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  • #46
    Originally posted by stnzed View Post
    There is one coach in the NFL that I'd rather have coaching the Broncos.....But sometimes I think a monkey throwing darts at names on a dart board could draft better.

    He's brought in a lot of talent lately, though, and the Cutler and Marshall picks have really got me off his case....Brilliant!!!!

    I honestly believe that if he could shore up the offensive and defensive lines, we could be looking at something special (But I'm not holding my breath on the offensive line getting any better. Ever!).....
    Not to mention Dumerville, and possibly both Moss and Thomas...and Crowder for that matter. Add in the use of a second round pick on Walker... and its hard to be too critical over the last few years.

    But like you said.. if Thomas can be something, and Crowder improves... Next year we throw in ONE FA DT, and things look completely different. Things will look completely different by the end of THIS season, because those guys will start to improve and adjust to the NFL. But I don't expect them to really make a showing until next year anyway.

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    • #47
      Originally posted by Ravage!!! View Post
      I'm going to ignore the first part of your post, because it was drivel. But if you only want to look at whats happening NOW, then why did YOU bring up last year's season???? Make up your mind. You can't just look in the PAST as far as it makes YOUR point.

      The truth.. the truth is that YOU got your hopes up too high for this season. The truth is that you felt "this was the year" and now that things don't look to be perfect, you want to bail. You want to CRY CRY CRY that it MUST be the coach.

      Forget that he has the highest winning percentage of anyone else. FORGET that he got to the AFC Championship just 2 years ago. Forget the first two wins, because THIS loss... THIS ONE LOSS.. negates EVERYTHING and shows that we need to get rid of the coach..... for YOu.. YOU... you see the truth and we are alll just blind followers!! *laughs*

      I would expect you to concede to the first two points because, well you obviously cannot formulate a true thought nor debate on any other level then the "Ill meet you on the playground after school".

      Last season was a precursor to this one, that is why there is a vast amount of relevance when trying to examine the future of this one. Debating what happened in 1970 or 2005 really brings no heart to the discussion.

      As I told your father, I have never said anything about this one loss, this loss means nothing, but the trend that has stemmed from LAST SEASON is flowing over into this one, and that is important to talk about. But you just let me know when you want to get together and compare fan credentials because I would love to see yours.

      I say it everyday, it's not easy being a Broncos fan but if we can't talk candidly and honest amongst other Bronco fans what are we doing here? Gettcha mind right!

      Comment


      • #48
        Originally posted by Ravage!!! View Post
        Not to mention Dumerville, and possibly both Moss and Thomas...and Crowder for that matter. Add in the use of a second round pick on Walker... and its hard to be too critical over the last few years.

        But like you said.. if Thomas can be something, and Crowder improves... Next year we throw in ONE FA DT, and things look completely different. Things will look completely different by the end of THIS season, because those guys will start to improve and adjust to the NFL. But I don't expect them to really make a showing until next year anyway.

        Or maybe TWO free agent DT's!!!

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        • #49
          Originally posted by mojo0730 View Post
          Even if Shanahan did a great job coaching a mostly-average team in 2005, his track record in the few seasons leading up to and since has been questionable.

          Again, I'm not saying fire Shanahan right now. I'm hoping that he can figure it out and turn it around. But I think it's not totally unfair or unreasonable to expect - even demand - that Shanahan takes this team back to the AFC Championship game by next season. Otherwise, I think it's time to move into a different direction.
          I think perhaps Shannahan is thinking the same thing. We have a LOT of talent on this team, a lot of it young and just starting to play together. Everything Shanahan does is with an eye on the SB.
          He's made some great decisions in the past, and he's made some crappy ones, yes.
          But you have to give this team time to gel and improve. With so many new faces and schemes being introduced, we are going to take some bumps and bruises along the way.

          Expecting this team to come out and play like an elite Indy/NE team with all these new faces is waaay too much to expect.

