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  • Originally posted by DenverBlood View Post
    Also Elway everyone is talking about how gassed Lebron looked last night. For the first time ever I think I honestly feel bad for him. I mean how could he not be gassed? The rest of the Cavs were absolute trash. Pure definition of having to carry a team for 48 minutes. And over a 2 1/2 month postseason you're going to have games where you just can't do it anymore.

    I mean 26 points and 10 rebounds isn't a bad night. But when the rest of the team isn't getting it done at all you get fatigued and the turnovers happen. 7-8 years ago I'd have probably criticized him for tiring out by the 4th quarter. But I don't see how he couldn't have been gassed with the rest of the teams performance. This could quite possibly be one of the worst Cavs rosters he's ever been teamed with. And he still has them at 2 wins in the Eastern finals.

    And I still expect him to muster up a game 6 win and a tough game 7 win or lose.
    Originally posted by DenverBlood View Post
    You know many of us are saying the same thing for the Celtics right?

    Joking with you aside though I fully expect one of these two teams to choke on these leads. I don't play the NBA is rigged card. However I find it extremely hard to believe the NBA will be happy with a Celtics vs Rockets NBA finals. When the ratings should be higher for a Lebron vs Warriors or a Lebron vs Rockets finals. Much more star power.

    I see some very lopsided officiating coming in the game 6's for the home teams. Although I don't think Lebron needs it to blow out Boston. Boston just isn't good on the road and the Cavs are good at home. That should be a blowout without sketchy officiating.

    But with CP3 out I see the Warriors forcing a game 7 as well.

    Where it could get sketchy is with officiating in the game 7's. Again I don't believe the NBa is rigged. But there could be some official influence to try to get a higher star power finals.
    Not that I called something many of you didn't also see coming. But the NBA is so predictable. Not really sure anyone believed a Rockets vs Celtics series was coming when both were up 3-2. On to yet another Cavs and Warriors finals.

    I actually don't agree with Elway predicting a Warriors sweep though. The way they have struggled defensively and even a little offensively for their standards I can see the Cavs making things a lot tougher than last year and stretching this thing out.
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    • I just want the Cavs to keep each game within 10 points. LeBron probably has a triple double each game if they are competitive. I really just don't want to see a team miss 111 points worth of 3 pointers. That was abysmal last night. Unfortunately, this is the new NBA if you're cold.

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      • If Lebron somehow drags this groups of slackers through this series and comes out a champ... I think the GOAT discussion is alive and well.

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        • Rodney Hood is going to have to play in the series. I don't who the Cavs are going to put on KD but Hood should be a candidate.

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          • Lebron can't carry the offensive load, and be expected to stop KD...

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            • The Cavs might as well call in sick. They have no shot at winning this series unless two Warriors get suspended this time.
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              • Originally posted by broncolee View Post
                The Cavs might as well call in sick. They have no shot at winning this series unless two Warriors get suspended this time.
                You really went out on a limb there.


                Hashtag bold prediction

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                • Originally posted by Joshua2585 View Post
                  If Lebron somehow drags this groups of slackers through this series and comes out a champ... I think the GOAT discussion is alive and well.
                  I mentioned this recently, given how far he has taken this group this season. It is not news now, but a number of experts are saying this may be among his greatest work....taking a relatively ordinary group so far. And I've heard a few more folks mention the GOAT debate....and yes, some actually believe that he deserves to be get votes for it. They say that MJ has the championships, but they counter it with many of the stats favouring LeBron, and the fact he has not had a coach that measures up to a Jackson. And most of us can remember several of his MJ's team mates, but few will remember much about his mates this year.

                  I hope LeBron pulls off the unbelievable this year.......and if he does, get that GOAT debate back in progress, because it's for real.

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                  • Originally posted by CanDB View Post
                    I mentioned this recently, given how far he has taken this group this season. It is not news now, but a number of experts are saying this may be among his greatest work....taking a relatively ordinary group so far. And I've heard a few more folks mention the GOAT debate....and yes, some actually believe that he deserves to be get votes for it. They say that MJ has the championships, but they counter it with many of the stats favouring LeBron, and the fact he has not had a coach that measures up to a Jackson. And most of us can remember several of his MJ's team mates, but few will remember much about his mates this year.

                    I hope LeBron pulls off the unbelievable this year.......and if he does, get that GOAT debate back in progress, because it's for real.

                    I'll just go ahead and curb that stats counter argument people try to mention.

                    1. Lebron came in the league at 18. Jordan played I believe 3 years in NCAA.

                    2. Jordan retired for two years in his prime in between three peats that surely would've been some of his greatest work in the postseason.

                    3. Jordans 14th and 15th season were after a second retirement at ages 38 and 39. Compared to Lebron being in year 15 now at 33

                    What's my point you ask? Comparing the careers and acting like they are anywhere near comparable in terms of length.

                    I looked this up for my brother last week or the week before and Lebron has 30+ postseason games on MJ. Probably closer to 40 at this point of this year.

                    Lebron is already in his 15th season and MJ only played 15 total. But again MJ's career was shortened two years in the middle of his prime, started at 3 years older and his last two years were also after coming out of a second retirement at age 38.

