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Interesting Comparison Between Pittsburgh's Bill Cowher and Mike Shanahan!

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  • #46
    [QUOTE=steelrazor;1974059]
    Originally posted by humpbobby View Post
    man StillSpike you seem awful quick to kick the coach in the back that made the team that Tomlin is coaching today./QUOTE]

    I think you will find that most Steeler fans feel that Bill Cowher let us down in 2006. This was a superbowl calaber team that started out 2-6. Maybe it was because of Ben's problems or maybe it was because Cowher wasn't making the right decisions. I'd hate to think Cowher didn't care but the intensity was not there like in previous years.
    Well, at least he realized that and stepped aside after the season.

    I think if he had to do it over, he probably would have just retired after their Super Bowl victory. Cowher doesn't strike me as a quitter, and I don't think he wanted to abandon his team following that win.
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    • #47
      Originally posted by Darth Tyger View Post
      I didn't read all the posts on this thread, just the first page.

      Apparently I don't get the topic. At all...

      Who's been talking about "firing Shanahan"??? I've yet to read that in a thread, although I've authored and read more than a few threads about firing Jim Bates. But Shanahan??? Either you're reading threads that I've missed, making it up, or projecting. I suppose it's possible you have a secret decoder ring that allows you into "classified" threads that I can't gain entry into....but I doubt it.

      Where's this "fire Shanny" coming from, dude? Seriously. The D Post? The Rocky Mountain News....ESPN??? Where???

      If you're talking about the same nutjobs that call for Shanahan's head no matter what the Bronco's do, then you can relax. Those are all Raider fans just pretending to be Denver fans.

      You are seriously criticizing me asking "who's called for firing Shanahan?"

      Answer: TONS of posters on these boards. And there will be a lot more if the Broncos lose to Pittsburgh. Here are some of the threads:

      http://forums.denverbroncos.com/showthread.php?t=102346

      "
      I CALL IN SHANNY AND TELL HIM THAT AT THE END OF THE YEAR HE IS OUT!!! I FIRE THE ENTIRE COACHING STAFF TED SUNDQUIST THE GENERAL MANAGER AND RIP THE TEAM UP AND REBUILD WITH GOOD YOUNG TALENT!!!!
      Fairly typical: http://forums.denverbroncos.com/showthread.php?t=103599http://forums.denverbroncos.com/showthread.php?t=103599

      It's time folks to get a different approach in here. Mike has lost this team and Bill would be the perfect medicine for this organization. They need a fire under them! Mike has done alot of great things for this team and franchise, but all great coaches move on, I feel its Mike's time.
      Another thread:

      I LOVE the Broncos and always will, but I really believe that some serious changes need to be made, ie, maybe time to look for a new coach, or, let Shanny focus on coaching only and hire someone to be the GM!!!
      That's just a handful.

      And like I said, just wait until Sunday and THEN ask "who's calling for Shanahan to be fired!" if the Broncos lose another home game like the San Diego game. There will be hundreds of fans at the least calling for Shanahan's head in talk shows and online.

      And my point is that they will ALL be wrong!
      Last edited by JWinn; 10-18-2007, 11:50 AM.
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      • #48
        And my point is that they will ALL be wrong!
        ...in YOUR opinion.

        Let's make that clear.

        IN MY OPINION, if we lose at home to Pittsburgh in a similar manner we lost to San Diego, then fans have a serious right to question the direction of this football team and whether or not Shanahan still has what it takes to coach this team.

        If we lose 24-27 or 27-30, then fans may be more forgiving. But if the score is 35-10 or 42-3 or some garbage like that, then yeah, the fans have a JUSTIFIABLE right to question Mike Shanahan's coaching abilities.
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        • #49
          Originally posted by Cugel View Post
          I'm really starting to get the impression that you're thicker than a ham-sandwich!

          You are seriously criticizing me asking "who's called for firing Shanahan?"

