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  • Originally posted by Spice 1 View Post
    So now it's LeBron is not top 5, because he complains about not getting fouls? You realize he's one of the most physical players in the league? George Mikan is one of the most underrated players in NBA History based primarily on the impact he had on the league at the time he played. If Mikan played against Wilt Chamberlain, Kareem, Russell, Olajuwon, Shaq, etc. he would've gotten owned. Athletes improve from one era to the next.

    And Wilt Chamberlain is definitely one of the all time greats. He had a bad attitude, and terrible teammates early on. Those two things have nothing to do with how good he was on the court. Bill Russell got the better of him one on one once or twice. Most of the time though, Chamberlain completely outperformed every player on both teams, and still lost. The reason was because the Boston Celtics were an all star team, and the Warriors and Sixers were usually junk with Wilt. As of right now, I have Russell ranked ahead of Wilt anyway. I used to have Wilt ranked higher, but through conversations with various people, I've reconsidered. That's called growth through productive debate.
    George Mikan is considered the greatest player of his era, and one of the most dominant players ever. I wouldn't call that underrated by any means. Many haven't heard of him, that's all there is to that argument, and it's not a good one.

    Wilt is another victim of circumstance, due to the era he played in. Sure he is another great, but I don't believe he would be better than an Olajuwon or Shaq if he played with them. More than likely the next tier of guys like Robinson and Ewing.

    As for your last condescending sentence, I don't need any growth to know LeBron doesn't belong in the top 3, just common sense and some perspective.
    Anonymity is cowardice, and cowards are not known for their wisdom.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Spice 1 View Post
      So why are you arguing in hypotheticals?

      I posted the facts weeks ago. Elway posted the facts. HUMCALC posted the facts.
      Those facts only have any relevance when considered within the era he played in. Why is this simple fact so difficult to understand?

      When the discussion is about greatest of all time you have compare players to others, many of which never competed against one another. This is going to lead to hypotheticals and opinions, because you have no direct comparison to cite.
      Anonymity is cowardice, and cowards are not known for their wisdom.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by JJBroncoFan View Post
        Fair question, so let me add some perspective and context for you. At one point, in this thread or another, I was debating with someone about where LeBron ranked all time. Somewhere in that debate a remark was made that lead me to believe that poster had James higher than Jordan, which is preposterous. I began saying "the legends" as in the best of the best. That's where that came from. I certainly do not believe that those outside that top 3 are not legends, just not within that small group. So yes in that right LeBron is certainly a legend and a hell of a basketball player. I was a huge fan of his before "the announcement" or whatever the hell he called it lol.

        To answer you question about top 10 list that's impossible for me, you could ask me ever day for the next year and get a different list from #4-10.
        Impossible? I understand that lists change as you're knowledge improves and perspective changes, so just do a 1-5 and 6-10. It's easy.

        1-5
        Michael Jordan
        Kareem Abdul Jabbar
        Bill Russell
        LeBron James
        Wilt Chamberlain

        6-10
        Shaquille O'Neal
        Larry Bird
        Kobe Bryant
        Earvin Johnson
        Hakeem Olajuwon

        11-15
        Jerry West
        Oscar Robertson
        Karl Malone
        Julius Erving
        Tim Duncan

        16-20
        Charles Barkley
        Isiah Thomas
        Bob Pettit
        Moses Malone
        David Robinson

        21-25
        John Stockton
        Rick Barry
        Patrick Ewing
        Elgin Baylor
        Clyde Drexler

        See. Easy.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by JJBroncoFan View Post
          George Mikan is considered the greatest player of his era, and one of the most dominant players ever. I wouldn't call that underrated by any means. Many haven't heard of him, that's all there is to that argument, and it's not a good one.

          Wilt is another victim of circumstance, due to the era he played in. Sure he is another great, but I don't believe he would be better than an Olajuwon or Shaq if he played with them. More than likely the next tier of guys like Robinson and Ewing.

          As for your last condescending sentence, I don't need any growth to know LeBron doesn't belong in the top 3, just common sense and some perspective.
          None of that made any sense in context to what I said. That was a giant contradiction. There's nothing condescending about what I said either. First you say LeBron is Karl Malone. Then you say he's not top 5. Now you say he's not top 3. Which one is it?

          You want to say LeBron isn't great like Kobe, and then tell me it's because he had to go play with someone else. Kobe got drafted by the Lakers, bro. If he played for Charlotte he wouldn't have won anything. Zo was gone. LJ was gone. He would've run to LA first chance he got, and then you'd be making some other unsubstantiated hypothetical argument, because that one wouldn't work anymore. You're arguments are all contradictions, and you refuse to address the substance in my posts.
          Last edited by Spice 1; 07-04-2016, 08:25 PM.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Spice 1 View Post
            Impossible? I understand that lists change as you're knowledge improves and perspective changes, so just do a 1-5 and 6-10. It's easy.

            1-5
            Michael Jordan
            Kareem Abdul Jabbar
            Bill Russell
            LeBron James
            Wilt Chamberlain

            6-10
            Shaquille O'Neal
            Larry Bird
            Kobe Bryant
            Earvin Johnson
            Hakeem Olajuwon

            11-15
            Jerry West
            Oscar Robertson
            Karl Malone
            Julius Erving
            Tim Duncan

            16-20
            Charles Barkley
            Isiah Thomas
            Bob Pettit
            Moses Malone
            David Robinson

            21-25
            John Stockton
            Rick Barry
            Patrick Ewing
            Elgin Baylor
            Clyde Drexler

            See. Easy.
            It's not that easy for me, too many names fighting each other in my head. On a side not to have LeBron over both Magic and Bird is a tragedy, and on America day, shame.
            Anonymity is cowardice, and cowards are not known for their wisdom.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Spice 1 View Post
              None of that made any sense in context to what I said. That was a giant contradiction. There's nothing condescending about what I said either. First you say LeBron is Karl Malone. Then you say he's not top 5. Now you say he's not top 3. Which one is it?