          This season, I am just sitting back and watching all this talent materialize and grow, because I think its something special. If we make the playoffs, horray! If not...oh well. We'll come back next year stronger and better.

          And you can see the improvement on redzone offense from last week to this week. We did move the ball on the Jacksonville defense-when we were on the field.

          So Shanahan is doing what a couch should be doing. It just happens this week he got out coached and our defense got outplayed. Jacksonville punched us in the mouth and we had a hard time recovering. But we did. Our defense only allowed 6 points in the second half, and both on VERY short fields: the 20 yard line and the 4 yard line.
          So the defense did make some adjustments a half-time.
          We got beat this week. It happens. Any given Sunday.
          sigpic
          Adopted by: Peanut

          "You find ways to win and certainly you can find ways to lose...it's not just dumb luck."
          -Sean Payton

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          • #50
            Originally posted by mojo0730 View Post
            Even if Shanahan did a great job coaching a mostly-average team in 2005, his track record in the few seasons leading up to and since has been questionable.

            Again, I'm not saying fire Shanahan right now. I'm hoping that he can figure it out and turn it around. But I think it's not totally unfair or unreasonable to expect - even demand - that Shanahan takes this team back to the AFC Championship game by next season. Otherwise, I think it's time to move into a different direction.
            I disagree again. The first year that Plummer was here, he went down with injury, and we STILL nearly beat the Patriots with our third string QB. Accomplishing again a 10 win season.

            I can't help but see from you, exactly what people were saying of Cowher after he hung his hat on Kordell Stewert. The fans were complaining, griping,moaning about how he somehow was 'falling short' of what was expected of him. Yet the owner knew that SBs just don't fall on trees. That great coaches don't just happen very easily.

            Where were the Patriots before this run? How long before this run did they win the SB? How many SBs did Landry win without a HoF QB? How many SBs did Noll win without a HoF QB? How many SBs did Walsh win without a HoF QB? How many SBs will Belicheck win without a HoF QB? Funny how that works out huh? Even the HoF coaches NEED that quality QB in order to succeed (except for Joe Gibbs, which is why I consider him to be one of the greatest coaches of all time).

            How long ago, before Pittsburgh just won, did they win their last Super Bowl? How about Inianapolis/Baltimore Colts?? The Colts have had the best QB in the league, and have had seasons of 10,12,12,14 win seasons BEFORE finally winning the SB... but they knew to stick with Dungy. How about the Dallas Cowboys?? They won three SBs in 4 years in the early 90s, and have they been back since? How long is that?

            People want to say its been SOOOO long because its been 9 years since our SB run and wins! It hasn't been THAT long, and we haven't had a TRUE qualilty QB since Elway. Thats just the nature of the game. HoF TYPE QBs just don't come around all the time, and you have to be THRILLED with a coach that continues to win WITHOUT one. Shanahan has done amazing with QBs like Beurlein, Griese, and Plummer.

            I know people are frustrated. I understand that they 'think' we should have gone back to the SB by now. But damn, it just hasn't been THAT long since we've been... and OTHER teams that have lost their HoF QBs, don't recover as quickly as WE have!

            Comment


            • #51
              Originally posted by BroncFanIN View Post
              I think perhaps Shannahan is thinking the same thing. We have a LOT of talent on this team, a lot of it young and just starting to play together. Everything Shanahan does is with an eye on the SB.
              He's made some great decisions in the past, and he's made some crappy ones, yes.
              But you have to give this team time to gel and improve. With so many new faces and schemes being introduced, we are going to take some bumps and bruises along the way.

              Expecting this team to come out and play like an elite Indy/NE team with all these new faces is waaay too much to expect.

              This season, I am just sitting back and watching all this talent materialize and grow, because I think its something special. If we make the playoffs, horray! If not...oh well. We'll come back next year stronger and better.

              And you can see the improvement on redzone offense from last week to this week. We did move the ball on the Jacksonville defense-when we were on the field.

