that I am somehow un-American, I am sorry you feel that way.

        Everybody's gotta elevate from the norm...

        The greatest list of music I don't own on CD :sad:
        You should check these guys out

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by Jared
          1) I never called you a Nazi. Nor was I intending or implying that. I am simply offering a different point of view.

          2) As someone who is independent, and has a healthy mistrust of both parties, I do not feel that I am undecided because I am misinformed. I am undecied because I feel I am forced to choose between the lesser of 2 evils in most elections. Not enough choice or difference between the two parties. Mostly this is due to the lack of open primaries in most states. (But that is a discussion for another time). Ultimately, I agree with some portions of the the stated platforms of both the major parties. But not enought to warrant an honest endorsement of either one by joining the party.

          3) Also, as an independent, I find Fox as biased to the right as I find CNN to the left. Every host on Fox is a registered Republican except Colmes, and he is an independent (the FOIA is great!) The reverse is true at CNN. It is disheartening to hear "anchors" interject their opinions when they are interviewing somebody before they can even finish a thought. This happens on BOTH networks. As a viewer I find it frustrating because very few people ever complete a train of thought. I don't care if they do it, but they should be labeled for what they are, opinion shows. An anchor should just read whatever information is available. A reporter should just ask questions and let the answers speak for themselves.

          4) I can also tell you that living in both big cities and very small towns, middle America papers tend to be conservative, and the big papers tend to be liberal. The big ones are what give the rest of the decent journalists in anywhere USA a bad rep. The TV ones are mostly liberal, but I would say that conservatives long ago decided to stop working for the big 3 broadcast networks for whatever reason. (Which is odd, because if I were an owner or board member of those three, I would definitely have even more conservative issues on fiscal and policy issues and other things than I do now. They tend to help big business.) Anyway, a vacuum will always be filled.

          I aprreciate the exchange of ideas, but understand, I am not endorsing Micheal Moore's movie. I am merely defending his right to say what he wants. Unless he physically threatens the president or is caught selling military secrets to Al Quaeda, he can do what he wants with is money and time. Even if the vast majority of us find it distasteful. if you feel that my doing that, alone, means that I am somehow un-American, I am sorry you feel that way.
          Good post Jared. You are not un-american for supporting Moore's right to freedom of speech. He is not supporting Al-Quaeda whatever anyone might insinuate. He can do what he wants with his money. It is too bad that people with as much money, power, and influence will not step up to the plate and make a conservative documentary that supports Bush. The uninformed populace only have Moore's interpretation out there and I worry that it will give them a false idea of what is really going on. I agree as well about the media. That is why I try to take a look at both CNN and Fox as well. But it also makes me suspicious of any kind of news that is being reported. I can't help but wonder if it is accurate and which side is spinning it. So WHO really has America's best interests in mind?
          Patriotic dissent is a luxury of those protected by better men than they.

          Comment


          • #35
            Luvdembroncos, to give you my honest opinion, i think just about nobody has America's best interests at heart. I think most of those in Washington are more concerned with being re-elected, therefore having their own interests closest to their heart.

            "The Gagne T-shirt jersey comes with a complimentary can of gasoline and a set of matches."

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by NJBRONCOSFAN
              Luvdembroncos, to give you my honest opinion, i think just about nobody has America's best interests at heart. I think most of those in Washington are more concerned with being re-elected, therefore having their own interests closest to their heart.
              Absolutely. Our elected officials have their own self-interests at heart. It is too bad that for the most part we have to choose the lesser of two evils (as Jared) put it. I am an independent, however, I lean more towards the conservative side. I just find our society so disheartening sometimes. As good as life is in America now, where will she be in 50 years? Don't know if I want to be around to see.
              Patriotic dissent is a luxury of those protected by better men than they.

              Comment


              • #37
                I totally hear you. I like to think i'm in the middle too, but leaning towards the liberal side. I am very afraid to think about what position america will be in in 50 years as well. It can be a very scary thought.

                "The Gagne T-shirt jersey comes with a complimentary can of gasoline and a set of matches."

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by luvdembroncs
                  So WHO really has America's best interests in mind?
                  I think the answer is the American people. We all have to remember that it is US that makes America great. It's our duty to stay informed, to participate in social and political debate, and to ensure that our political, economic, and social systems remain healthy and are used to their full potential. Political discussions often become heated and serve as potential fuel for further contention and separation, but they are necessary for the betterment of our society. Many millions in this world have no such luxury (much less the ability and mechanism to promote change), and by ignoring this 'right' we are further depleting the very muscle that has ensured our prosperity and success through the years.

