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Interesting Comparison Between Pittsburgh's Bill Cowher and Mike Shanahan!

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  • MindField
    replied
    Originally posted by Cugel View Post
    I'm not going to waste a lot of time refuting this nonsense. Far from being "on the verge of being exposed as an over-rated CB after what was a promising Rookie year" Darrent Williams was about the 7th best CB in football. That's not my opinion. That's the result from Football Outsiders statistical ranking system, which rated the Broncos #1 in the NFL against opponents #1 WR (generally covered by Champ Bailey) and #7 against opponents #2 WR (generally covered by Darrent Williams except when Williams was hurt and then by Foxworth).

    Combined, that meant that the Broncos were tops in the NFL against opponents #1 and #2 WRs in 2006. http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/teameff2006.php

    As for Foxworth he is likely to walk after his rookie contract is up and some team will certainly give him a huge contract to come and be their #1 CB, unless the Broncos manage to re-sign him first. He's starter quality as he's proven every time he's been called on to start. And the stats reflect that too. He's not as good as Dre Bly who is a consistent pro-bowl caliber CB, but he's plenty good. As for Paymah, my only point about him is that he's still on the team, and that even if he's cut it can't be considered a terrible job of drafting since he was only a late 3rd round pick.

    As for Scheffler, how do you like him NOW after last night's performance?!
    He's going to be an outstanding pass-catching TE in this league if he can stay healthy. Just like he proved against the Steelers, he creates mis-matches all over the field and has good speed and great hands. Overall he's a success.

    Brandon Marshall is a 4th round draft pick who is starting at WR, (now #1 in the absence of Javon). That's a HUGE success by any measure.

    As for Moss, Crowder and Marcus Thomas they are getting visibly better by the game. Crowder certainly made the play of the game scooping up that fumble caused by Dumervil and scoring a TD. Moss made some nice plays and Marcus Thomas actually got some pressure up the middle.

    I said before the season that Crowder will be starting over John Engleberger before season's end and I stand by that prediction.

    Dumervil is already the best Broncos DL they've had since Trevor Pryce in 2000. Without his sack and forced fumble, the Broncos would have lost against Pittsburgh. He's now getting regular double-teams and will a LOT more after teams watch films of that play.

    Marcus Thomas is already starting, so that's about as immediate a success story as you can ever have for a 4th round DT in this league! Normally DTs don't start or excel if the DO start in their rookie year.

    Thomas is clearly a steal, which is not terribly surprising. He would have been a top 10-15 pick of the draft and could possibly have been the 1st DT taken in the entire draft if he hadn't gotten thrown off the Gators for smoking weed. He has HUGE talent (which anybody would know if they saw any of the games he played in last year for the Gators -- he just totally dominated while he was there and might well have been taken before Amobi Okoye if he'd played a full season the way he played during the brief time he was there) and he will only get better with more experience. He might well prove to be the best DT taken in the 2007 draft and will certainly be a success unless he just starts smoking pot again.
    WOW! It sounds like we have a budding Dynasty around here; thanks for clueing me in

    Now all we need is a new RB, and enire new set of LB's and probably a replacement for Brandon "Turn to your head to the left, please" Marshall
    after Roger Goodell gets tired of his act.....it's impressive that a kid that missed out on a big-time scholarship because he was a knucklehead off the field, several years later, still has not apparently learned his leasson, and now HBO's Real Sports is about to alledge Marshall was the intended target for Darrent Williams killers, provoking gang-members at the New Years Eve party last year, and went looking for him after hours, and found Darrent Williams.

    Tell me, how do you think that will play out in the Broncos locker room?

    Yeah, that Brandon Marshall, he's a gem.

    Not to mention the fact Javon Walker's post surgery knee looks alot like Terrell Davis' post surgery knee....first it was a little swelling that will have him miss a few practices, then a few games, to follow-up surgery and missing six weeks to what very well could be the rest of the season.

    Hey, I hope your right. I hope they do develop, but your counting your proverbial chickens a little too soon, IMO.
    Last edited by MindField; 10-22-2007, 09:22 PM.

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  • MindField
    replied
    Originally posted by stnzed View Post
    Tongue in cheek? Is that like when Mojo asked you the question that prompted your "I'm so great" speech....I mean, that question had to be tongue in cheek, didn't it?.....He didn't really want to know how you became MindField, did he?


    Read post # 53 to see why I feel compelled to react the degree I did....Just read it again.....
    What I was having was an open discussiion with MOJO, who I seem to agree with more than the other posters around here, and giving him a little background, and he told me some about him....that's all it was.

    Too wordy for your taste? Sorry, but then it was not intended for you.

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  • stnzed
    replied
    Originally posted by MindField View Post
    Seriously, why would you care about what I post one way or another?