              So Shanahan is doing what a couch should be doing. It just happens this week he got out coached and our defense got outplayed. Jacksonville punched us in the mouth and we had a hard time recovering. But we did. Our defense only allowed 6 points in the second half, and both on VERY short fields: the 20 yard line and the 4 yard line.
              So the defense did make some adjustments a half-time.
              We got beat this week. It happens. Any given Sunday.
              In fairness, I predicted at best, we'd be 10-6, at worst, 7-9, 8-8 at the beginning of the season, so my expectations weren't unreasonably high.

              But what I did expect was to see improvement in the areas we struggled with last season almost immediately - Special Teams, pass rush, scoring points - and 3 games into the season, we're still struggling with those problems, which should be a SERIOUS concern right now, especially after getting physically man-handled at home by a supposedly weaker team.
              sigpic

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              • #52
                Originally posted by Ravage!!! View Post
                I disagree again. The first year that Plummer was here, he went down with injury, and we STILL nearly beat the Patriots with our third string QB. Accomplishing again a 10 win season.

                I can't help but see from you, exactly what people were saying of Cowher after he hung his hat on Kordell Stewert. The fans were complaining, griping,moaning about how he somehow was 'falling short' of what was expected of him. Yet the owner knew that SBs just don't fall on trees. That great coaches don't just happen very easily.

                Where were the Patriots before this run? How long before this run did they win the SB? How many SBs did Landry win without a HoF QB? How many SBs did Noll win without a HoF QB? How many SBs did Walsh win without a HoF QB? How many SBs will Belicheck win without a HoF QB? Funny how that works out huh? Even the HoF coaches NEED that quality QB in order to succeed (except for Joe Gibbs, which is why I consider him to be one of the greatest coaches of all time).

                How long ago, before Pittsburgh just won, did they win their last Super Bowl? How about Inianapolis/Baltimore Colts?? The Colts have had the best QB in the league, and have had seasons of 10,12,12,14 win seasons BEFORE finally winning the SB... but they knew to stick with Dungy. How about the Dallas Cowboys?? They won three SBs in 4 years in the early 90s, and have they been back since? How long is that?

                People want to say its been SOOOO long because its been 9 years since our SB run and wins! It hasn't been THAT long, and we haven't had a TRUE qualilty QB since Elway. Thats just the nature of the game. HoF TYPE QBs just don't come around all the time, and you have to be THRILLED with a coach that continues to win WITHOUT one. Shanahan has done amazing with QBs like Beurlein, Griese, and Plummer.

                I know people are frustrated. I understand that they 'think' we should have gone back to the SB by now. But damn, it just hasn't been THAT long since we've been... and OTHER teams that have lost their HoF QBs, don't recover as quickly as WE have!
                I don't know. I get what you're saying, but as I've stated repeatedly, there's a difference between being competitive and being a contender. Denver has been competitive since the mid-70's. We're always going to be a team other teams look at when we're on their schedule. But that comes from ownership - not the coach. It's the coach's job to take the competitive team and turn them into a contender, and in all fairness, short of 2005, Shanahan has not done that post-Elway.
                sigpic

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                • #53
                  Originally posted by mojo0730 View Post
                  In fairness, I predicted at best, we'd be 10-6, at worst, 7-9, 8-8 at the beginning of the season, so my expectations weren't unreasonably high.

                  But what I did expect was to see improvement in the areas we struggled with last season almost immediately - Special Teams, pass rush, scoring points - and 3 games into the season, we're still struggling with those problems, which should be a SERIOUS concern right now, especially after getting physically man-handled at home by a supposedly weaker team.
                  But why would you predict us to only have a 10-6 ...7-9 season if you expected everything to be fixed by week 3?? If everything was fixed, shouldn't you be expecting something closer to a 12-13 win season?

                  I think the reason anyone wouldn't expect more than a 10 win season is because they know/knew that we have a LOT to work on.. TONS... taht this team just wasn't ready yet.... and there really isn't reason to believe that it would be fixed and worked out by week three if thats what we knew would be the problems.