          Answer: TONS of posters on these boards. And there will be a lot more if the Broncos lose to Pittsburgh. Here are some of the threads:

          http://forums.denverbroncos.com/showthread.php?t=102346

          "

          Fairly typical: http://forums.denverbroncos.com/showthread.php?t=103599http://forums.denverbroncos.com/showthread.php?t=103599


          Another thread:



          That's just a handful.

          And like I said, just wait until Sunday and THEN ask "who's calling for Shanahan to be fired!" if the Broncos lose another home game like the San Diego game. There will be hundreds of fans at the least calling for Shanahan's head in talk shows and online.

          And my point is that they will ALL be wrong!
          I guess we just wait and see now. Thats kinda how i'm going to approach all this talk from now on. if at week 11 it warrants more discussion(bashing to some) we continue the talk. till then, GO ROCKIES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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          • #50
            Originally posted by Ravage!!! View Post
            Yeah... I was going to point this out as well. People want to say that Plummer was somehow 'better' than the QBs Cowher coached, but he sure wasn't BEFORE he came to Denver.

            Some wish to either forget, or ignore, that Shanahan JUST TOOK the Broncos (led by Plummer) to the AFC Champion game in 2005.. not exactly a LONG time ago.

            Also, as you mentioned about success.... I've pointed out that Shanahan has more wins and more playoff appearances than anyone else in History after losing a franchise QB (and having to deal with those in between QBs) other than Tom Landry (who went from Staubach to Danny White). So its VERY hard to say that Shanahan hasn't done well with mediocre QBs.
            ...yeah, in a season (2005) in which EVERYTHING broke perfectly for the Broncos to win it all, and then at home, in a game in which they were favored, Shanahan provided a woefully inadequate gameplan, and watched his team get beat like they always do, by a tougher, more physical team in the underdog Steelers.

            Shanahan has now been an NFL Head Coach in 14 plus NFL seasons, and has won 8 playoff games, if my count is correct, and seven of those came in two seasons after the 1997/98 campaigns. So, yes, with the Super Bowls, he scaled the heights of greatness, but the reality is, the average Shanahan-type season is a backdoor Wild Card berth at 10-6, only to get blown out on the road, if they make it at all...so really, all the Shanahan supporters can say is that he has been able to avoid, with the exception of the 1999 6-10 season, the 'pothole' type losing season...although this year is looking more and more like one every week.

            Do you think Tom Flores is a great, Hall of Fame Head Coach? Because really, when you look at it, that is about what Mike Shanahan is...he has two Super Bowl wins as well, and no one ever mentions his name in the conversations of great head Coaches.

            Until he wins again big, sans Elway, that is about to what Shanahan can be compared, regardless of what his apologists suggest.

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            • #51
              Originally posted by Cugel View Post
              That's right. I"d forgotten that the Steelers won the wild-card and lost to the Titans. But, the point is the same. As a Steelers fan you can remember that many were calling for Cowher to be fired, saying that he had been coach too long and was losing his touch, etc.

              As for the "new sheriff in town" he hasn't won a championship yet. Win the SB, then talk. I'm not saying the Steelers can't win a championship with Tomlin, so far he's done a good job, but there's a difference between winning a few games in the regular season and beating the Colts and Patriots and winning a SB!

              It remains to be seen if the current Steelers team is good enough. Frankly, nobody knows yet.

              As for comments that Shanahan should be removed from control over drafting: I wanted that for years while recognizing that he would never stay in Denver if Bowlen put a GM over him and took control over player personnel away from him.

              But, now that he's had 3 good drafts in a row I'd say that criticism has lost it's force. Despite drafting consistently in the bottom third of the first round every year he's done an amazing job finding good players in 2005, 2006 and 2007. Before that you can rip his drafts as horrible or mediocre, but not now. Moss, Ryan, Crowder and Thomas are good young prospects, and Cutler, Sheffler, Dumervil and Brandon Marshall are already paying dividends. That's 8 good players from the draft in 2 years. Throw in Darrent Williams and Foxworth from the 2005 draft (despite not having a 1st round pick) and that's a pretty good draft too. Paymah has yet to prove himself, but he's still on the team, and he was only a 3rd rounder, so it's not the end of the world if he doesn't pan out.