    Why do you feelk compelled to react to the degree you do?

    Serioulsy, get over YOURSELF, and learn the meaning of 'toungue in cheek'

    Tongue in cheek? Is that like when Mojo asked you the question that prompted your "I'm so great" speech....I mean, that question had to be tongue in cheek, didn't it?.....He didn't really want to know how you became MindField, did he?


    Read post # 53 to see why I feel compelled to react the degree I did....Just read it again.....

    Leave a comment:


  • Cugel
    replied
    Originally posted by Jared View Post
    Andy Reid is head coach and Executive Vice President of Football Operations for the Eagles. This makes him the defacto GM, since he has control over the area of making playing personnel decisions.

    Tom Heckert is the Eagles version of Ted Sundquist, although I'd venture that Sundquist has more influence over day to day stiff than Heckert does during the regular season. Heckert is a cap-ologist who handles contract specifics.

    Bill Belichick is also the defacto GM for the Patriots. Although, certainly Pioli and himself are more like co-GM's, he has a veto power within the organizational structure.


    These three are in stark contrast to teams like San Diego, Baltimore, and Green Bay, where the GM's in place clearly wield a lot of power and can override or fire coaches. The best example of that being San Diego, where Norv Turner is expcted to only coach and have very little power in player decisions. Ozzie Newsome in Baltimore is very well known for his GM oves, and Ted Thompson in Green Bay stripped Mike Sherman of his GM duties as as soon as he got hired (from Green Bay, where he saw that the dual duty thing wasn't working).
    Mike Holmgren used to have GM power when he was in Green Bay and when he moved to Seattle. But, after the Seahawks sucked the owner took Holmgren's GM power away and gave it to GM Tim Ruskell who now makes all player personnel decisions.

    Leave a comment:


  • Jared
    replied
    Originally posted by socalorado1 View Post
    Question: How many other HCs in the NFL, are also GMs?


    Andy Reid is head coach and Executive Vice President of Football Operations for the Eagles. This makes him the defacto GM, since he has control over the area of making playing personnel decisions.

    Tom Heckert is the Eagles version of Ted Sundquist, although I'd venture that Sundquist has more influence over day to day stiff than Heckert does during the regular season. Heckert is a cap-ologist who handles contract specifics.

    Bill Belichick is also the defacto GM for the Patriots. Although, certainly Pioli and himself are more like co-GM's, he has a veto power within the organizational structure.


    These three are in stark contrast to teams like San Diego, Baltimore, and Green Bay, where the GM's in place clearly wield a lot of power and can override or fire coaches. The best example of that being San Diego, where Norv Turner is expcted to only coach and have very little power in player decisions. Ozzie Newsome in Baltimore is very well known for his GM oves, and Ted Thompson in Green Bay stripped Mike Sherman of his GM duties as as soon as he got hired (from Green Bay, where he saw that the dual duty thing wasn't working).

    Leave a comment:


  • Cugel
    replied
    Originally posted by MindField View Post
    OK, this post has to be called out for it's inaccuracy.

    Concerning the past three Drafts, I don't think they can at all be considered
    'amazing' on any level.

    2005: Darrent Williams (God rest his soul), was on the verge of being exposed as an over-rated CB after what was a promising Rookie year. His play regressed in '06, and was really not much better against the Colts than Roc Alexander was a few years back when he got torched. Because of Williams' unfortunate death, he has been matyrized here to a certain degree, and his play has been exaggerated for the positive. IMO, he would have been considered a weak-link in our secondary this year. Look no further than our game against Indy in which Dre Bly did not get roasted as an example of just how much of an upgrade Bly is over Williams to our Defense. To me, Williams was really very reminiscent of Mike Croel, who won Rookie of the Year in his first year here in Denver, but by year five, Croel was playing for his career in NFL Europe.

    Dominique Foxworth: I don't know how you can praise the selction of a backup CB coming out of the third round; the NFL is full of them. The Broncos did not think enough of Foxworth to even consider him as a possible replacement as a starter to D Williams, and went and spent big money to secure Dre Bly. Foxworth is an average NFL Corner at best.

    Karl Paymah: Has been keeping one foot on the edge of getting cut from the roster altogether. To me, if he has to play any extended period of time, that is not a good thing. His real contribution by now should be on Special Teams, but he does not stand out there, either.

    2006:

    Cutler: I agree the move to trade up and get Cutler was a great move. I guess in Shanahan's 12 years of drafting at that time, even a blind squirrel finds an acorn every now and then...for Shanahan, that makes two out of sixty-something selections during his tenure when you add in the selection of Terrell Davis back in '95 (although long-time Broncos fans know that was a Gary Kubiak find).