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                  • #54
                    Originally posted by Ravage!!! View Post
                    But why would you predict us to only have a 10-6 ...7-9 season if you expected everything to be fixed by week 3?? If everything was fixed, shouldn't you be expecting something closer to a 12-13 win season?

                    I think the reason anyone wouldn't expect more than a 10 win season is because they know/knew that we have a LOT to work on.. TONS... taht this team just wasn't ready yet.... and there really isn't reason to believe that it would be fixed and worked out by week three if thats what we knew would be the problems.
                    I'm not talking about 'fixed'. I'm talking about improvement.

                    3 games into the season, with all the changes we've made, we look almost exactly like last year's team.
                    sigpic

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                    • #55
                      Originally posted by BroncFanIN View Post
                      I think perhaps Shannahan is thinking the same thing. We have a LOT of talent on this team, a lot of it young and just starting to play together. Everything Shanahan does is with an eye on the SB.
                      He's made some great decisions in the past, and he's made some crappy ones, yes.
                      But you have to give this team time to gel and improve. With so many new faces and schemes being introduced, we are going to take some bumps and bruises along the way.

                      Expecting this team to come out and play like an elite Indy/NE team with all these new faces is waaay too much to expect.

                      This season, I am just sitting back and watching all this talent materialize and grow, because I think its something special. If we make the playoffs, horray! If not...oh well. We'll come back next year stronger and better.

                      And you can see the improvement on redzone offense from last week to this week. We did move the ball on the Jacksonville defense-when we were on the field.

                      So Shanahan is doing what a couch should be doing. It just happens this week he got out coached and our defense got outplayed. Jacksonville punched us in the mouth and we had a hard time recovering. But we did. Our defense only allowed 6 points in the second half, and both on VERY short fields: the 20 yard line and the 4 yard line.
                      So the defense did make some adjustments a half-time.
                      We got beat this week. It happens. Any given Sunday.

                      :clap::clap::clap: We have a very young team with gobs of tallent that we will enjoy for years. What % of starters on our team are playing their 2nd or first year?

                      For years, I think Shanahan didnt plan for the future. He was shooting for that year to win it all. This is the first time in YEARS I see a future team building up for Denver. I would like to get the ring this year, but I am pretty pumped about the future.

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by mojo0730 View Post
                        I don't know. I get what you're saying, but as I've stated repeatedly, there's a difference between being competitive and being a contender. Denver has been competitive since the mid-70's. We're always going to be a team other teams look at when we're on their schedule. But that comes from ownership - not the coach. It's the coach's job to take the competitive team and turn them into a contender, and in all fairness, short of 2005, Shanahan has not done that post-Elway.
                        And in ALL fairness... the FORTY Niners haven't been to or won a SB since the loss of their HoF QBs. The Dolphins haven't. The Cowboys haven't. The Bills haven't. The Patriots NEVEr won a SB before they got one. So I guess I'm curious as to why people think Shanahan hasn't made us competitive, and he CERTAINLY has made us contenders by being only ONE season removed from the AFC Championship...right? Why are we expecting more out of Shanahan than others have accomplished thoughout the NFL?

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                        • #57
                          Originally posted by TheComeBackKid View Post
                          Gosh you're so tough, I can just feel it in your dynamic and very profound way of proving that you're a "real" "grassroots" fanatic who paved the way for us youngins.

                          But no, considering I just spent 8 months in Iraq defending all of our rights to freedom of speech and opinion, I don't think I will "shut the flip up SON."

                          If you were going to debate me and my position, you should have read the text, but instead you assume that you know what my point is (and we all know what happens when we assume...right Grandpa?)

                          I never said anything about our loss, our one loss is insignificant to the fact that we have very real issues on this team. It was showing last season, it was showing in the preseason, it was showing in the first two games, and now it finally bit us in the rear end. But even that has nothing to do with the topic of the thread, which is Shanahan, I am not asking for his removal and I am sure not trying to become a fair weather fan but I am asking why he isn't EVER held responsible for dumb plays, humiliating defeats, and awful play calls.

