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Interesting Comparison Between Pittsburgh's Bill Cowher and Mike Shanahan!

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  • #31
    Originally posted by humpbobby View Post
    No they dont man a GM dont tell his head coach this is who are drafting now deal with it.

    Like I said all 3 factors GM/Scout/HC sit down at the end season and they go from there.If the team is any kind of a winning franchise the HC has alot to do with who the team drafts.

    No one told Bill Cowher how to run the Steelers or who he had to draft.

    Dont expect me to buy that becuase it is not true.
    It is true.

    One of the deciding factors in Bill Parcells leaving New England is that, during one of their drafts, Parcells wanted player A, and the GM wanted player B, and the GM wound up overriding Parcells and drafted his guy. That led to Parcell's famous quote 'If I'm going to do the cooking, they can at least let me do the shopping' (or something to that effect).

    Whereas I have no doubt that most of the time, the GM and HC are on the same page, the GM on most teams has overriding authority on all talent decisions.
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    • #32
      [QUOTE=humpbobby;1973857]No they dont man a GM dont tell his head coach this is who we are drafting now deal with it. QUOTE

      Bro, ive seen BILL freakin PARCELLS at a press conference IN PERSON! use one of the greatest quotes ever!

      "They want me to cook the meal, but they wont let me buy the groceries!"

      This was in response to the Patsies NOT letting him be involved in the drafting process. This was the unltimate reason that he left that orginization.
      Yes, GMs draft players and tell the HC, DEAL WITH IT!
      Now, i dont know if it happened exactly that way in PIT, but thats what a GM does. Oversees the entire team, including the HC.

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      • #33
        My bad
        socalorado1
        I take that back I cant directly call out anyone for being a buffoon.
        God knows In the 20 years I have watched the Broncos I have said things that I now sit back and see how absurd I was..

        It is after all just opinions and the Broncos lost 41-3 @home last week.

        Until the Broncos win a SB and they are at the 10yr mark without winning one.
        Your Opinion as much as I would to think is wrong about the drafts is still very valid until we do.
        :logo: :logo: :logo: :logo: :logo:

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        • #34
          Originally posted by mojo0730 View Post
          It is true.

          One of the deciding factors in Bill Parcells leaving New England is that, during one of their drafts, Parcells wanted player A, and the GM wanted player B, and the GM wound up overriding Parcells and drafted his guy. That led to Parcell's famous quote 'If I'm going to do the cooking, they can at least let me do the shopping' (or something to that effect).

          Whereas I have no doubt that most of the time, the GM and HC are on the same page, the GM on most teams has overriding authority on all talent decisions.
          Dude, I swear I didnt even see your POST!!! LOL!!! Hows that for coincidence!!
          .We got the parcells quotes going too! HAHA!!

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          • #35
            Originally posted by StillSpike View Post
            Not true.
            Actually - we beat the Browns 36-33 in one of the greatest comebacks ever in the wildcard game with Tommy Maddox at QB!... and lost the divisional playoff game to Tennessee in OT.

            It's all about Ben.

            And now this year it's all about Tomlin.....he's lit the fire again.

            Many in Steeltown have said we won SB XL in spite of Cowher.
            His conservative ways were always compared to Martyball. Those days are over.

            We got a new sheriff in town.
            That's right. I"d forgotten that the Steelers won the wild-card and lost to the Titans. But, the point is the same. As a Steelers fan you can remember that many were calling for Cowher to be fired, saying that he had been coach too long and was losing his touch, etc.

            As for the "new sheriff in town" he hasn't won a championship yet. Win the SB, then talk. I'm not saying the Steelers can't win a championship with Tomlin, so far he's done a good job, but there's a difference between winning a few games in the regular season and beating the Colts and Patriots and winning a SB!

            It remains to be seen if the current Steelers team is good enough. Frankly, nobody knows yet.

            As for comments that Shanahan should be removed from control over drafting: I wanted that for years while recognizing that he would never stay in Denver if Bowlen put a GM over him and took control over player personnel away from him.