    Scheffler: Hard to call a guy who can't get on the field a great pick. The reality is, Scheffler has shown flashes, or at least he did last year, but has yet to show the toughness or the development of a player you can count on, as you seem to be. He should have been over his foot injury in August...where is he in the gameplan?

    Dumervil: Has been everything you could have hoped for and more...except that my preference, Alabama/Chicago's Mark Anderson, was the better prospect. At best Dumervil is a very good third down rush DE; he is still never going to be what you want in a starting DE...but he currently starts for us.
    That's not a positive.

    Brandon Marshall: He just oozes potential...but he also has a disturbing knucklehead quality to him as well...I mean, we all seem to be buying into the 'Baby TO' concept, but the truth is, Marshall could just as easily be the next Travis Henry....and if you look at the numbers, he hasn't been spectacular yet. There is reason to be enthusiastic about Marshall, but can we get a little perspective here and have him actually earn it with his play on the field?

    2007: I think here you are simply confusing players that you like and approved the drafting of, with being productive Draft choices, because collectively, Moss, Crowder and Thomas have one sack between them, and a fluke INT in five games....and I will still say, Anthony Spencer has shown me more in Dallas than Moss has here, and Tim Crowder still basically does nothing on game days, as was his MO at Texas...seems some things are reluctant to change.

    So hold your proverbial horses, because while Foxworth, Scheffler, Dumervil, Marshall, Moss, Crowder and Thomas look good on paper, it's only due to the compete failures of the previous several Drafts conducted under the Shanahan regime.
    Their eventual success, or failure, will be the real determination of recent Draft(s) results...but you seem to have already deposited them all into the 'sure thing' account, which they certainly are not.
    I'm not going to waste a lot of time refuting this nonsense. Far from being "on the verge of being exposed as an over-rated CB after what was a promising Rookie year" Darrent Williams was about the 7th best CB in football. That's not my opinion. That's the result from Football Outsiders statistical ranking system, which rated the Broncos #1 in the NFL against opponents #1 WR (generally covered by Champ Bailey) and #7 against opponents #2 WR (generally covered by Darrent Williams except when Williams was hurt and then by Foxworth).

    Combined, that meant that the Broncos were tops in the NFL against opponents #1 and #2 WRs in 2006. http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/teameff2006.php

    DEN vs. #1 WR: rating: -36.9% rank: 1 vs. #2 WR rating: -16.3% Rank: 7
    As for Foxworth he is likely to walk after his rookie contract is up and some team will certainly give him a huge contract to come and be their #1 CB, unless the Broncos manage to re-sign him first. He's starter quality as he's proven every time he's been called on to start. And the stats reflect that too. He's not as good as Dre Bly who is a consistent pro-bowl caliber CB, but he's plenty good. As for Paymah, my only point about him is that he's still on the team, and that even if he's cut it can't be considered a terrible job of drafting since he was only a late 3rd round pick.

    As for Scheffler, how do you like him NOW after last night's performance?!
    He's going to be an outstanding pass-catching TE in this league if he can stay healthy. Just like he proved against the Steelers, he creates mis-matches all over the field and has good speed and great hands. Overall he's a success.

    Brandon Marshall is a 4th round draft pick who is starting at WR, (now #1 in the absence of Javon). That's a HUGE success by any measure.

    As for Moss, Crowder and Marcus Thomas they are getting visibly better by the game. Crowder certainly made the play of the game scooping up that fumble caused by Dumervil and scoring a TD. Moss made some nice plays and Marcus Thomas actually got some pressure up the middle.

    I said before the season that Crowder will be starting over John Engleberger before season's end and I stand by that prediction.

    Dumervil is already the best Broncos DL they've had since Trevor Pryce in 2000. Without his sack and forced fumble, the Broncos would have lost against Pittsburgh. He's now getting regular double-teams and will a LOT more after teams watch films of that play.

    Marcus Thomas is already starting, so that's about as immediate a success story as you can ever have for a 4th round DT in this league! Normally DTs don't start or excel if the DO start in their rookie year.

    Thomas is clearly a steal, which is not terribly surprising. He would have been a top 10-15 pick of the draft and could possibly have been the 1st DT taken in the entire draft if he hadn't gotten thrown off the Gators for smoking weed. He has HUGE talent (which anybody would know if they saw any of the games he played in last year for the Gators -- he just totally dominated while he was there and might well have been taken before Amobi Okoye if he'd played a full season the way he played during the brief time he was there) and he will only get better with more experience. He might well prove to be the best DT taken in the 2007 draft and will certainly be a success unless he just starts smoking pot again.
    Last edited by Cugel; 10-22-2007, 04:54 PM.

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  • Cugel
    replied
    Originally posted by MindField View Post
    *Shrugs*

    I just know (and you do too) that it is.

    I have posted here before every Draft, made players reviews here for the last five seasons....it's all there, Bro.