              You want to say LeBron isn't great like Kobe, and then tell me it's because he had to go play with someone else. Kobe got drafted by the Lakers, bro. If he played for Charlotte he wouldn't have won anything. Zo was gone. LJ was gone. He would've run to LA first chance he got, and then you'd be making some other unsubstantiated hypothetical argument, because that one wouldn't work.
              Kobe didn't get drafted by the Lakers bro, he was traded. Plus, who's to say he chooses the Lakers down the road as a free agent. Maybe he goes back to Philadelphia bro. It's ironic that you don't like me making assumptions about queen James but love making them yourself, weird.
              Anonymity is cowardice, and cowards are not known for their wisdom.

              Comment


              • Oh and on the Mikan point, I can't understand what you mean about him being underrated in any context. They use to PO his teammates by putting up signs that read "George Mikan vs insert opponent name" lol. He wasn't underrated while he played. Just because fans today don't know his name doesn't make him underrated, fans are just ignorant.
                Anonymity is cowardice, and cowards are not known for their wisdom.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by JJBroncoFan View Post
                  Kobe didn't get drafted by the Lakers bro, he was traded. Plus, who's to say he chooses the Lakers down the road as a free agent. Maybe he goes back to Philadelphia bro. It's ironic that you don't like me making assumptions about queen James but love making them yourself, weird.
                  Holy cow. You know how I know you aren't reading my posts properly. I stated that he was traded in my first post showing you how your fairy tale hypothetical argument was broken. And still, you refuse to address the point.

                  You're either a troll or you're in denial. I'll take your word for it, and assume it's the latter.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by JJBroncoFan View Post
                    Disagree, he has done all that in a pretty weak era of basketball all while teaming up with other stars. You're free to have your own opinion, I'm not trying to change it. Imo, you put LeBron in with the era of true legends and you get another Karl Malone. He wouldn't know what to do with himself in an era where fake superstars can't run off and team up.
                    People keep saying this era doesn't have the same talent as the 80s or 90s but is that really true? There are a ton of players with superstar potential right now. In fact there are only a handful of teams that don't have a true superstar on their team. And the ones that don't, they probably have a guy or two that will develop into a superstar.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by beastlyskronk View Post
                      People keep saying this era doesn't have the same talent as the 80s or 90s but is that really true? There are a ton of players with superstar potential right now. In fact there are only a handful of teams that don't have a true superstar on their team. And the ones that don't, they probably have a guy or two that will develop into a superstar.
                      I guess that depends on your definition of superstar. I would be willing to bet that most of it is stat driven which isn't automatically a bad thing. I have watched both eras and these stats are not the same imo.
                      Anonymity is cowardice, and cowards are not known for their wisdom.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by JJBroncoFan View Post
                        Kobe didn't get drafted by the Lakers bro, he was traded. Plus, who's to say he chooses the Lakers down the road as a free agent. Maybe he goes back to Philadelphia bro. It's ironic that you don't like me making assumptions about queen James but love making them yourself, weird.
                        Or maybe he teams up with Tim Duncan and David Robinson. Or maybe he does go to Philly, let's be honest here, Iverson probably ends up with a ring or 5 at that point. How many people do you have above LBJ that you think could win 3 games in a row with 2 on the road against the best team in the regular season ever?

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                        • I'm hearing Wade to the Cavs lol.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Spice 1 View Post
                            Holy cow. You know how I know you aren't reading my posts properly. I stated that he was traded in my first post showing you how your fairy tale hypothetical argument was broken. And still, you refuse to address the point.

                            You're either a troll or you're in denial. I'll take your word for it, and assume it's the latter.
                            You like to poke but don't like it back huh? It's all good, I addressed the point. If you weren't being so protective I think you would be able to see that.
                            Anonymity is cowardice, and cowards are not known for their wisdom.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by beastlyskronk View Post
                              Or maybe he teams up with Tim Duncan and David Robinson. Or maybe he does go to Philly, let's be honest here, Iverson probably ends up with a ring or 5 at that point. How many people do you have above LBJ that you think could win 3 games in a row with 2 on the road against the best team in the regular season ever?
                              The maybe is the point at this juncture. Apparently assumptions and hypotheticals are okay only if you're a LeBron fan lol. Personally I don't think any other superstar with an ego could coexist with Iverson. As far as the last question I think the Bulls and other teams we're discussing would probably beat the Cavs or Warriors in 4 or 5.
                              Anonymity is cowardice, and cowards are not known for their wisdom.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Spice 1 View Post
                                Impossible? I understand that lists change as you're knowledge improves and perspective changes, so just do a 1-5 and 6-10. It's easy.

                                1-5
                                Michael Jordan
                                Kareem Abdul Jabbar
                                Bill Russell
                                LeBron James
                                Wilt Chamberlain

                                6-10
                                Shaquille O'Neal
                                Larry Bird
                                Kobe Bryant
                                Earvin Johnson
                                Hakeem Olajuwon

                                11-15
                                Jerry West
                                Oscar Robertson
                                Karl Malone
                                Julius Erving
                                Tim Duncan

                                16-20
                                Charles Barkley
                                Isiah Thomas
                                Bob Pettit
                                Moses Malone
                                David Robinson

                                21-25
                                John Stockton
                                Rick Barry
                                Patrick Ewing
                                Elgin Baylor
                                Clyde Drexler

                                See. Easy.
                                What? No JR Rider? Lol

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