              Overall, 10 good players from the last three drafts is pretty decent drafting.And that doesn't even include trading a 2nd round pick for Javon Walker, which was a brilliant move (unless his knee injury returns or something).

              OK, this post has to be called out for it's inaccuracy.

              Concerning the past three Drafts, I don't think they can at all be considered
              'amazing' on any level.

              2005: Darrent Williams (God rest his soul), was on the verge of being exposed as an over-rated CB after what was a promising Rookie year. His play regressed in '06, and was really not much better against the Colts than Roc Alexander was a few years back when he got torched. Because of Williams' unfortunate death, he has been matyrized here to a certain degree, and his play has been exaggerated for the positive. IMO, he would have been considered a weak-link in our secondary this year. Look no further than our game against Indy in which Dre Bly did not get roasted as an example of just how much of an upgrade Bly is over Williams to our Defense. To me, Williams was really very reminiscent of Mike Croel, who won Rookie of the Year in his first year here in Denver, but by year five, Croel was playing for his career in NFL Europe.

              Dominique Foxworth: I don't know how you can praise the selction of a backup CB coming out of the third round; the NFL is full of them. The Broncos did not think enough of Foxworth to even consider him as a possible replacement as a starter to D Williams, and went and spent big money to secure Dre Bly. Foxworth is an average NFL Corner at best.

              Karl Paymah: Has been keeping one foot on the edge of getting cut from the roster altogether. To me, if he has to play any extended period of time, that is not a good thing. His real contribution by now should be on Special Teams, but he does not stand out there, either.

              2006:

              Cutler: I agree the move to trade up and get Cutler was a great move. I guess in Shanahan's 12 years of drafting at that time, even a blind squirrel finds an acorn every now and then...for Shanahan, that makes two out of sixty-something selections during his tenure when you add in the selection of Terrell Davis back in '95 (although long-time Broncos fans know that was a Gary Kubiak find).

              Scheffler: Hard to call a guy who can't get on the field a great pick. The reality is, Scheffler has shown flashes, or at least he did last year, but has yet to show the toughness or the development of a player you can count on, as you seem to be. He should have been over his foot injury in August...where is he in the gameplan?

              Dumervil: Has been everything you could have hoped for and more...except that my preference, Alabama/Chicago's Mark Anderson, was the better prospect. At best Dumervil is a very good third down rush DE; he is still never going to be what you want in a starting DE...but he currently starts for us.
              That's not a positive.

              Brandon Marshall: He just oozes potential...but he also has a disturbing knucklehead quality to him as well...I mean, we all seem to be buying into the 'Baby TO' concept, but the truth is, Marshall could just as easily be the next Travis Henry....and if you look at the numbers, he hasn't been spectacular yet. There is reason to be enthusiastic about Marshall, but can we get a little perspective here and have him actually earn it with his play on the field?

              2007: I think here you are simply confusing players that you like and approved the drafting of, with being productive Draft choices, because collectively, Moss, Crowder and Thomas have one sack between them, and a fluke INT in five games....and I will still say, Anthony Spencer has shown me more in Dallas than Moss has here, and Tim Crowder still basically does nothing on game days, as was his MO at Texas...seems some things are reluctant to change.


              So hold your proverbial horses, because while Foxworth, Scheffler, Dumervil, Marshall, Moss, Crowder and Thomas look good on paper, it's only due to the compete failures of the previous several Drafts conducted under the Shanahan regime.
              Their eventual success, or failure, will be the real determination of recent Draft(s) results...but you seem to have already deposited them all into the 'sure thing' account, which they certainly are not.

