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  • Originally posted by Southstander View Post
    This is a breif listing of these drivers accomplishments. No objective person would put Tony above them. I will get to the other drivers later. Smoke is a very good if not great race driver, but he is not better then the people I listed.
    I never said he was, perhaps you should go back & read what i originally posted. I never said he is the greatest but one of the greatest.

    Now if you can't admit he is among some of the greats of all time then that is not my problem, perhaps you just don't care for him but it doesn't change anything, HE IS GREAT

    And for the record he has never been caught cheating like good old mr. 5 time. And also your stats... i like how you didn't address anything i mentioned about road courses or stewart being the only driver in history to win a cup title & an Indy Car title.

    And one last thing since you brought up numbers... Jeff Gordon is one of the best of all time, i have no problem admiting that but how about the numbers for him since tony started in nascar, seems like a fair thing to look at.

    In the 13 years since tony came along jeff has 43 wins to tony's 44. Jeff has just 1 of his 4 championships to tony's 3. Also tony has won at least one race all 13 years & outside of 2008 he has won at least 2 times every year while jeff can't say the same, 2008 & 2010 he went winless.
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    • Originally posted by BroncosFanInPA View Post
      I never said he was, perhaps you should go back & read what i originally posted. I never said he is the greatest but one of the greatest.

      Now if you can't admit he is among some of the greats of all time then that is not my problem, perhaps you just don't care for him but it doesn't change anything, HE IS GREAT

      And for the record he has never been caught cheating like good old mr. 5 time. And also your stats... i like how you didn't address anything i mentioned about road courses or stewart being the only driver in history to win a cup title & an Indy Car title.

      And one last thing since you brought up numbers... Jeff Gordon is one of the best of all time, i have no problem admiting that but how about the numbers for him since tony started in nascar, seems like a fair thing to look at.

      In the 13 years since tony came along jeff has 43 wins to tony's 44. Jeff has just 1 of his 4 championships to tony's 3. Also tony has won at least one race all 13 years & outside of 2008 he has won at least 2 times every year while jeff can't say the same, 2008 & 2010 he went winless.

      I DID address you point or did you miss Andretti? He won F1, USEC, and Indy. He was a Champion in multipule divisons. You do know that F1 and Indy encompasses road courses right?

      I NEVER said he was not great driver. You ASSUMED that. I was simply stating that are alot of drivers that are better then him. Stats will prove this.

      I only listwd four in detal if you think he is better then those four you are sadly mistaken. I did not get into AJ Foyt. Stewart himself would tell you that AJ was better then him.

      That alone puts him out of the top five ALL TIME. I think that is where you and I are failing to communicate. Is he one of the best currently in NASCAR? You bet your sweet bippy he is. Does he have a chance to pass other names on the all time great list? Yes, and I know he WILL do that if he keeps it up.

      To yur point about Jimmie getting caught cheating, As yoi said Tony just has never been caught. Cheating is as big a part of NASCAR and its history as motor oil.
      Also Tony had HUGE help from Hendrick with engines. So lay off the Jimmie "cheating" that does not help your case.

      Finally about Jeff, yes he has basically the same amount of wins, and that will change either way in the comming years but that extra title tilts it in Gordon's favor.
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      • Originally posted by Southstander View Post
        Finally about Jeff, yes he has basically the same amount of wins, and that will change either way in the comming years but that extra title tilts it in Gordon's favor.
        So are you saying jeff & jimmie are two of the greatest but tony is not? I'm just curious because i don't know how you could claim gordon is one of the best but tony is not when you compare the numbers against each other.

        And as far as johnson goes, between he & stewart they have combined for 8 of the last 10 championships & that is amazing considering the level of competetion over the past 10 years. In fact this year alone there was 18 different race winners which makes the two of them dominating even more impressive.

        See back in the day there were probably only 5 or 6 guys that could win in nascar & now you have nearly half the field capable of winning, so if those guys were racing now, i don't think they are gonna have the same numbers.
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        • Originally posted by Southstander View Post
          I do not know if I would go that far. He is a very good driver but I would put Petty, Jimmie, Gordon, Earnhardt, DW, Junior Johnson, Andretti, The Unser family, Foyt, Rick Mears, and Schumacher ahead of him.
          Originally posted by Southstander View Post
          I NEVER said he was not great driver. You ASSUMED that.
          So how would one interpret the statement at the top?
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          • .Are you serious? Did you not read my last response? Do you honestly thing he is better then the drivers I listed? I have said repeatedly that Stewart is very good driver. Did you miss that part where I said he is one of the best in NASCAR right now? I guess you overlooked where I said he has a chance to pass some of the names that I listed. To your other post talking about Jimmie, Jeff and Tony...

