Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Red Sox Nation

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Originally posted by RunYouOver
    It's not a huge problem....but spending THAT much money takes a little chunk (A little one at least) out of your spending cap.
    Not really. The Sox will recoup far more than the negotiation fee on merchandise sales. A women called WEEI today and she said she was recently in Japan wearing a Red sox shirt and someone offered her $120.00. The Sox will be able to sell Matsuzaka jerseys for $300.00 in Japan!

    Originally posted by RunYouOver
    And JD DREW?!!
    Jeez, they're going to spend more money on JD DREW than they would've on Damon.
    I hope not. But let's see how Damon looks in years 3 and 4 before we rush to judgement. Plus, he still throws like a girl. That will never change.


    Mein angenommenes Yankee ist Johnny Damon

    Comment


    • Originally posted by PatsCrowEater
      Not really. The Sox will recoup far more than the negotiation fee on merchandise sales. A women called WEEI today and she said she was recently in Japan wearing a Red sox shirt and someone offered her $120.00. The Sox will be able to sell Matsuzaka jerseys for $300.00 in Japan!



      I hope not. But let's see how Damon looks in years 3 and 4 before we rush to judgement. Plus, he still throws like a girl. That will never change.

      True, but JD Drew has been known for not finishing ANY season. And he's already older than Damon!

      I truly think that would be a big mistake for the Sox, but hey...I'm not complaining!
      Administrator

      sigpic

      Comment


      • Originally posted by RunYouOver
        True, but JD Drew has been known for not finishing ANY season. And he's already older than Damon!

        I truly think that would be a big mistake for the Sox, but hey...I'm not complaining!
        I agree. I don't want the oft injured JD for the money he's expecting. However, JD is two years younger than Damon. JD is 31, Damon is 33 and throws like a girl.


        Mein angenommenes Yankee ist Johnny Damon

        Comment


        • Originally posted by PatsCrowEater
          This deal is no more risky than some of the other recent high dollar contracts for pitching. For example, the highest paid pitchers last year were Mike Hampton, Randy Johnson, Roger Clemens, Pedro Martinez, Chan Ho Park, Andy Pettitte and Mike Mussina. This group averaged close to 16 ml in salary last year but they also averaged about 10 wins for the 2006 season. Those pitchers got paid well over 1 ml per win.

          Matsuzaka is only 26 and some baseball people feel he is capable of getting 20 or more wins. That's a little over 1 ml per win. You add that with the tremendous amount of revenue generated by selling Red Sox merchandise in Japan and this deal actually looks considerably less risky than you have portrayed it to be.

          Go Sox!!
          Nice job of cherrypicking pitchers for your comparison..... mind if I take a stab at the pitchers you chose??

          Mike Hampton was a complete bust for the Rockies due to injury. Simply to trade him to the Braves, Colorado had to pay the majority of his contract. Are you willing to admit that the fact he DID NOT PITCH IN 2006 might tend to drag down the average wins of the group?? He is still owed $68 mil. No more of a risk than Hampton?? Dear God, I hope not.

          Chan Ho Park. Quite possibly the worst FA signing of all time. No one but the Rangers thought his contract was good when he signed it.

          Pedro Martinez. Yes, injury is always a risk. He missed a good chunk of 2006 with injuries. Is the question whether he had established himself enough in the majors to warrant a large contract?? The answer would be an overwhelming "Yes".

          Mike Mussina. You chose him in the last year of a big $ contract. He had 15 wins. He had a fantastic career for the Orioles and has pitched very well for the Yankees. Since his total Yankee contract (6 years) will be about the same (perhaps less, in fact) than a 3-year deal for Matsuzaka. Moose averaged 15.3 wins over the length of his Yankee contract. DOUBLE the amount per year (I'm trying to stick with the way you handpicked pitchers), should mean the expectations for Matsuzaka should be double, right?? 30 wins seems steep.