              Comment


              • #52
                Mindfield, how did you become so darn smart?
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                • #53
                  Originally posted by mojo0730 View Post
                  Mindfield, how did you become so darn smart?
                  I have watched the Broncos for over 30 years now. Through that time, I spent my youth watching the Broncos evolve from an NFL doormat, to the magical 1977 'Orange Crush' season that was not unlike what you are seeing now with the Colorado Rockies...and I got my heart broken for the first time in SB XII when the Dallas Cowboys thumped them 27-10 (and DAMN IT!!, 30 years later, I STILL say that Butch Johnson dropped that TD pass!!...what a BS call!!).

                  In my adolescence, I watched the infancy of what would become a Legendary NFL QB in John Elway, and watched the Broncos take another step up the ladder, only to see them get their brains beat in in Super Bowls when they were completely outclassed and undermanned. I still remember puking at 3am in the morning while stationed in Germany in a drunken stuper as my Super Bowl dreams turned to a nightmare in one incredibly bad second Qtr. The Washington Redskins scored SIX, count 'em, SIX TD's in one QTR, and my 10-0 Bronco lead turned to a 10-42 deficit in about 30 minutes. That was only topped by the extreme embarassment of the 55-10 ass whoppin the SF 49ers (still the greatest NFL team I ever saw assembled) put on them two years later....the only thing that saved me that year was watching my alma matter, UNLV (still the single greatest NCAA BB team ever assembled, BTW), beat the living daylights out of Duke 103-73 for the Nat'l Championship...but I got sidetracked here...

                  Then, finally, in my adulthood when the Broncos finally broke through and won it all. I have basically seen it all from the Broncos, the Good, the Bad and the Ugly, and I know what I see when I see it. To me, it's almost a constant revolving case of Deja' vu, when it's good or bad. They seem to be this incredibly large collection of repeating events.

                  As far as the Draft stuff goes, I was a nerdy kid that used to read the seven week, pre-Draft info that the Sporting News used to publish, long before the Mel Kiper's, or Scout's Inc. or whatever existed...I remember feeling good about myself when a player I projected to the Broncos as a good second round pick in 1979(?), Billy Ard, a 6'3"-300lb OG from Virginia, was selected by Bill Parcells and the NY Giants, and became a mainstay on that Giant O-line for several years, including SB XXII against the Broncos themselves.

                  So by now, I have seen it all, and I have neither the time or desire to make excuses for the Broncos. I call 'em as I see 'em, and I am not always right....but I am right more often than I am wrong, fortunately or unfortunately, however you choose to see it. I have no allegiance or emotional attachment to individual players or coaches. They get paid incredible amounts of money to do what alot of us would do for free, so to me, the bottom line is win, or if you don't, hit the road jack.

                  As far as Mike Shanahan goes, I have mixed feelings. I have incredible respect for what he has accomplished here, regardless of how his tenure in Denver ends. When he won those Super Bowls, he accomplished what alot of people thought was impossible, especially considering the fact we were a four-time SB loser, and all of the psycological stuff that they had to overcome, etc...but since that time, I have lost alot respect for both the Man and the Coach. I think Shanahan is a power-hungry control freak. I think he has serious judgement issues with regard to player personnel, so bad in fact that it ultimately may be the single reason the Broncos never win another Super Bowl while he is in charge...he is that questionable with is evaluations and Draft selections. To me, that more than anything is his Achillies Heel. Let's just say he's no Jimmy Johnson when it comes to player evaluation.

                  Shanahan has also had some very disturbing personal fallouts to people he was once very close to, not the least of which includes John Elway himself (it is no secret in Denver that their relatioinship has cooled dramatically over the years). I was also very disappointed in his handling of the firing of David and Alex Gibbs. He handled both very poorly, and showed a very important part of the success of the Denver Broncos, and his son, David, damn little respect, IMO. To me, you just don't treat people that important to your success that way, period. His relationship with Ray Rhodes also deteriorated in record time for a couple of coaches that worked together with the SF 49ers and won a SB, especially when you considering how respected, League wide, Ray Rhodes was.....the three Defensive Coordinators he has fired since 2001 as fall guys....you get the picture.