            Jimmie won five Championship in a row, has two more Cups then Smoke. Hr also has won the Daytona 500, something Tony has not done. He also has one more wins at the Brickyard.

            While Jeff has one fewer wins then Tony he has more Championship (1), more Daytona 500 (3), more Brickyard 400s (2).

            This is why I say they are better. To me they have better stats. The stats can and will change. Jimmie and Jeff can add to thier lead or Tony CAN pass them.

            I will state it again, please listen this time Tony is one of the best drivers in NASCAR today.However their are drivers in the history of Racing that are and where better.
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            • Originally posted by Southstander View Post
              . To your other post talking about Jimmie, Jeff and Tony...

              Jimmie won five Championship in a row, has two more Cups then Smoke. Hr also has won the Daytona 500, something Tony has not done. He also has one more wins at the Brickyard.

              While Jeff has one fewer wins then Tony he has more Championship (1), more Daytona 500 (3), more Brickyard 400s (2).

              This is why I say they are better. To me they have better stats.
              Whatever dude! All you want to do is focus on the other drivers & what they have done & not what stewart has accomplished in his whole career & not just nascar because i'll tell you this, you want to throw out gordon has one more championship but fail to acknowledge stewart won the IRL Championship during the years gordon was winning his other title. But i guess that don't count in your book because you want to pick & choose your stats.

              And then throwing out johnson winning the daytona 500? big dam deal! You realize the great Dale Sr. did not win it until his 20th attempt so i guess he was just ok until then right? If jimmie is so dam great then why does he only have 1 win on the road courses while stewart has 7? Real racers win on all tracks!

              Whatever, it's obvious you do not like tony & there is no talking to you because i never once proclaimed him to be the greatest thing to sit in a car but rather one of the greats & all you do is get all defensive & point out what others have done, so that's it i'm done with this conversation & have nothing more to say to you!
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              • I do not hate Tony at all. You said he was one of the all time greats, and I simply said he is not better then about 10-15 drivers. That puts him #16. You have never said how he ranks against those drivers. You never addressed my points or stats. The drivers I sighted also won IROC titles.

                How much plainer do I have to state this. I even put it in large font. This time I will bold it, make it LARGER and in Green.
                Anthony Wayne Stewart is one
                of the GREATEST drivers in
                NASCAR today.
                Are we clear on this? Did that get threw to you?

                Is it wrong to say someone that won Five Championships in a row is a better driver then one that one three? I look at ALL the stats, not just ones to fit an argument.

                Did you really just say who cares if Jimmie won a Daytona 500 or not? While it took Dale 20 Years to win one, how big was it when he finally did? It was HUGE! It added to his career. You bring up road courses the drivers I listed are alao good at road courses. For the record on the IROC Stewart did won it in 2006 the drivers I listed won it in 1975 (Al Unser), 1976 & 1977 (AJ Foyt), 1978 (Al Unser), 1979 (Mario), 1986 & 1988 (Unser Jr), 1990, 1999, 2000 (Dale). If you want me to credit Tony with it, then you have to credit my guys it goes both ways.

                Here is another example DW has 40 more wins and equal Championships. If you want to say the competition is tougher now, thats fine. So they would be tied. Hiwever DW has Daytona to his name they are the tie breaker. Thats why I brought them up with Jimmie they help to "break ties and give insights to where drivers should ne ranked.

                In my last post I compaired Stewart to only two other drivers in today's NASCAR becuase I think ONLY TWO people racing right now are better then him. If you do the math that puts him third. If I was a hater would I put him THIRD? Behind only a driver that won five Cups in a row and one that has one fewer win, 1 more Cup, EQUAL footing on road courses, and more Major race wins. How on earth is that Hating on him?

                One sunday on Facebook I said this Championship moment was one of the Top 10 Championship moments of all time and I am a hater? Please tell me where I am wrong? Who on the list of drivers that I listed would you put him above? Drivers with more wins, Drivers with more Championship? What makes him better? If you can prove it I will listen.
                Last edited by Southstander; 11-22-2011, 08:21 PM.
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                • It's good to see you guys having a nice civil conversation.

                  Let's keep it that way. :thumb:
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                  • This is not my post but facts from his web page & as i said in my previous post i am done with this conversation so leave me alone because i will no longer reply to anything you have to say!!!!!

                    Pick a racing series. Choose a style of racecar. Name a venue. Chances are, Tony Stewart has proven victorious.

                    The driver of the No. 14 Office Depot/Mobil 1 Chevrolet in the NASCAR Sprint Cup Series has scored 12 championships since he first wheeled a go-kart in 1978 at a Westport, Ind., racetrack.