          Lets see...... time to move on to the 1st ballot HOF'ers. Clemens pitched a little over 1/2 a season for the Astros. Had he failed to win a game, the risk would be $12 mil. He was 7-6 with a 2.30 ERA. The risk for Matsuzaka could be as high as $90 mil.

          I'm struggling to see why 40+ year old pitchers are included in your list, but even an old, injured Randy Johnson (back surgery immediately following the season)managed 17 wins last season (he also had 17 in 2005). Randy's track record doesn't need to be mentioned. Matsuzaka's posting fee rivals or exceeds RJ's TOTAL contract with the Yankees.

          Pettitte....... I'm not sure why you picked 2 pitchers who may very well retire this offseason (Pettitte and Clemens), but........... his 31 wins in the past 2 seasons don't = $1 mil. a win. The ONLY reason the listed pitchers AVERAGED $1 mil. per win is that you chose one (Hampton) that didn't pitch in 2006, 1 (Clemens)that didn't join the team until the season was well underway, 1 (Pedro) that missed a good chunk of the last part of the season and 1 (Park) who was a complete bust.

          I find it odd that the YOUNGEST pitcher on your list, Park, is 33 years old. Matsuzaka will be 29 at the end of his deal (assuming he signs).

          In what way does the risk of a deal that could end up costing boston $90 mil. for 3 years compare with any pitcher's contract??

          Capable of 20 or more wins for an avg. approaching $30 mil. per season?? Setting the bar at 20 seems quite low.
          Last edited by keithbishop; 11-14-2006, 05:23 PM.
          My blog : "A new machine" http://dgalemore.blogspot.com




          R.I.P. Darrent Williams 1982-2007

          Comment


          • Originally posted by PatsCrowEater
            I agree. I don't want the oft injured JD for the money he's expecting. However, JD is two years younger than Damon. JD is 31, Damon is 33 and throws like a girl.

            Ah, I always thought JD was 35ish.

            Hm.

            Oh well.

            And another thing Michael Kay said today was that people may jump on the Red Sox pitching's bandwagon, but in truth, it's got just as many questions as everyone else's staff.

            1. Daisuke Matsuzaka (spelling?)--Never thrown a pitch in MLB...never a guarentee.
            2. Josh Beckett--Really didn't pitch well last year, very high era, only got a decent amount of wins because of the Sox offense. A question mark this year.
            3. Curt Schilling--Ask anyone...you can never completely trust any pitcher over 40.
            4. Jon Papelbon--Broke down at the end of the season as a reliever.....how will he perform throwing 6+ innings a game?
            5. Matt Clement?--He's not very good, period. He hasn't been good with the sox.

            Many questions on that staff, just like everyone elses.
            Administrator

            sigpic

            Comment


            • Originally posted by PatsCrowEater
              I agree. I don't want the oft injured JD for the money he's expecting. However, JD is two years younger than Damon. JD is 31, Damon is 33 and throws like a girl.
              Damon also had a fantastic season for the Yankees, while his replacement, Coco Crisp........

              In case you were unable to watch any red sox games , Coco throws like a girl.

              Damon's never been on the DL. How about JD Drew??
              My blog : "A new machine" http://dgalemore.blogspot.com




              R.I.P. Darrent Williams 1982-2007

              Comment


              • Originally posted by OrangeShadow
                Well the money for negotiating doesnt count on the payroll so its not that bad. Ill take matsuka over a lefthanded fly ball pitcher in fenway.

                Plus papelbon is going to win 20 games

                CP bet on Papelbon and 20 wins?? No big deal, just a friendly wager.

                I'll also bet that Wang gets more wins than Matsuzaka.

                It's hard waiting until the Yankees/red sox play for CP bets.
                My blog : "A new machine" http://dgalemore.blogspot.com




                R.I.P. Darrent Williams 1982-2007

                Comment


                • Just for the record, the official number on the Matsuzaka bid was 51million dollars.

                  The previous record bid was 13 million.