            But, now that he's had 3 good drafts in a row I'd say that criticism has lost it's force. Despite drafting consistently in the bottom third of the first round every year he's done an amazing job finding good players in 2005, 2006 and 2007. Before that you can rip his drafts as horrible or mediocre, but not now. Moss, Ryan, Crowder and Thomas are good young prospects, and Cutler, Sheffler, Dumervil and Brandon Marshall are already paying dividends. That's 8 good players from the draft in 2 years. Throw in Darrent Williams and Foxworth from the 2005 draft (despite not having a 1st round pick) and that's a pretty good draft too. Paymah has yet to prove himself, but he's still on the team, and he was only a 3rd rounder, so it's not the end of the world if he doesn't pan out.

            Overall, 10 good players from the last three drafts is pretty decent drafting.And that doesn't even include trading a 2nd round pick for Javon Walker, which was a brilliant move (unless his knee injury returns or something).
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            • #36
              Originally posted by humpbobby View Post
              My bad
              socalorado1
              I take that back I cant directly call out anyone for being a buffoon.
              God knows In the 20 years I have watched the Broncos I have said things that I now sit back and see how absurd I was..

              It is after all just opinions and the Broncos lost 41-3 @home last week.

              Until the Broncos win a SB and they are at the 10yr mark without winning one.
              Your Opinion as much as I would to think is wrong about the drafts is still very valid until we do.
              Aw shucks.
              Its all good. Like i said i have bashed him in the past.
              We'll just have to wait and see i guess what happens this year.
              Shanny has done better these last 2 drafts so, i cant wait to see him go again this upcoming draft. Should be interesting.

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              • #37
                But, now that he's had 3 good drafts in a row I'd say that criticism has lost it's force. Despite drafting consistently in the bottom third of the first round every year he's done an amazing job finding good players in 2005, 2006 and 2007. Before that you can rip his drafts as horrible or mediocre, but not now. Moss, Ryan, Crowder and Thomas are good young prospects, and Cutler, Sheffler, Dumervil and Brandon Marshall are already paying dividends. That's 8 good players from the draft in 2 years. Throw in Darrent Williams and Foxworth from the 2005 draft (despite not having a 1st round pick) and that's a pretty good draft too. Paymah has yet to prove himself, but he's still on the team, and he was only a 3rd rounder, so it's not the end of the world if he doesn't pan out.

                Overall, 10 good players from the last three drafts is pretty decent drafting.
                I agree 100%. The last two drafts (I won't go as far back as three because I don't think our 2005 was all that great) have looked more promising.

                That said, none of those guys are Pro Bowl material yet, and it's still far too early to make an ultimate determination if these guys will be successful for us year-in and year-out. I mean, Deltha O'Neal and Ashley Lelie showed promoise initially, and we've seen how they ultimately panned out. And even two consecutive good drafts doesn't make up for 5 consecutive years of very poor drafting. I think most of the Broncos problems over the past two seasons is the result of those poor drafts.
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                • #38
                  Originally posted by Cugel View Post
                  Then in 2002 they fell to 10-5-1, and lost the wild-card game to the Cleveland Browns in overtime. There was much fan criticism and media speculation that Cowher's time in Pittsburgh was nearing it's end. They said the team was going backwards, etc.
                  The Steelers won that crazy wildcard game. They lost in the divisional series that year to the Titans. As I remember that game the Titans first attempt at a game winning field goal missed, however, the kicker took a dive. A penalty flag was thrown. The next kick made it thru. Such is life.


                  http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/pit2002.htm

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Cugel View Post
                    But, the point is the same. As a Steelers fan you can remember that many were calling for Cowher to be fired, saying that he had been coach too long and was losing his touch, etc.

                    As for the "new sheriff in town" he hasn't won a championship yet. Win the SB, then talk. I'm not saying the Steelers can't win a championship with Tomlin, so far he's done a good job, but there's a difference between winning a few games in the regular season and beating the Colts and Patriots and winning a SB!
                    The point is the Steelers took 15 years to win a SB.
                    Ben was the difference.