                    His most widely known titles are the three he scored in NASCAR’s pinnacle series. The three-time Sprint Cup Series champion earned his first crown in 2002 by beating veteran racer Mark Martin by 38 points and a second in 2005 when he bested Greg Biffle by 35 points. His third title was earned in 2011 after winning the season finale at Homestead Speedway to edge Carl Edwards on a tiebreaker (most wins). It was the first championship for a driver/owner since 1992 when Alan Kulwicki accomplished the feat.

                    In 2009 Stewart became the first driver/owner to win a Sprint Cup race since Ricky Rudd was victorious in 1998. Stewart found victory lane five times during the season including the prestigious Sprint All-Star Race and the million dollar purse that accompanied it.

                    Championships begat championships for Stewart, as the Columbus, Ind.-native came to NASCAR in 1999 by way of the IRL IndyCar Series, where he was the series champion in 1997. And before he made his mark in Indy cars, Stewart made a name for himself in the rough-and-tumble world of the United States Auto Club (USAC). He has four USAC championships, including what at the time was an unprecedented win of USAC’s “Triple Crown.”

                    USAC’s top-three national touring divisions are Midget, Sprint and Silver Crown. After winning the Midget title in 1994 and finishing 10th and sixth in the Sprint and Silver Crown divisions, respectively, Stewart went out and set a new standard of excellence in 1995 by winning all three divisions. No driver had ever won the Sprint, Midget and Silver Crown championships – divisions that run three very different types of racecars which compete on both asphalt and dirt – in a single season until Stewart came along.

                    A hint of Stewart’s impending success could be seen when he was still a youngster, for in 1980 at age eight, Stewart had won his first championship – a 4-cycle rookie junior class championship at the Columbus Fairgrounds. Two more karting championships followed, but this time on a national level – the 1983 International Karting Federation Grand National championship and the 1987 World Karting Association National championship.

                    Throw in a title from the 30-year-old International Race of Champions (IROC) during that series’ final year of operation in 2006, and it’s clear that Stewart is in a league of his own.

                    He is the first and only driver to have won championships in stock cars, Indy cars and open-wheel Midget, Sprint and Silver Crown cars. And his three NASCAR Sprint Cup Series championships made him one of just 9 drivers who have scored three or more Cup titles.

                    Along the way, Stewart has won some of the biggest races in motorsports. He is a two-time winner of the Allstate 400 at the Brickyard (2005 and 2007), a six-time winner of the season-opening NASCAR Nationwide Series race at Daytona (Fla.) International Speedway (2005, 2006, 2008, 2009, 2010 and 2011) and a two-time winner of the famed Chili Bowl, an all-star Midget race at the Tulsa (Okla.) Expo Raceway (2002 and 2007). He’s also notched wins in such famed USAC races as the Copper World Classic at Phoenix International Raceway (2000), the Turkey Night Grand Prix at Irwindale (Calif.) Speedway (2000) and the 4-Crown Nationals at Eldora Speedway in Rossburg, Ohio (1995).

                    And before he was a race winner and a championship contender, Stewart was a rookie on the rise. The Hoosier won rookie of the year honors in Sprint Cup (1999), the Indianapolis 500 (1996) and USAC (1991).

                    “When I started racing competitively when I was about seven or eight, getting a trophy that was bigger than the other kids’ was all I cared about,” said Stewart, who enters his 11th year in the vaunted Sprint Cup Series in 2009. “I couldn’t have asked for more out of this life. I feel like I’m a very, very fortunate person, so no matter what happens, no matter how long I race or don’t race, the goals and everything that happens from here is just icing on the cake. I’ve been very lucky to do the things I’ve done.”

                    Stewart’s racing career began at age seven behind the wheel of a go-kart, with his father, Nelson, serving as car owner and crew chief.

                    “He never let me settle for second,” said Stewart of his dad, who still frequents races whenever his schedule permits. “He didn’t like it when we ran second, and he knew that I didn’t like it when we ran second. If he saw that I wasn’t giving 100 percent, then he was on me pretty hard about it. He pushed me to be better.

                    “He never pressured me to be the best racecar driver in the world, but he did pressure me to be the best racecar driver that I could be. He never compared me to anybody else. He expected that what I could do was what I could do. He never said that because this guy over here could do something that I should be able to do it, too. He pushed me hard, but he was fair about it. That’s probably why you see so much fire in me today, because he always wanted me to be the best that I could be.”

                    By 1989, Stewart began the transition from go-karts to higher-horsepower, open-wheel machines. He raced Three-Quarter Midgets before turning his attention to the USAC ranks in 1991.

                    His first USAC championship in 1994 came to fruition thanks to five wins in 22 starts in the National Midget category. It as a prelude to Stewart’s historic “Triple Crown” triumph in 1995.

                    That success led Stewart to earn a ride in the fledgling IndyCar Series. He made the most of it by winning the series championship in 1997, which sewed the seeds of Stewart’s current success in NASCAR. A slate of 22 NASCAR Nationwide Series races with Joe Gibbs Racing in 1998 prepared Stewart for his assault on the Cup ranks in 1999.