                  Bottom line: I don't advocate the firing of Mike Shanahan. I know enough to know it's real easy to say 'Fire Him'!...because if you do that, you better have a better answer, but I am not sure there is one, including Bill Cowher.

                  For me, Shanahan's Legacy is tied to Jay Cutler. He will get another four years or so to build a Super Bowl calibur team and try to win another Title. Since Shanahan has compete control over football operations here in Denver, it is fair to say all scrutinizing eyes are set squarely on him.

                  It will be interesting to see how it all pans out.
                  Last edited by MindField; 10-17-2007, 09:51 PM.

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                  • #54
                    Originally posted by MindField View Post
                    I have watched the Broncos for over 30 years now. Through that time, I spent my youth watching the Broncos evolve from an NFL doormat, to the magical 1977 'Orange Crush' season that was not unlike what you are seeing now with the Colorado Rockies...and I got my heart broken for the first time in SB XII when the Dallas Cowboys thumped them 27-10 (and DAMN IT!!, 30 years later, I STILL say that Butch Johnson dropped that TD pass!!...what a BS call!!).

                    In my adolescence, I watched the infancy of what would become a Legendary NFL QB in John Elway, and watched the Broncos take another step up the ladder, only to see them get their brains beat in in Super Bowls when they were completely outclassed and undermanned. I still remember puking at 3am in the morning while stationed in Germany in a drunken stuper as my Super Bowl dreams turned to a nightmare in one incredibly bad second Qtr. The Washington Redskins scored SIX, count 'em, SIX TD's in one QTR, and my 10-0 Bronco lead turned to a 10-42 deficit in about 30 minutes. That was only topped by the extreme embarassment of the 55-10 ass whoppin the SF 49ers (still the greatest NFL team I ever saw assembled) put on them two years later....the only thing that saved me that year was watching my alma matter, UNLV (still the single greatest NCAA BB team ever assembled, BTW), beat the living daylights out of Duke 103-73 for the Nat'l Championship...but I got sidetracked here...

                    Then, finally, in my adulthood when the Broncos finally broke through and won it all. I have basically seen it all from the Broncos, the Good, the Bad and the Ugly, and I know what I see when I see it. To me, it's almost a constant revolving case of Deja' vu, when it's good or bad. They seem to be this incredibly large collection of repeating events.

                    As far as the Draft stuff goes, I was a nerdy kid that used to read the seven week, pre-Draft info that the Sporting News used to publish, long before the Mel Kiper's, or Scout's Inc. or whatever existed...I remember feeling good about myself when a player I projected to the Broncos as a good second round pick in 1979(?), Billy Ard, a 6'3"-300lb OG from Virginia, was selected by Bill Parcells and the NY Giants, and became a mainstay on that Giant O-line for several years, including SB XXII against the broncos themselves.

                    So by now, I have seen it all, and I have neither the time or desire to make excuses for the Broncos. I call 'em as I see 'em, and I am not always right....but I am right more often than I am wrong, fortunately or unfortunately, however you choose to see it.
                    That's awesome.

                    My story is nowhere near as fascinating. I've only been a Broncos fan for 17 years (although you can really say I was born into it, being from Denver and being raised by rabid Broncos fans my entire life).

                    In that time, I have seen many ups and downs, as well. And I, too, call 'em as I see 'em. The absolute fact is, that if you take away Shanahan's time with Elway, he is an absolutely average coach. Period. That includes his stint with the Raiders, as well. And every year when it's apparent this team again isn't a contender, I hear the same excuses. 'We've had injuries. We're a young team. Let (insert QB name here) time to develop. We have a tough schedule. Blah, blah, blah.' Shanahan has had 8 seasons to prove to everyone that he's deserving of the 'Mastermind' title he was billed with, and what has he done? We have a significant number of failed #1 picks, only 4 playoff appearances, 3 different franchise quarterbacks, four defensive coordinators, 1 divisional title, and four utterly embarrassing playoff losses. For a team with the expectations of the Broncos, that's not cutting it. Throw any excuse you want at it, that's just how I feel. I still hold out hope that Shanahan proves me wrong...but this team isn't heading in the right direction.
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                    • #55
                      Originally posted by mojo0730 View Post
                      That's awesome.