                    The word is Cowher wanted to take a OL in that draft but Art Rooney overuled the coaching staff because he didn't want to let another "Marino" slip through his fingers. That's how we got Ben.

                    The 2006 year was a bust...Cowher was coaching fom his porch in Carolina and the team lost focus and the spark wasn't there.

                    Everybody knew it was time for Cowher to leave - his act was stale and we moved on.

                    You wouldn't believe the energy a new coach has brought. Most importantly, the players are buying in and are ready to run through brick walls for this guy.

                    You'll see. He brings a "presence".
                    He cut the fat and kicked out the "coach's pets" and the underachievers and we love it.

                    My point - change is good.

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                    • #40
                      I didn't read all the posts on this thread, just the first page.

                      Apparently I don't get the topic. At all...

                      Who's been talking about "firing Shanahan"??? I've yet to read that in a thread, although I've authored and read more than a few threads about firing Jim Bates. But Shanahan??? Either you're reading threads that I've missed, making it up, or projecting. I suppose it's possible you have a secret decoder ring that allows you into "classified" threads that I can't gain entry into....but I doubt it.

                      Where's this "fire Shanny" coming from, dude? Seriously. The D Post? The Rocky Mountain News....ESPN??? Where???

                      If you're talking about the same nutjobs that call for Shanahan's head no matter what the Bronco's do, then you can relax. Those are all Raider fans just pretending to be Denver fans.

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                      • #41
                        Your right Ben was the difference.

                        In 2005 and 2006

                        man StillSpike you seem awful quick to kick the coach in the back that made the team that Tomlin is coaching today.

                        From an outside perspective I like the moves that the Steelers made during the offseason.But I wont ever give any other then Bill Cowher credit for the SB that you guys did win.

                        And if im thinking correctly one of Bill's former coaches whiped the Steelers with the Cardinals.

                        Dont like Joey Porter huh? did you feel that way the year you guys won the SB ?
                        :logo: :logo: :logo: :logo: :logo:

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by humpbobby View Post
                          Your right Ben was the difference.

                          In 2005 and 2006

                          man StillSpike you seem awful quick to kick the coach in the back that made the team that Tomlin is coaching today.

                          Dont like Joey Porter huh? did you feel that way the year you guys won the SB ?

                          Cowher was a legend - he kept the team competitive year in and year out and got us to the playoffs too many years to count. He was a great coach and everyone appreciates what he did in Pittsburgh.

                          But the topic was winning SB's. We lost to Dallas and lost too many AFC championship games not to know that something different had to be done.

                          The difference was Ben, and a willingness not to turn turtle in the big games.

                          About Joey Porter....I wasn't talking about him....he did his job and single-handedly wiped out Peyton to take us to the SB....for that he will always be loved.

                          I was talking about some of our bench-warmers who took up cap and bench space while contributing little or nothing.

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                          • #43
                            excellent clarification stillspike.
                            Normally I would tell you good luck after a number of good post.
                            But no not this week I have nothing but Ill will for you man.
                            I have 3 football fans that we have watched a zillion games together.
                            1 likes the Steelers and wont come near me during the game he wont even come over and watch at my house and I have a 63inch big screen and free beer.
                            :logo: :logo: :logo: :logo: :logo:

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by humpbobby View Post
                              excellent clarification stillspike.
                              Normally I would tell you good luck after a number of good post.
                              But no not this week I have nothing but Ill will for you man.
                              I have a good friend who's a Pats fan. I won't let in the house to watch games either. I have Sunday Ticket, Tivo and a big screen with surround sound. Let him go the bars and watch with all their other bandwagon whores.

                              Oh yeah - the donkeys suck.

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                              • #45
                                [QUOTE=humpbobby;1973928]man StillSpike you seem awful quick to kick the coach in the back that made the team that Tomlin is coaching today./QUOTE]

                                I think you will find that most Steeler fans feel that Bill Cowher let us down in 2006. This was a superbowl calaber team that started out 2-6. Maybe it was because of Ben's problems or maybe it was because Cowher wasn't making the right decisions. I'd hate to think Cowher didn't care but the intensity was not there like in previous years.

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