                  Many politicians are out for themselves; stopping at nothing to remain in power or to gain the power that comes with being elected, but we, as the American people, must remain focused and be committed to our family, our country, and ourselves. It is us who decides, not them. Don't just believe it; live it. Know in your heart that you are a good person from a good country and don't let the powers that be dictate to you what should or should not be.

                  I'm also afraid of what my children and grandchildren will be living through in 50 years, but I'll be damned if I'm just going to sit back and watch it all go to hell when I have the voice and ability to do something about it.

                  "We cannot choose the time we live in. We can only choose what we do with the time we are given." - - J.R.R. Tolkien via Gandalf
                  Winter is Coming!

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by RunByDesign
                    Perry...

                    I think that your assertion, more or less, that anyone who is dissenting with the current administration is contributing to the deaths and terror worldwide, is ludicris. Think about how many people do not agree with the administrations' approach to this war. Friends, brothers, cousins, fathers and mothers, daughters etc, etc...all of these people are terrorists? More or less?

                    I mean, when you actually think about the consequences of equating your words with the actual meaning, this is basically what you get. Hundreds of thousands of terrorists. All because they disagree with Dubya. Either that or they bear the burden of responsibility for what the terrorists are doing and that is even more rediculous.

                    The terrorists' have always been desperate. I mean, their actions define desperate. I do see your point about how it may embrazen their resolve, however. Blaming Americans for practicing their constitutional rights and laying blame and responsibility on them for the actions of the terrorists, is extremely misguided.

                    More to blame, IMO, is the dominance of the two-party system, that we have succumbed to. There will never be unwavering support from the masses, for any President. The left will always bash the right and vice-versa. They are crazed for power and control. So, if you must blame Americans, blame BOTH of these parties. There will seldom be an instance where one party is actually correct and the other wrong. Most often, they are both incorrect.

                    But, perhaps, aligning ourselves with a one-party system is the way to go, eh? It will focus our resolve and defeat the terrorists once an for all. One party system, no dissent....it worked for the Nazis.
                    Okay, you really really really need to work on your reading comprehension here. You take something that I NEVER SAID and then use it to call me a Nazi? Get a life.

                    They can disagree all they want with 'Dubya'. I was talking about support for the war on terror. Big, big, huge difference.

                    For example, lets look at history. World War Two. We had multiple party systems much like we have today. Yet the country was committed to the war. There was no give. We had a solid resolve and an iron will. Virtually everyone was supporting the war somehow. The threat to the country and the world was real, it was evident, and it needed to be dealt with. Exactly like today.

                    If Americans acted then, like we are acting now, England would have been overrun, the Japanese would have beaten us, and the world would be a completely different place. Why is it so hard to realize this?

                    They are called 'The Greatest Generation' for a reason. They were the greatest. We would have failed.

                    You just wait. When Kerry wins the election, you wait and see how much more screwed up the world will become. And we will have the liberal media to thank for it.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by NJBRONCOSFAN
                      First off, of course you would consider Fox to deliver the "right" news. The whole corporation is owned by a hard-core conservative, so most of their views fall directly in line with yours.
                      Second, where do you get off saying that your view, the conservative view, is the right view? Give me a break. So anyone who isn't a conservative is automatically wrong?
                      This country is based on the idea that people are allowed to have their own opinions, but apparently you think that there is only one proper way of thinking. You talk about others not seeing the other side of the story, but it is blatantly apparent that you only look at one side of the story yourself.
                      Wrong in your assertion, but it sounds to me like you feel that anyone that does not feel that same way you do is wrong.

                      The Fox news network is owned by Murdock, but is not run by him. The news division, if you watch it and look at it with a open mind is pretty down the middle, as is MSNBC and CNBC. The other majors are most heavily to the left. With CNN being the worst in putting out biased information.

                      I totally agree that people should think for themselves, however when the "reporters" don't actually report all the facts. They report what either they or their editors think we need to hear.

                      Then they are not allowed to decide for themselves.

                      That is when I get my hackles up.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Jared
                        1) I never called you a Nazi. Nor was I intending or implying that. I am simply offering a different point of view.

                        2) As someone who is independent, and has a healthy mistrust of both parties, I do not feel that I am undecided because I am misinformed. I am undecied because I feel I am forced to choose between the lesser of 2 evils in most elections. Not enough choice or difference between the two parties. Mostly this is due to the lack of open primaries in most states. (But that is a discussion for another time). Ultimately, I agree with some portions of the the stated platforms of both the major parties. But not enought to warrant an honest endorsement of either one by joining the party.