                      My story is nowhere near as fascinating. I've only been a Broncos fan for 17 years (although you can really say I was born into it, being from Denver and being raised by rabid Broncos fans my entire life).

                      In that time, I have seen many ups and downs, as well. And I, too, call 'em as I see 'em. The absolute fact is, that if you take away Shanahan's time with Elway, he is an absolutely average coach. Period. That includes his stint with the Raiders, as well. And every year when it's apparent this team again isn't a contender, I hear the same excuses. 'We've had injuries. We're a young team. Let (insert QB name here) time to develop. We have a tough schedule. Blah, blah, blah.' Shanahan has had 8 seasons to prove to everyone that he's deserving of the 'Mastermind' title he was billed with, and what has he done? We have a significant number of failed #1 picks, only 4 playoff appearances, 3 different franchise quarterbacks, four defensive coordinators, 1 divisional title, and four utterly embarrassing playoff losses. For a team with the expectations of the Broncos, that's not cutting it. Throw any excuse you want at it, that's just how I feel. I still hold out hope that Shanahan proves me wrong...but this team isn't heading in the right direction.

                      Me too. I hope that Pat Bowlen's faith eventually pays off as Pittsburgh's did with Bill Cowher when their fans were calling for his head. It's not that I don't think Shanahan is not a capable HC, because I think he is, and I also think he finally has the QB to get him back there. That's important because I will always believe that the NFL is still a QB's League first and foremost, and you have to have a very good to great one to win it. I love what I see from Cutler, so with that Shanahan has a chance...but I tell you, these kids he drafted last spring better be the real deal, because the Defense has virtually nothing to build on if they bust out.

                      This season reminds me alot of 1994. We were phasing out vets like Meck and Dennis Smith then, and turning to young players, some of which Shanahan re-built with like Tom Nalen and Rod Smith. To me, that's what the rest of this season is all about, because to me, this team has no real chance to reach the Playoffs, and I would really expect a losing record at this point, especially with 5 of their last 7 games on the road.

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by MindField View Post
                        Me too. I hope that Pat Bowlen's faith eventually pays off as Pittsburgh's did with Bill Cowher when their fans were calling for his head. It's not that I don't think Shanahan is not a capable HC, because I think he is, and I also think he finally has the QB to get him back there. That's important because I will always believe that the NFL is still a QB's League first and foremost, and you have to have a very good to great one to win it. I love what I see from Cutler, so with that Shanahan has a chance...but I tell you, these kids he drafted last spring better be the real deal, because the Defense has virtually nothing to build on if they bust out.

                        This season reminds me alot of 1994. We were phasing out vets like Meck and Dennis Smith then, and turning to young players, some of which Shanahan re-built with like Tom Nalen and Rod Smith. To me, that's what the rest of this season is all about, because to me, this team has no real chance to reach the Playoffs, and I would really expect a losing record at this point, especially with 5 of their last 7 games on the road.
                        I, too, believe Cutler will be a great QB still. However, I'd be lying if I said I wasn't concern about his 4-6 record as a starter so far after 10 games. Most of the great QBs I've seen in my time (Marino, Elway, Favre, Montana), despite any struggles they may have had initially, won games almost immediately. The only exception to that has been Peyton Manning, but even he went from 3-13 to 13-3 after just won season.