                          I have not once said, nor will I ever say, that this team needs to replace Shanahan but..he needs to quit making excuses for why this team isn't performing and starting finding real solutions, because thats HIS JOB SON!

                          This has nothing to do with your service to our country (of which I greatly appreciate you doing for me what I am not capable of, ie working in the military.)

                          Me, tough? Not really, just mad at all the complaints after a loss - especially yours.

                          After the first few posts all I heard was... blah blah negative blah complaint blah blah. My point is that you are being negative. My single question is, "What is all of your complaining going to accomplish?" Do you hope to change Shanahan's behavior? Do you hope to convince Bowlen to remove Shanny from VP of Personnel?

                          Start finding real solutions, you say. Has it occurred to you that he is working on implementing his solution? Has it dawned upon you that maybe, just perhaps, playing/coaching (let alone winning) in the NFL is an incredibly dynamic process and isn't as easy as "insert tab A into slot B"? Perhaps he hasn't been able to acquire what he needs to get a championship team together. Perhaps Shanny has done incredible things with little or nothing to do it with.

                          It's the lot of a fan to be strapped into the roller coaster and enjoy the ride, 'cause after the car starts moving there's nothing the fans can do about it. And complaining isn't going to change how wild the ride will or won't be. You might as well just sit back and enjoy the ride because there's lots of ups and downs.

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                          • #58
                            Originally posted by Ravage!!! View Post
                            And in ALL fairness... the FORTY Niners haven't been to or won a SB since the loss of their HoF QBs. The Dolphins haven't. The Cowboys haven't. The Bills haven't. The Patriots NEVEr won a SB before they got one. So I guess I'm curious as to why people think Shanahan hasn't made us competitive, and he CERTAINLY has made us contenders by being only ONE season removed from the AFC Championship...right? Why are we expecting more out of Shanahan than others have accomplished thoughout the NFL?
                            Because the expectations of the Broncos every season is the Super Bowl. That may be fan expectations and that may be media expectations. But when it's the expectations of the team each and every season, and they make that known, then you have to hold them to those expectations. And having just 1 playoff victory and 1 divisional title in 9 years is WELL below those expectations, in my opinion. We spend the money - we should be doing much better than we have been.
                            sigpic

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                            • #59
                              Originally posted by JWALKER84 View Post
                              I couldn't disagree more. he is our coach and a great one. We lost one game. Slow down! We are going to need more time for this SCHEME to work out on defense. Shanny is a great coach. Tell me if he was gone who would be available to fill his shoes. If anything... Shanny stays and the D line goes!
                              2-1 against these 3 bottom feeder teams, which none, are picked to make the playoffs or have a winning record.

                              Scheme to work... I think most schemes the Broncs throw at the opponents are read like a book. No need for Video tape library confessions. Proof in the pudding, let's see how the D handles Indi, and Pitt.

                              Way... Way Too Many Coaching mistakes, not just Shanny, but knuckleheads up in the Sky Boxes, but, Shanahan is responsible.
                              Definition of Insanity, same thing over & over, expecting different results.

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                              • #60
                                Originally posted by mojo0730 View Post
                                I'm not talking about 'fixed'. I'm talking about improvement.

                                3 games into the season, with all the changes we've made, we look almost exactly like last year's team.
                                NOOOO way! We have a QB that is hitting 65.3% of his passes and leading this team to the #1 offense in the league. His stats are almost exactly comparible to Peyton Mannings! We have TWO stud WRs that are fantastic after the catch. Thats not like last year at all. We have already shown that our offense is something to be concerned with, because we DO move the ball. Against the Jax, we scored a TD on 2 out of 3 attempts IN the redzone, and only didn't get the FG on the other because we were running out of time.

                                Are we scoring tons yet? No. But you HAVE to see the improvement from this years offense over last years. Its HUGE.

                                I'm sorry. But this team is NOT like last years team at all.

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