                        3) Also, as an independent, I find Fox as biased to the right as I find CNN to the left. Every host on Fox is a registered Republican except Colmes, and he is an independent (the FOIA is great!) The reverse is true at CNN. It is disheartening to hear "anchors" interject their opinions when they are interviewing somebody before they can even finish a thought. This happens on BOTH networks. As a viewer I find it frustrating because very few people ever complete a train of thought. I don't care if they do it, but they should be labeled for what they are, opinion shows. An anchor should just read whatever information is available. A reporter should just ask questions and let the answers speak for themselves.

                        4) I can also tell you that living in both big cities and very small towns, middle America papers tend to be conservative, and the big papers tend to be liberal. The big ones are what give the rest of the decent journalists in anywhere USA a bad rep. The TV ones are mostly liberal, but I would say that conservatives long ago decided to stop working for the big 3 broadcast networks for whatever reason. (Which is odd, because if I were an owner or board member of those three, I would definitely have even more conservative issues on fiscal and policy issues and other things than I do now. They tend to help big business.) Anyway, a vacuum will always be filled.

                        I appreciate the exchange of ideas, but understand, I am not endorsing Micheal Moore's movie. I am merely defending his right to say what he wants. Unless he physically threatens the president or is caught selling military secrets to Al Quaeda, he can do what he wants with is money and time. Even if the vast majority of us find it distasteful. if you feel that my doing that, alone, means that I am somehow un-American, I am sorry you feel that way.


                        It was run by design that made the NAZI remarks

                        I was replying in general about my thought and to no one in particular.

                        I am a registered DEMO but in most situations I vote R mainly because in the past they have been the most fiscally conservative

                        The vast majority in this country are uninformed not undecided. Mostly because they are not getting the good info.

                        He does have the legal right to publish or make what movies he so desires.

                        But I also feel that he is morally wrong and is ultimately going to cause more death and destruction.

                        I think that anyone that buys into his drivel really needs to spend some time talking to soldiers that some back from the front so to speak. I see a lot of Returnees, when I talk to them they are proud of what is being accomplished over there and are really sad that they are sticking their necks out trying to make a difference when the networks are pounding us with just the bad stuff, and report nothing about the schools, and hospitals they are fixing up and running.


                        Good post BTW

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Perry1977
                          Okay, you really really really need to work on your reading comprehension here. You take something that I NEVER SAID and then use it to call me a Nazi? Get a life.

                          They can disagree all they want with 'Dubya'. I was talking about support for the war on terror. Big, big, huge difference.

                          For example, lets look at history. World War Two. We had multiple party systems much like we have today. Yet the country was committed to the war. There was no give. We had a solid resolve and an iron will. Virtually everyone was supporting the war somehow. The threat to the country and the world was real, it was evident, and it needed to be dealt with. Exactly like today.

                          If Americans acted then, like we are acting now, England would have been overrun, the Japanese would have beaten us, and the world would be a completely different place. Why is it so hard to realize this?

                          They are called 'The Greatest Generation' for a reason. They were the greatest. We would have failed.

                          You just wait. When Kerry wins the election, you wait and see how much more screwed up the world will become. And we will have the liberal media to thank for it.
                          We were committed to action after 911. But the reasons for that action has been forgotten under the deluge of media negatives, that are spewed forth daily.

                          It will take another 911 type event or worse to wake up the USA left, to the facts of life.

                          Radical Muslims and others in the world do not like what we have accomplished and our station in life. They are jealous and hate us because of it.

                          The Muslim religion is not a belief of hate and death. The radical clerics in the middle east are able to get away with it because the Koran is in the most part unread by the ignorant masses.

                          Until such time as the are educated and can read and interpret it themselves, this cycle of violence will continue. One of the main reasons SCHOOL were one of the highest priorities in the rebuild process.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Perry1977
                            Okay, you really really really need to work on your reading comprehension here. You take something that I NEVER SAID and then use it to call me a Nazi? Get a life.
                            I never said "Perry is a Nazi", just for the record. I was referring to your hypothetical situation. You are the one that typed it, so I don't know why you are getting all bent out of shape about it. You explain to me how this does not imply, at all, a Nazi-like mentality:

                            Originally posted by Perry1977

                            Here is a hypothetical situation:

                            Lets say there is no dissent whatsoever in America. EVERYONE is against the terrorists, and fully supports our troops, their mission, and our Pesident. .
                            If the Presidents' actions are misguided, shouldn't we question them? Is it not our duty to fulfill the other role of Government? We The People?
                            Originally posted by boltzpride619
                            What's so funny is seeing all this mess that the Donks and the fans have placed on themselves. Can you say Raiders.