                    During that remarkable rookie season, where Stewart won three races en route to the rookie of the year title, he also competed in both the Indianapolis 500 and the Coca-Cola 600 on the same day. The grueling trek, known as “Double Duty,” saw Stewart compete in an Indy car at Indianapolis before flying to Concord, N.C., to compete in the Coca-Cola 600 that evening at Lowe’s Motor Speedway. He became the first driver to complete both races in the same day, finishing ninth and fourth, respectively. All told, Stewart drove a total of 1,090 miles.

                    Stewart repeated this feat in 2001, when he drove an Indy car for Chip Ganassi at Indy. He bettered his mark from 1999 by finishing on the lead lap in sixth before jetting off to Concord for the Coca-Cola 600. He improved that finish as well, coming home third in the 600-miler. When it was all said and done, Stewart completed all 1,100 miles – breaking his own record for most racing miles driven in one day.
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                    • Weather you chose to read this, or respond to this is upto you. I think the major problem we both had is that we were talking "at" each other rather then to each other. We were to busy trying to prove the other person wrong rather then see where the might be right. We took one point and missed the rest. Let's start from the beginning and see where we went wrong. The comment that started it all off was about Smoke being one of the greatest racers of alltime. Which to me is between five to ten drivers tops. I will admot that when I read that I only thought of his NASCAR career, so my first thought was strictly about NASCAR drivers and racing only. Thats when I started to think of names like Petty, Dale, Jimmie and Jeff. As I started to list them my mind went to other series and that is where I came up with names lik The Unsers, Andretti, Mears, Foyt then Schumacher in F1.

                      I think you took my post like I was trying to bury and belittle Stewart. I was not clear enough on how I was ranking them. Which added fuel to the fire.

                      Then both of us started to throw out stats to prove our points not knowing that we were proving to a cetrin extent each others points. I do owe you an apology with Andretti I was compairing his entire career to Stewart's, but with drivers like Little Al I only took Unser's CART career against Tony's NASCAR career. Which is unfair to both drivers. I was looking at Stewart's 3 NASCAR titles to Unser's 2 Cart and 2 Indy 500 wins as well as how well he did in IROC and concluded that Al was better. Based on those facts alone I know you would say Stewart is better and that's ok, it is impossible to complety remove all basis. When you look at the total Picture in all levels both drivers have more to their resumes then that. Al has five total Championships CART (1990, 1994), IROC (1986, 1988) and Can-Am (1992) to Tony's eight USEC Triple Crown (Silver Crown, Sprint and Midget) IRL (1997), IROC (2006), Cup (2002, 2005, 2001). When looked at that way it is clear that STEWART is the better driver.

                      I think that was where our discussion fell apart. When I kept saying he is one of the best in NASCAR today, it came across that I did not care about what else he did. Which was not true. In my effort to praise him I was sounding like I was was doing the opposite. For that I am sorry.

                      In one of your reply you states that you where not saying he was the best thing ever behind the wheel, rahter then addressing that out right I glossed over it to prove he very thing you said. Which only add to our frustration.
                      I also want to thank you for educating me avout just how good Stewart is. I will admit that I did not know he was as successful outside of NASCAR is he is. I also was mistaken on how many wins Tony has which caused me to come to a inaccurate conclusion.

                      I repect you and your opnions. I hope you execpt my humble apology.


                      IF and ony if you choose to reply I was love to know who your Top Drivers of All Time are in the following catagories NASCAR, Current in NASCAR and all of Motorsports.
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                      • Originally posted by Southstander View Post
                        I repect you and your opnions. I hope you execpt my humble apology.


                        IF and ony if you choose to reply I was love to know who your Top Drivers of All Time are in the following catagories NASCAR, Current in NASCAR and all of Motorsports.
                        Fair enough, & i too am sorry things got to the point they did. I'm not here to fight or argue with anybody but have good discussions which we kinda had. Also i don't want to not post in this thread because i like Nascar & really who post in this thread besides the two of us? So if i don't reply to you then i'd be like talking to myself which is no fun.

                        It would be nice though if we at least had a few others come in & talk nascar but i guess we just don't have many fans of it on these boards.

                        As far as listing who i think are the top drivers, i will give that alot of thought & consideration & make a post at a later time, because that is not exactly an easy thing to come up with, so i want to think it over for a bit.
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                        • I loves our talk. I loved how we challenged each other and back up our opnions with facts.
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                          • 14 weeks till the Great American Race.
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                            • To help keep this thread alive I will be post poc of the great cars, drivers, tracks in NASCAR history.
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                              • Ask me about My Jesus and how to have a relationship with Him.

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