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  • Originally posted by keithbishop


    Double standard check:

    With everything said about Mariano Rivera still fresh in my mind, what's your take on this (From Peter Abraham's blog):

    "Huge clown Red Sox right-hander Curt Schilling told a Boston radio station this morning that he plans to file for free agency after the season. Theo Epstein has decided not to offer him a contract extension until after the season.

    Schilling said he was disappointed and planned to test the market for the first time in his career. "


    Also keep Schilling's recent comments about using other teams to drive up boston's price, etc. I don't really care, but just wanted to see if this qualifies as controversy like Mo's "story".
    Not a controversy at all. There's a big difference between Schill's and Mo's situations. Schill has only been a Red Sox for a couple years and will be 41 next year. There will be several top of the order FA starting pitchers next year like Zambrano, Carpenter and Freddie Garcia. There's no need for Theo to limit his future flexibility and sign Curt now. Plus, Curt loves Boston and has started a business here. If Theo wants him back he'll get him.

    Mo is several years younger than Curt and has played his entire career with New York. The pool of elite available closers next year is non-existent. Several teams will be clamoring for a guy like Rivera, including Boston, and he will get huge dollars. The Yankees are taking a big risk not resigning him now and have showed him dis-respect.

    IMO, NY could be making a big mistake. Boston is taking a very small calculated risk.


    Mein angenommenes Yankee ist Johnny Damon

    Comment


    • I love the Red Sox (not as much as LA of couse )

      Even to the haters you must have had some compassion in 04 for the good Sox fans. All I could think of was my dead grandfather whom loved the Sox and did not have that smug attitude of a lot of Sox fans I know. he was such a nice man and I felt that he would have been happy when Foulke threw the ball to 1st base to Mencaewicz (sp)

      but the Boston media overexposes them so much it is not even funny.

      If I read story numbeer 2645656465 on manny being late to camp I am :brick:

      Or story #464848489498489 on Matsusaka on his gyro ball or Shillings contract.
      The Bruins have a 7-2 record and they get one stinking page to the Sox 11 for no meaningful games. yes hockey is 3 or 4th here but give at least a 2nd page occasionally

      I hate Spring training with a passion. I just want to see real games not some games that I see JD drew for 1 Innning and Curt Shilling for 34 pitches
      yes it is a necessary evil but I would rather skip Feb/march and get to April

      get rid of crappy weather and get to real weather and the pusuit of a Dodgers vs Red Sox W Series for Med. You never know

      this team has a good base and if they get over their lack of a closer they are going to be very very good. (sorry KB and RYO )

      I think boston/ny and toronto will fight all season for the playoffs IMHO
      NHL Blog at:NHL Blog by Medford Bronco!

      Comment


      • Originally posted by PatsCrowEater
        Not a controversy at all. There's a big difference between Schill's and Mo's situations. Schill has only been a Red Sox for a couple years and will be 41 next year. There will be several top of the order FA starting pitchers next year like Zambrano, Carpenter and Freddie Garcia. There's no need for Theo to limit his future flexibility and sign Curt now. Plus, Curt loves Boston and has started a business here. If Theo wants him back he'll get him.

        Mo is several years younger than Curt and has played his entire career with New York. The pool of elite available closers next year is non-existent. Several teams will be clamoring for a guy like Rivera, including Boston, and he will get huge dollars. The Yankees are taking a big risk not resigning him now and have showed him dis-respect.

        IMO, NY could be making a big mistake. Boston is taking a very small calculated risk.

        I see.

        So it means nothing when Mo says there is no problem.... he's not upset.... the Yankees have never disrespected him, etc. Is Mo lying?? Odd behavior for one of the nicest and classiest guys in the game, IMO.

        Schilling, on the other hand, was recently bragging that he could work out an extension with Theo "in 15 minutes". So much for that....

        Curt loves boston. Understood. Mo loves New York. You do realize that, right?? Are you aware that Cashman has negotiated every contract Mo has signed.... and never had a problem?? Cashman wants Mo back.... and Mo will be back.

        Plus..... gotcha on this one, mi amigo.......

        Didn't you just recently call Mo an aging player??