                            Originally posted by RunByDesign
                            True comedy is observing the Self Imploding Organization that is the Raiders and then asking yourself this question:

                            What separates them (Raiders) from us (Chargers)

                            Answer: Championships.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              I just got this email this afternoon

                              THought this might be pertainent to the coversation. Would be interested in your thoughts.

                              Chaplain Unger is from MCCDC Doctrine Division. He's been in Iraq for the
                              past four months.

                              30 May 2004

                              Dear Friends,

                              This is my third letter from Iraq. I have been working myself into
                              the right mood to do this. Today is the day. In my last two letters
                              I have leaned toward being as upbeat as possible. This time will be different; today I want to talk about Memorial Day, but I will start off by giving my perspective on the Abu Ghraib prison problem.

                              First off, the investigation into the abuses at Abu Ghraib began back in January. That is why the first court martial was ready for
                              trial in May. The senior people here knew about the investigation;
                              the rest of us didn't. By the time the media "broke" the story, the
                              investigation was almost done and the soldiers who had committed the abuses had already been rotated home.

                              Second, I (we) don't see all the news coverage that you in the states see. I do see some Fox News and CNN. Fox editorializes toward the right wing; CNN is the voice of the anti-war movement. I wonder that if CNN had been around in 1942 we might all be speaking German and Japanese.

                              I can tell you this, everything I have heard on CNN is so biased,
                              negative, and out-of-touch that I will never watch CNN for the rest of my life. That being said, when the rest of us found out about the abuses we were shocked and sickened. I think maybe more so than people back home because we are here; these are the people I see every day. The people I see every day who are going out to fix: schools, hospitals, reservoirs, power plants, and sewer systems. They do these things risking sniper fire and
                              hidden explosives. These soldiers are not a handful of bad apples like those at Abu Ghraib, these soldiers number into the thousands. Now think for a second, how much have you seen about that on the news? I believe Abu Ghraib should have been reported, but when I see the fixation of the media on the actions of a few, when the courage shown in reconstruction and the restraint shown in combat by thousands of our people is never shown, I believe this is inexcusable. For the real story of what our people are doing here, go to www.cjtf7.com/index.htm.
                              Click on Coalition News and then Humanitarian Efforts.

                              Third, what happened on that cellblock of Abu Ghraib is what happens when leadership is not out walking around. That is true in the military or in college dorms. I haven't seen it reported in the news, but other soldiers turned in the soldiers who did this. If the dirt bags that committed those abuses had been turned loose among the troops here it would've been ugly.
                              I haven't heard any comments about them coming from soldiers that didn't express a hope that they would get the maximum punishment. A few leaders need to get demoted too.

                              As per the "outrage", if you were "outraged" by this, good. I was.
                              However, I would like to ask Arab governments and our own media elites, "Were you just as outraged by what happened under Saddam? If so, you didn't show it."

                              Here is what people need to understand: the interrogation of
                              prisoners of war is a little tougher than what the typical thug gets
                              by the local police. I went to Survival, Evasion, Rescue, and Escape (SERE) School back in 1995. I am more proud of completing that course than anything I have ever done. Also, I would never do it again. After playing hide and seek with "bad guys" in California in March, we all got caught, knocked around, froze, went hungry, sleep deprived, threatened with worse, and then interrogated. Here's the deal: when interrogation is done correctly, people don't break so much as they leak. (The purpose of SERE is to teach you how not to leak. That is the classified part of the school.) The interrogator wants them to leak in a way so that the prisoner doesn't even know he is leaking.
                              When someone breaks, as opposed to leaking, they usually give out a data dump of gibberish and then physiologically shuts down. A good interrogator avoids that. If you hurt them or scare them too badly, they quit leaking. Interrogators ask the same question about ten times, ten different ways. Disoriented people leak and they don't even know it. What most Americans think of when they think of POWs being interrogated is what they remember of our pilots in North Vietnam.
                              The abuse our people went through in Vietnam wasn't to get
                              intelligence; it was to exploit them for propaganda purposes. I
                              mention this to put the term "abuse" in context. When a terrorist
                              here in Iraq or jaywalkers back in the states report jailhouse "abuse," what does it mean? When we catch a guy red-handed restocking his weapons stock and question him,
                              withholding his TV privileges isn't enough. He won't be happy, but
                              neither will he be destroyed or scared for life. He will tell his
                              buddies, "I didn't tell them anything." In fact he will have told us a lot.