                  Jeez.
                  Administrator

                  sigpic

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by PatsCrowEater
                    Not really. The Sox will recoup far more than the negotiation fee on merchandise sales. A women called WEEI today and she said she was recently in Japan wearing a Red sox shirt and someone offered her $120.00. The Sox will be able to sell Matsuzaka jerseys for $300.00 in Japan!

                    I pay very little attention to what teams make from merchandising, but I've been told that sales outside of boston's general area (this applies to any team) are divided between all teams. I don't really know, but you might consider that.
                    My blog : "A new machine" http://dgalemore.blogspot.com




                    R.I.P. Darrent Williams 1982-2007

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by RunYouOver
                      Just for the record, the official number on the Matsuzaka bid was 51million dollars.

                      The previous record bid was 13 million.

                      Jeez.
                      $51 mil ?? Amazing.


                      LOL. You'll love this. Matsui will end up costing the Yankees $76 mil. FOR 7 SEASONS. Matsui's 1st contract was 3 years $24 mil. AFTER PROVING HIMSELF IN THE US, he got a 4-year $52 mil. deal. No posting fee, btw.

                      Matsuzaka-- a minimum of $87 mil. for 3. Once again, a $3-year $36 mil. contract guess is conservative. Yes, sports fans, that's FAR more than A-Rod will make (and let's try to remember the Rangers pay a chunk of his contract).

                      Yeah, no risk involved
                      My blog : "A new machine" http://dgalemore.blogspot.com




                      R.I.P. Darrent Williams 1982-2007

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by keithbishop
                        $51 mil ?? Amazing.


                        LOL. You'll love this. Matsui will end up costing the Yankees $76 mil. FOR 7 SEASONS. Matsui's 1st contract was 3 years $24 mil. AFTER PROVING HIMSELF IN THE US, he got a 4-year $52 mil. deal. No posting fee, btw.

                        Matsuzaka-- a minimum of $87 mil. for 3. Once again, a $3-year $36 mil. contract guess is conservative. Yes, sports fans, that's FAR more than A-Rod will make (and let's try to remember the Rangers pay a chunk of his contract).

                        Yeah, no risk involved



                        And it may not come out of the Payroll....but you know how they pay the payroll...the same way they pay the posting fee! So you might as well add it in there.


                        And with all the young pitching the YANKEES got this offseason, our YOUNG pitching staff of '08 will not only be inexpensive, but probably very talented.
                        Administrator

                        sigpic

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by PatsCrowEater



                          I hope not. But let's see how Damon looks in years 3 and 4 before we rush to judgement.
                          Rush to judgement on the $39 mil. remaining on his deal AFTER 1 full season as a Yankee....... as opposed to rushing to judgement on $90 mil. or so BEFORE Matsuzaka throws a pitch as a member of the red sox ?? Who's doing the rushing??

                          That's hilarious.
                          My blog : "A new machine" http://dgalemore.blogspot.com




                          R.I.P. Darrent Williams 1982-2007

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by keithbishop
                            Nice job of cherrypicking pitchers for your comparison..... .
                            I didn't cherry pick anyone. The pitchers I mentioned were the highest paid hurlers in 2006. See for yourself.


                            I enjoyed your arguments and appreciate your knowledge and research but the fact remains that most teams are willing to pay an enormous salary for an older pitcher with a proven track record like Clemens, Johnson, Martinez, Mussina, et al. Matsuzaka is only 26. He is the bona-fide best FA pitcher on the market. He has incredible merchandise and marketing opportunities between Japan and the U.S. and those sales will far surpace his negotiation fee.

                            Matsuzaka will be the greatest pitcher in Boston since Pedro and he's only 26! Yanks fans thought they could get this guy and now they're bull$hi*.

                            It's completely understandable. Now let's move on and take Roger away from NY too.


                            Mein angenommenes Yankee ist Johnny Damon

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by PatsCrowEater
                              I didn't cherry pick anyone. The pitchers I mentioned were the highest paid hurlers in 2006. See for yourself.