        Did he suddenly get younger over the past few days??
        My blog : "A new machine" http://dgalemore.blogspot.com




        R.I.P. Darrent Williams 1982-2007

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Medford Bronco
          I love the Red Sox (not as much as LA of couse )

          Even to the haters you must have had some compassion in 04 for the good Sox fans. All I could think of was my dead grandfather whom loved the Sox and did not have that smug attitude of a lot of Sox fans I know. he was such a nice man and I felt that he would have been happy when Foulke threw the ball to 1st base to Mencaewicz (sp)

          but the Boston media overexposes them so much it is not even funny.

          If I read story numbeer 2645656465 on manny being late to camp I am :brick:

          Or story #464848489498489 on Matsusaka on his gyro ball or Shillings contract.
          The Bruins have a 7-2 record and they get one stinking page to the Sox 11 for no meaningful games. yes hockey is 3 or 4th here but give at least a 2nd page occasionally

          I hate Spring training with a passion. I just want to see real games not some games that I see JD drew for 1 Innning and Curt Shilling for 34 pitches
          yes it is a necessary evil but I would rather skip Feb/march and get to April

          get rid of crappy weather and get to real weather and the pusuit of a Dodgers vs Red Sox W Series for Med. You never know

          this team has a good base and if they get over their lack of a closer they are going to be very very good. (sorry KB and RYO )

          I think boston/ny and toronto will fight all season for the playoffs IMHO
          Great stuff, Med.

          I've been pointing out SEVERAL examples of the NY media blowing things out of proportion. Jeter vs. A-Rod is tabloid "journalism" at it's worst..... but this stuff goes on EVERY YEAR.

          I love Spring Training, though. If you go to the sources with dignity, you get reports about what happens ON THE FIELD instead of the nonsense. I love reading about Mariano Rivera adding an offspeed pitch, etc., but little is written about it. I tend to ignore most media sources.
          My blog : "A new machine" http://dgalemore.blogspot.com




          R.I.P. Darrent Williams 1982-2007

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Medford Bronco
            I love the Red Sox (not as much as LA of couse )

            Even to the haters you must have had some compassion in 04 for the good Sox fans. All I could think of was my dead grandfather whom loved the Sox and did not have that smug attitude of a lot of Sox fans I know. he was such a nice man and I felt that he would have been happy when Foulke threw the ball to 1st base to Mencaewicz (sp)

            but the Boston media overexposes them so much it is not even funny.

            If I read story numbeer 2645656465 on manny being late to camp I am :brick:

            Or story #464848489498489 on Matsusaka on his gyro ball or Shillings contract.
            The Bruins have a 7-2 record and they get one stinking page to the Sox 11 for no meaningful games. yes hockey is 3 or 4th here but give at least a 2nd page occasionally

            I hate Spring training with a passion. I just want to see real games not some games that I see JD drew for 1 Innning and Curt Shilling for 34 pitches
            yes it is a necessary evil but I would rather skip Feb/march and get to April

            get rid of crappy weather and get to real weather and the pusuit of a Dodgers vs Red Sox W Series for Med. You never know

            this team has a good base and if they get over their lack of a closer they are going to be very very good. (sorry KB and RYO )

            I think boston/ny and toronto will fight all season for the playoffs IMHO

            You need to move to Wales Med. Being a Red Sox fan over here, I can promise you that the media will never ever get on your nerves. In fact, you'll probably never hear anything at all about them, as the only time I've ever read anything about them in the local paper is when they won the World Series

            So until they win it again (this year I hope), then I won't get to read about them.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Jaws
              You need to move to Wales Med. Being a Red Sox fan over here, I can promise you that the media will never ever get on your nerves. In fact, you'll probably never hear anything at all about them, as the only time I've ever read anything about them in the local paper is when they won the World Series

              So until they win it again (this year I hope), then I won't get to read about them.
              I will have to send you a link then to boston.com

              then you can get your fix for the next 10 years in about 1 week lol
              NHL Blog at:NHL Blog by Medford Bronco!

              Comment


              • Originally posted by keithbishop

                Plus..... gotcha on this one, mi amigo.......

                Didn't you just recently call Mo an aging player??

                Did he suddenly get younger over the past few days??
                I never said he was young. I said he was several years younger than Schilling. Big difference.

                The spin stops here.


                Mein angenommenes Yankee ist Johnny Damon

                Comment


                • Originally posted by PatsCrowEater
                  I never said he was young. I said he was several years younger than Schilling. Big difference.