                              As I said, I had to work myself into a mindset to talk about this. To work around horror without out letting the horror seep into your soul is a spiritual battle. This week I worked with a National Guard soldier who had to clean up after a convoy of civilian aid workers were killed when an Improvised Explosive Device (IED) went off on the road into Baghdad. He is a carpenter in civilian life, but this week he was out on a highway picking up arms and legs while watching out for snipers. He was cleaning up after monsters. Some other young Americans were put in charge of guarding monsters and then became monsters. Care of the soul is serious business.
                              That is part of the reason why I became a Navy Chaplain.
                              The other reason is the people. The folks I have known in the military are more interesting to be around than anybody else I know. This leads me to Memorial Day. Earlier this month I went to Camp Cooke at Taji. (To lend perspective, Taji is really north Baghdad; I am in west Baghdad.)
                              The 39th Brigade (Arkansas National Guard) is stationed there. I
                              didn't know any of them, but I wanted to see my home-state Guard here in Iraq. So I badgered my way into flying up there for two days.
                              They are stationed in the old Iraqi army air defense school. Unlike
                              downtown Baghdad, the old air defense school was turned into rubble.
                              It is getting better, but it was like living in a junkyard.
                              Their first month in Iraq was tough. These soldiers patrol the roughest part of Baghdad. While I was there, the Chaplain of the 39th told me this story: One of the old troopers who came was a 52 year-old Sgt. who had already done his 20+ years and had retired. But his son was in the 39th, and when the father found out they were coming over here, he reenlisted.
                              On their first week in country, Camp Cooke was attacked by rockets and the first rocket that landed killed the father.

                              I was born in 1958 and came of age when the Vietnam War and the anti-war movement were both in full swing. It has taken me years to put this into words, but I believe that as bad as that war was, the legacy of the anti-war movement was worse. The anti-war movement gave rise to the moral superiority of non-involvement and non-commitment.
                              While that may have worked to help draft-dodgers sleep at night, it's not much of a strategy of how to go through life. Taken to its
                              logical conclusion the message is: don't commit to your county, don't commit to your spouse, and don't commit to your kids, church, or community. Don't commit to cleaning up your own mess or any cause that demands any more from you than
                              rhetoric.
                              This was the mindset in which our country was firmly stuck. Until
                              9/11, some woke up. Kids came down and joined the service. To the dismay of some of their teachers, parents, and the media elites, they came down here and raised their hand in front of the flag. And they are still coming to the shock of the non- committers. The Marines have more enlisting than their two boot camps can handle.

                              And we are all here together for Memorial Day 2004. Old National
                              Guardsmen, grandfathers, and single moms, Texans and Mexicans, Surfers and Rednecks. A few weeks ago an Illinois National Guardsman, mother of three, was hit six times, saved by her body armor, but lost part of her nose. She stayed on her 50 caliber, firing on the bad guys, protecting the convoy. She said she was thinking of her kids and the guys she was with.
                              Commitment is love acted out. It is sad that the non-committers missed that.
                              They and their moral high-ground haven't been near a mass grave. The kids I see and eat with every day still want to help this country, in spite of getting shot at while doing it. That is love acted out. You either get it, or you don't.

                              During my time in Iraq I won't be able to see any of the Biblical
                              sites that are here. But a few weeks ago in Taji I got to stand on
                              some holy ground, where a father died when he went to war just to be with his son.

                              Sincerely yours,

                              Steven P. Unger
                              LCDR, CHC, USN
                              Multi National Corps-Iraq

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                I never said "Perry is a Nazi", just for the record. I was referring to your hypothetical situation. You are the one that typed it, so I don't know why you are getting all bent out of shape about it. You explain to me how this does not imply, at all, a Nazi-like mentality:


                                quote:
                                --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                Originally posted by Perry1977

                                Here is a hypothetical situation:

                                Lets say there is no dissent whatsoever in America. EVERYONE is against the terrorists, and fully supports our troops, their mission, and our Pesident. .

                                --------------------------------------------------------------------------------



                                If the Presidents' actions are misguided, shouldn't we question them? Is it not our duty to fulfill the other role of Government? We The People?

                                Do you realize what I described there was this country in 1941-1945? And you think they were all Nazis? News flash, it was this mentality that kicked Nazi ass and ridded the world of facism. Take a minute, step back, and look how diluted you are. Do you not remember 9/11?

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