                              I enjoyed your arguments and appreciate your knowledge and research but the fact remains that most teams are willing to pay an enormous salary for an older pitcher with a proven track record like Clemens, Johnson, Martinez, Mussina, et al. Matsuzaka is only 26. He is the bona-fide best FA pitcher on the market. He has incredible merchandise and marketing opportunities between Japan and the U.S. and those sales will far surpace his negotiation fee.

                              Matsuzaka will be the greatest pitcher in Boston since Pedro and he's only 26! Yanks fans thought they could get this guy and now they're bull$hi*.

                              It's completely understandable. Now let's move on and take Roger away from NY too.
                              What the article failed to ask was whether Moose and Pettitte, for example, "earned" their money over the length of the contract. Moose and Pettitte, for example, were in the final year of their deals. The worst of the contracts listened should serve as a lesson to ALL teams on the risk of throwing big $$ at FA's.

                              I didn't like RJ's contract when the Yankees gave him an extension. 34 wins over 2 seasons doesn't exactly leave me complaining, but I wouldn't have made that move.

                              Moose was 37 at THE END of his 6-year deal, not the beginning. He wasn't an "older pitcher".

                              I'm not sure what to believe on merchandising fees, but I'd have to lean towards believing what I've been told.... that a lot of it is split. The proceeds from every Jeter jersey sold, for instance, don't go to the Yankees.

                              I agree that Matsuzaka is the top FA pitcher, though it is worth mentioning that this is the worst FA class I can remember. $ 90 mil. is a TREMENDOUS risk for any pitcher.

                              Try this on for size...... 27 year old LHSP Barry Zito is likely to command $75 mil. for 5 years. I consider that a considerable risk. His background and age will likely lead him to get his asking price, but, let's face it, giving him that kind of deal is a roll of the dice.

                              $90 mil. for 3 years is a bigger risk. No one in the history of the sport has cost anywhere near that amount for 3 seasons. Matsuzaka had better live up to every bit of his hype. Much easier said than done.

                              Take Roger away from NY?? Roger who ?? Roger Clemens, I'd assume, but he pitched for Houston. Go for it. I'm not interested in adding a 40-something pitcher. Try this name, though..... Phil Hughes. We'll likely see him in pinstripes this season...... and he will be a great one.
                              My blog : "A new machine" http://dgalemore.blogspot.com




                              R.I.P. Darrent Williams 1982-2007

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by RunYouOver
                                1. Daisuke Matsuzaka (spelling?)--Never thrown a pitch in MLB...never a guarentee.
                                2. Josh Beckett--Really didn't pitch well last year, very high era, only got a decent amount of wins because of the Sox offense. A question mark this year.
                                3. Curt Schilling--Ask anyone...you can never completely trust any pitcher over 40.
                                4. Jon Papelbon--Broke down at the end of the season as a reliever.....how will he perform throwing 6+ innings a game?
                                5. Matt Clement?--He's not very good, period. He hasn't been good with the sox.

                                Many questions on that staff, just like everyone elses.
                                obviously we will have to wait on matsuka.
                                beckett i think will learn from his first year,he said himself he adjusts ini the offseason. And the biggest question coming in was his health, he threw a career high in innings and he also had the highest average velocity of any pitcher. throwing the most pitches over 95(1,000 something) he just needs to adjust a bit.
                                schilling is schilling you know what your getting.
                                papelbon could of come back if we were in contention.
                                clement-he had half a good year thats it,he sucks hes gone. he had two major surgerys in 06 he wont be pitching for a while


                                Originally posted by keithbishop
                                CP bet on Papelbon and 20 wins?? No big deal, just a friendly wager.

                                I'll also bet that Wang gets more wins than Matsuzaka.

                                It's hard waiting until the Yankees/red sox play for CP bets.
                                ill take both bets.assuming all pitchers mentioned stay healthy
                                Last edited by OrangeShadow; 11-15-2006, 04:12 AM.


                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X