                  The spin stops here.
                  So is Mo at the end of his career or not?? I said he has 2-3 years minimum left.....

                  C'mon... I'm even playing nice today... note the liberal use of smilies......
                  My blog : "A new machine" http://dgalemore.blogspot.com




                  R.I.P. Darrent Williams 1982-2007

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by keithbishop
                    So is Mo at the end of his career or not?? I said he has 2-3 years minimum left.....

                    C'mon... I'm even playing nice today... note the liberal use of smilies......
                    He might have two years left as long as Joe sticks to his word and only uses him in the 9th instead of trying to stretch two innings out of him due to a crappy bullpen.

                    Three years will be difficult because Joe has over used him for too many years.


                    Mein angenommenes Yankee ist Johnny Damon

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by PatsCrowEater
                      He might have two years left as long as Joe sticks to his word and only uses him in the 9th instead of trying to stretch two innings out of him due to a crappy bullpen.

                      Three years will be difficult because Joe has over used him for too many years.
                      Torre began limiting Mo to 1 inning last season. There's no way on earth that he will change that this season. The rest of the Yankees pen is quite solid.

                      Adding a vet (Luis Vizcaino) and a promising 2nd year reliever (Chris Britton) to last year's mix only increases the depth.

                      The AAA staff will be BY FAR the best the Yankees have assembled in my 31 seasons as a Yankee fan. JB Cox , Jose Veras and TJ Beam (Veras and Beam got a brief bit of MLB experience last season) will be on call in AAA in case anyone is hurt. I wouldn't rule out one of the AAA starters being called up for a BP spot should there be an injury, either.

                      As much as I like Britton, I can't say for sure whether he'll open the season with the Yankees or in AAA. He has minor league options left and, as good as he is, there is a ton of competition for the BP spots. I can make a case for 10 relievers deserving spots in the BP right now (not counting Beam, Veras, or Cox, who will get more AAA seasoning). You can't carry 10 relievers, of course, so that's pretty nice depth.


                      I'm listening to a Jason Giambi interview about how 2 of the starting prospects (Humberto Sanchez--part of the Sheffield trade-- and Phil Hughes --our best prospect--) looked when he hit against them today.

                      Sorry, man.... no drama in Yankeeland today. Our pitchers faced our hitters for the first time this spring. That's right..... on-field baseball.... no nonsense :thumb: .
                      My blog : "A new machine" http://dgalemore.blogspot.com




                      R.I.P. Darrent Williams 1982-2007

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by PatsCrowEater

                        Three years will be difficult because Joe has over used him for too many years.
                        I'm sorry....I failed to address the latter half of your post.

                        Your statement is simply inaccurate.

                        This isn't the first generation of baseball players I've watched. For example, my favorite Yankees pitcher is now their pitching coach (Ron Guidry) and my favorite Yankees position player is now their bench coach (Don Mattingly).

                        I became a Yankees fan the year before Goose Gossage joined the team. A big complaint from Goose about the committee's failure to put him in the HOF (though he got to within an eyelash in 2006 and is a strong bet to make it in 2007) is that the vast majority of today's closers pitch 1 inning per game.

                        As a closer, Rivera's career high in IP is 80.2. There are, of course, post season #'s to add, but the most post season innings he's thrown in a year are 16.

                        Let's take a peek at some of Goose's #'s......

                        Highest # of IP he had as a closer: 141.2 in 1975. That's a pretty astonishing difference between his IP and Rivera's, isn't it??

                        Try this on for size...... as a closer.....
                        In 1977+1978, Goose combined for 135 Games and 267.1 Innings .
                        In 1975, he pitched the 141.2 innings in 62 games .

                        Like Goose says, nearly all of his saves were of the 2-inning variety.

                        Rivera, OTOH, in the regular season as a closer, has thrown 67 more innings than his # of games. That's spread out over 10 seasons..... so an average of less than 7 more IP per season than games. How can a large part of his saves be 2 innings if he's only averaged that small of a difference?? As I said....completely inaccurate.

                        Goose threw 409 inings in the 3 seasons I mentioned. To get 409 innings for Rivera, you have to add his 5 highest Inning totals (1/2 his career as a closer) plus 21 innings.


                        Goose was a starter in 1976 and threw 224 innings with 15 CG, BTW.