                        I also would be lying if I said I could write off all our problems squarely on youth and inexperience. I've seen enough football games and enough bad football teams to know when there's a deeply rooted problem. I don't know if it's a design flaw, a scheme flaw, a personnel flaw, a coaching flaw, or something else, but there's something not right about this team.
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                        • #57
                          Originally posted by mojo0730 View Post
                          That's awesome.

                          My story is nowhere near as fascinating. I've only been a Broncos fan for 17 years (although you can really say I was born into it, being from Denver and being raised by rabid Broncos fans my entire life).

                          In that time, I have seen many ups and downs, as well. And I, too, call 'em as I see 'em. The absolute fact is, that if you take away Shanahan's time with Elway, he is an absolutely average coach. Period. That includes his stint with the Raiders, as well. And every year when it's apparent this team again isn't a contender, I hear the same excuses. 'We've had injuries. We're a young team. Let (insert QB name here) time to develop. We have a tough schedule. Blah, blah, blah.' Shanahan has had 8 seasons to prove to everyone that he's deserving of the 'Mastermind' title he was billed with, and what has he done? We have a significant number of failed #1 picks, only 4 playoff appearances, 3 different franchise quarterbacks, four defensive coordinators, 1 divisional title, and four utterly embarrassing playoff losses. For a team with the expectations of the Broncos, that's not cutting it. Throw any excuse you want at it, that's just how I feel. I still hold out hope that Shanahan proves me wrong...but this team isn't heading in the right direction.
                          WEll! It good to see some sober posts here! Man, i was expecting to come in today and see a bunch of "SoCalorado1 is a hater!" "stop bashing, man"
                          posts.
                          MINDFIELD Excellent posts!!!
                          MOJO Excellent posts!!
                          You guys summed it up in a couple of posts exactly what ive been seeing in this team for years now.
                          I dont quite fall into MINDFIELDS longetivity, more so MOJO's.
                          Yeah, i can remember watching the DRIVE II against Houston and just laughing my butt off as everyone in the room wanted me dead!
                          Oh those were the days! Nothing better than ripping victory from the jaws of defeat the way Elway did it! I got so accustomed to it.
                          I think even with the heartbreaking victories and defeats, i like you guys started living for those moments! You get addicted! Now i think alot of us that had that "ELWAY ADDICTION" are hoping to get hooked again with Cutler.
                          But our illustrious HC seems to be doing everything he can to keep that from happening. I just see a pattern and like you guys, call em like i see em.

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                          • #58
                            Also dont forget, for may years the the Steelers FO gutted the team of its FA. which probably cost them a SB or 2. I don't think Bowlen doest that' hes not that cheap!!!

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                            • #59
                              Originally posted by MindField View Post
                              ...yeah, in a season (2005) in which EVERYTHING broke perfectly for the Broncos to win it all, and then at home, in a game in which they were favored, Shanahan provided a woefully inadequate gameplan, and watched his team get beat like they always do, by a tougher, more physical team in the underdog Steelers.
                              Its funny to read YOU type out about gameplans, when you don't have a friggin' clue what a game plan is about or how to make one up.

                              I watched Ron Jawarski break down the game film of that AFC Championship game (at which he does better than/as good as anyone else in the NFL)...and watched him point out time and time again how Plummer missed WIDE OPEN WRs due to Plummer mis-reading the defenses. Funny how a game plan looks 'inadequate' when the very players executing the plan are blowing their jobs.

                              Toss in the fact that those that have never set foot on a football field are trying to suggest Shanahan is the one that put the 'wrong plan' together is asinine.

                              Until he wins again big, sans Elway, that is about to what Shanahan can be compared, regardless of what his apologists suggest.
                              This is the biggest load of horse crap yet. How many years did Noll coach Bradshaw, and how many SBs did Noll win without Bradshaw ( 12 & 0)? How many years did Walsh coach Montana and how many SBs did he win without Montana (10-0)? How many SBs did Tom Landry coach Roger Staubach and how many SBs did he win without him (9-0)?