                    So for people to compare Lebrons postseason stats surpassing Jordan to me is very shortsighted on taking several major impactful variables into account.


                    Another factor that people ignore with that argument is Jordan played his entire career with a best of 5 opening round series. Lebron has spent his entire career in a best of 7 first round format. Now Lebron has had plenty of postseason sweeps but he has also had plenty of Pacer like rounds going 7. Which extends how many postseason games you get.


                    Don't get me wrong. I'm not trying to take away from Lebron's greatness and I've given up debating against his inclusion in the top 3. But please let's not try to act like all the postseason stats are apples to apples when discussing years played, number of games played and age while playing them.
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                    • Originally posted by CanDB View Post
                      I mentioned this recently, given how far he has taken this group this season. It is not news now, but a number of experts are saying this may be among his greatest work....taking a relatively ordinary group so far. And I've heard a few more folks mention the GOAT debate....and yes, some actually believe that he deserves to be get votes for it. They say that MJ has the championships, but they counter it with many of the stats favouring LeBron, and the fact he has not had a coach that measures up to a Jackson. And most of us can remember several of his MJ's team mates, but few will remember much about his mates this year.

                      I hope LeBron pulls off the unbelievable this year.......and if he does, get that GOAT debate back in progress, because it's for real.
                      I actually think this playoff run is third behind the '16 Finals and the '07 run when he beat the Pistons. He's had some other good ones, like beating OKC in '12 and competing like he did in '15 against GS, but this one is up there based on how important his performances are to the team.

                      What I do know for a fact is that LeBron is 2-4 in the Finals as an underdog, and 1-1 as favorite. He'll never live down that Mavericks series, and he shouldn't, but I never thought of the Bulls as an underdog in any Finals they played. I can't find the opening odds records for the Finals going back that far, but the individual games for, I think it's the Stardust, are available. Jordan was never more than a 4.5 point underdog in any Finals game he played. The Bulls were typically more than 5 point favorites in the games they were giving points. Even in the Finals where they didn't have home court advantage they were giving way more points than they were getting. They really weren't underdogs after 1989. Maybe in an eastern conference series or two in 90 or 91, but that's it.

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                      • Oh also to follow up all of my counters about the postseason stats thing I didn't mean to give the impression I don't think Lebrons stats are impressive. They are super impressive and definitely weigh in on the discussion. Was just trying to point out the career length isn't apples to oranges when bringing that up.
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                        • Originally posted by Spice 1 View Post
                          I actually think this playoff run is third behind the '16 Finals and the '07 run when he beat the Pistons. He's had some other good ones, like beating OKC in '12 and competing like he did in '15 against GS, but this one is up there based on how important his performances are to the team.

                          What I do know for a fact is that LeBron is 2-4 in the Finals as an underdog, and 1-1 as favorite. He'll never live down that Mavericks series, and he shouldn't, but I never thought of the Bulls as an underdog in any Finals they played. I can't find the opening odds records for the Finals going back that far, but the individual games for, I think it's the Stardust, are available. Jordan was never more than a 4.5 point underdog in any Finals game he played. The Bulls were typically more than 5 point favorites in the games they were giving points. Even in the Finals where they didn't have home court advantage they were giving way more points than they were getting. They really weren't underdogs after 1989. Maybe in an eastern conference series or two in 90 or 91, but that's it.
                          Originally posted by DenverBlood View Post
                          Oh also to follow up all of my counters about the postseason stats thing I didn't mean to give the impression I don't think Lebrons stats are impressive. They are super impressive and definitely weigh in on the discussion. Was just trying to point out the career length isn't apples to oranges when bringing that up.
                          All good discussion. And believe me, I am not a huge Lebron fan. I do have a soft spot for his returning to Cleveland, because some folks would not return. (Yes, I was ticked when he left!)

                          But I see him in the top 2 debate, and the way he has shouldered the load on various occasions, minus a Phil Jackson, minus a better team in most years, needs to be valued in this debate. I expect GS to win this series (yuck!!), but if The Cavs come close, or even pull it off, LeBron gains a lot of points!

                          Interestingly (to me), top players like Curry and Durant should never get over rated, because they are playing on a stacked team. Not so for me, prior to Durant jumping ship and Curry winning a championship. I gave them more points then, compared to today. Heck, GS is almost an all star team, with an all star coach......who just happened to play with MJ.

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                          • Originally posted by ELWAY421 View Post
                            I can't see my Cavs winning a game unfortunately.
                            Cavs will win one game that's about it. When Lebron loses yet another finals the LJ MJ debate can be put to rest.
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                            • Originally posted by DenverBlood View Post
                              Oh also to follow up all of my counters about the postseason stats thing I didn't mean to give the impression I don't think Lebrons stats are impressive. They are super impressive and definitely weigh in on the discussion. Was just trying to point out the career length isn't apples to oranges when bringing that up.
                              Totally agree with you about career totals. It's good to look at for longevity, but doesn't tell the whole story.

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                              • Originally posted by Spice 1 View Post
                                Totally agree with you about career totals. It's good to look at for longevity, but doesn't tell the whole story.
                                I get that there are many variables to consider. But I do rate longevity/high performance over time, as key ingredients when measuring greatness.

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