                        Let's look at this another way. One team, the Braves, has had a playoff run as long as the Yankees current one (longer, actually....14 seasons to the Yankees 12). John Wetteland was the Yankees closer in 1996.... and Mo has been the closer the past 10 seasons.

                        If Mo was so over-used, how is his run (let's not even pretend he isn't the greatest reliever of all time) possible?? How many closers have the Braves had since 1997?? The red sox?? The Yankees have had 1. How did Mo survive?? Yes, he's pitched a lot, but over-used?? His #'s don't support your argument. His effectiveness would have to have slipped badly if your accusation was true. Mo and Trevor Hoffman have been remarkable for a long, long time. Hoffman, of course, hasn't pitched much in the post season.

                        It's also worth noting that he would have no value as a free agent if he'd been abused like that. For the record, the Yankees had Mo NOT throw during the offseason until a couple of weeks before Spring Training the last 3 years. Mo loved the results, so they've done the same for Mussina the last 2 years. Mussina pitched MUCH better in 2006 than he did in 2005. As far as that goes, Moose was the Yankees sharpest pitcher today.

                        Back to Mo, he has been used VERY little in Spring training the last few years. It doesn't take him long to get up to speed.... and seems like a good way of saving wear and tear on his arm, doesn't it??
                        Last edited by keithbishop; 02-23-2007, 12:03 AM.
                        My blog : "A new machine" http://dgalemore.blogspot.com




                        R.I.P. Darrent Williams 1982-2007

                        Comment


                        • Let's look at this comparism to Goose and Rivera another way.

                          Goose was big and fat - 6' 3" 225 lbs

                          Mo is skinny and frail - 6' 2" 180 lbs.

                          If you prograndulate the number of innings pitched to body weight you will see astonishing results.

                          Using the prograndulation forumula of c = (Σ a² + b²) / ¼ where c = pounds per innings pitched

                          Gossage only used .65 pounds per innings pitched

                          Rivera has used a whopping 3.2 pounds per innings pitched, one of the highest pound prograndulations of all-time.

                          I can't explain it in any simpler terms than that.
                          Last edited by PatsCrowEater; 02-23-2007, 05:45 AM.


                          Mein angenommenes Yankee ist Johnny Damon

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by PatsCrowEater
                            Let's look at this comparism to Goose and Rivera another way.

                            Goose was big and fat - 6' 3" 225 lbs

                            Mo is skinny and frail - 6' 2" 180 lbs.

                            If you prograndulate the number of innings pitched to body weight you will see astonishing results.

                            Using the prograndulation forumula of c = (Σ a² + b²) / ¼ where c = pounds per innings pitched

                            Gossage only used .65 pounds per innings pitched

                            Rivera has used a whopping 3.2 pounds per innings pitched, one of the highest pound prograndulations of all-time.

                            I can't explain it in any simpler terms than that.
                            That's really cute, but does nothing to explain Rivera's longevity + incredible production. Maybe he isn't human . His arm should have fallen off years ago, right ??

                            Using what I like to call the reality formula...

                            I've seen one flavor-of-the-month after another come and go while Rivera has remained at the top.

                            Dr. Ares N Fanssuk of Creighton University conducted a study of closers from the 1960's through 2005. The result :

                            over-use over an extended period = vastly declined stats well before the end of a 10 year reign as closer.
                            My blog : "A new machine" http://dgalemore.blogspot.com




                            R.I.P. Darrent Williams 1982-2007

                            Comment


                            • Here's my hope......

                              Within a year or two a matchup between Jonathon Papelbon and Phillip Hughes will be one for the ages. Let's hope for good health to both these players and long storied careers.

                              Papelbon vs. Hughes could provide great theatre for the Red Sox/Yankee rivalry for many years to come.


                              Mein angenommenes Yankee ist Johnny Damon

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by PatsCrowEater
                                Here's my hope......

                                Within a year or two a matchup between Jonathon Papelbon and Phillip Hughes will be one for the ages. Let's hope for good health to both these players and long storied careers.

                                Papelbon vs. Hughes could provide great theatre for the Red Sox/Yankee rivalry for many years to come.
                                Sounds great to me.
                                My blog : "A new machine" http://dgalemore.blogspot.com




                                R.I.P. Darrent Williams 1982-2007

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