                              Now, how many years did Shanahn coach John Elway (4)? So why is it that so many other coaches don't win without their HoF QB and its never mentioned how THEY never won, hmmm? How many did Johnson win without Aikman, how many has Belicheck won without Brady?

                              HOW MANY Coaches won a SB with Elway BEFORE Shanahan got there? Funny how Elway never went to the SB when Shanahan wasn't either the OC or the HC. Funny how no one else was able to take Elway and the Broncos TO the SB or win it, without Shanahan being a part of it. Funny how Steve Young never won a SB until SHanahan was part of the equation.

                              Yet you want to ignore that. You want to ignore the fact that no one else won while coaching Shanahan.. yet it was only Elway that made Shanahan look good. Funny that the only coach to win Multible SBs without having a SINGLE HoF QB... was Joe Gibbs. Shanahan has gone to the playoffs more times than any other coach in HISTORY following the retirement of such talent behind center, and yet YOU (the mastermind of game plans) are saying that HE is the one that isn't "accomplishing" anything. Riiiiiiiiiight

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                              • #60
                                Originally posted by Ravage!!! View Post
                                I watched Ron Jawarski break down the game film of that AFC Championship game (at which he does better than/as good as anyone else in the NFL)...and watched him point out time and time again how Plummer missed WIDE OPEN WRs due to Plummer mis-reading the defenses. Funny how a game plan looks 'inadequate' when the very players executing the plan are blowing their jobs.

                                Toss in the fact that those that have never set foot on a football field are trying to suggest Shanahan is the one that put the 'wrong plan' together is asinine. :
                                Personally, I think pretty much every player and coach for the Broncos that day let the city down. Shanahan was outcoached. Plummer played terribly. Bailey missed (what might have been) a key interception. Our defense was picked apart. Our offense never got going.

                                You can't honestly pin that entire loss on Plummer. The team was totally unprepared for the Steelers (sound familiar?).


                                This is the biggest load of horse crap yet. How many years did Noll coach Bradshaw, and how many SBs did Noll win without Bradshaw ( 12 & 0)? How many years did Walsh coach Montana and how many SBs did he win without Montana (10-0)? How many SBs did Tom Landry coach Roger Staubach and how many SBs did he win without him (9-0)?


                                Now, how many years did Shanahn coach John Elway (4)? So why is it that so many other coaches don't win without their HoF QB and its never mentioned how THEY never won, hmmm? How many did Johnson win without Aikman, how many has Belicheck won without Brady?
                                How many did Parcells win without a HOF QB? Gruden? Gibbs? Billick? Vermeil? Flores?

                                Coaches are capable of winning the Super Bowl without a HOF QB, ravage. Why is it you believe it's ok to give Shanahan a pass simply because he hasn't had one?

                                HOW MANY Coaches won a SB with Elway BEFORE Shanahan got there? Funny how Elway never went to the SB when Shanahan wasn't either the OC or the HC. Funny how no one else was able to take Elway and the Broncos TO the SB or win it, without Shanahan being a part of it. Funny how Steve Young never won a SB until SHanahan was part of the equation.

                                Yet you want to ignore that. You want to ignore the fact that no one else won while coaching Shanahan.. yet it was only Elway that made Shanahan look good. Funny that the only coach to win Multible SBs without having a SINGLE HoF QB... was Joe Gibbs. Shanahan has gone to the playoffs more times than any other coach in HISTORY following the retirement of such talent behind center, and yet YOU (the mastermind of game plans) are saying that HE is the one that isn't "accomplishing" anything. Riiiiiiiiiight
                                Again, ravage, and as pointed out to you repeatedly, it's a double-edged sword you're playing. People's biggest argument against Shanahan is that he can't win the big one without Elway. Do you honestly think that, between '96-'98, we would have been as successful without Elway? I sure don't. All you're doing is proving that Shanahan can't win the big one without Elway, and if that's the case, then what good is he, especially when I've given you names of several other HC's that have won the Super Bowl (in some cases more than once) without a HOF QB?
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