    I am right alot more than any of you care to admit, mostly because you just hate to hear me say it.

    But deep down inside, most of you know I am usually dead on...

    Which must be the reason I have several CP's from you, Stnzed, right?
    I too have been a Broncos fan since 1977, so you don't get any props for that. Plus I didn't take 30 lines to talk about how great I am either.
    Talking about how "right" you are just doesn't prove a damn thing.

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  • columbiaskinny
    replied
    I'm just stoked that Shanny will be here 3 more years to piss everyone off . . .

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  • MindField
    replied
    Originally posted by stnzed View Post
    I give you a lot of cp's, MindField, I also defend you when I agree with you.

    ....Maybe that's just because I know how right you always are....Or maybe it's only when you finally get something right....Maybe it's somewhere in between.

    Does that mean I'm not nauseated by you're constant need to pat yourself on the back?

    Seriously, get over yourself, cause you're sure as hell not right as often as your ego tells you that you are....

    Seriously, why would you care about what I post one way or another?

    Why do you feelk compelled to react to the degree you do?

    Serioulsy, get over YOURSELF, and learn the meaning of 'toungue in cheek'

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  • stnzed
    replied
    Originally posted by MindField View Post
    *Shrugs*

    I just know (and you do too) that it is.

    I have posted here before every Draft, made players reviews here for the last five seasons....it's all there, Bro.

    I am right alot more than any of you care to admit, mostly because you just hate to hear me say it.

    But deep down inside, most of you know I am usually dead on...

    Which must be the reason I have several CP's from you, Stnzed, right?

    I give you a lot of cp's, MindField, I also defend you when I agree with you.

    ....Maybe that's just because I know how right you always are....Or maybe it's only when you finally get something right....Maybe it's somewhere in between.

    Does that mean I'm not nauseated by you're constant need to pat yourself on the back?

    Seriously, get over yourself, cause you're sure as hell not right as often as your ego tells you that you are....

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  • MindField
    replied
    Originally posted by stnzed View Post
    His question was: How'd you get to be so smart?


    Your story is no different than anyone elses....(Except you're a lot more in love with your own opinion).....So how'd your opinion get to be so much smarter than ours?
    *Shrugs*

    I just know (and you do too) that it is.

    I have posted here before every Draft, made players reviews here for the last five seasons....it's all there, Bro.

    I am right alot more than any of you care to admit, mostly because you just hate to hear me say it.

    But deep down inside, most of you know I am usually dead on...

    Which must be the reason I have several CP's from you, Stnzed, right?

    Leave a comment:


  • stnzed
    replied
    Originally posted by MindField View Post
    I have watched the Broncos for over 30 years now. Through that time, I spent my youth watching the Broncos evolve from an NFL doormat, to the magical 1977 'Orange Crush' season that was not unlike what you are seeing now with the Colorado Rockies...and I got my heart broken for the first time in SB XII when the Dallas Cowboys thumped them 27-10 (and DAMN IT!!, 30 years later, I STILL say that Butch Johnson dropped that TD pass!!...what a BS call!!).

    In my adolescence, I watched the infancy of what would become a Legendary NFL QB in John Elway, and watched the Broncos take another step up the ladder, only to see them get their brains beat in in Super Bowls when they were completely outclassed and undermanned. I still remember puking at 3am in the morning while stationed in Germany in a drunken stuper as my Super Bowl dreams turned to a nightmare in one incredibly bad second Qtr. The Washington Redskins scored SIX, count 'em, SIX TD's in one QTR, and my 10-0 Bronco lead turned to a 10-42 deficit in about 30 minutes. That was only topped by the extreme embarassment of the 55-10 ass whoppin the SF 49ers (still the greatest NFL team I ever saw assembled) put on them two years later....the only thing that saved me that year was watching my alma matter, UNLV (still the single greatest NCAA BB team ever assembled, BTW), beat the living daylights out of Duke 103-73 for the Nat'l Championship...but I got sidetracked here...

    Then, finally, in my adulthood when the Broncos finally broke through and won it all. I have basically seen it all from the Broncos, the Good, the Bad and the Ugly, and I know what I see when I see it. To me, it's almost a constant revolving case of Deja' vu, when it's good or bad. They seem to be this incredibly large collection of repeating events.

    As far as the Draft stuff goes, I was a nerdy kid that used to read the seven week, pre-Draft info that the Sporting News used to publish, long before the Mel Kiper's, or Scout's Inc. or whatever existed...I remember feeling good about myself when a player I projected to the Broncos as a good second round pick in 1979(?), Billy Ard, a 6'3"-300lb OG from Virginia, was selected by Bill Parcells and the NY Giants, and became a mainstay on that Giant O-line for several years, including SB XXII against the Broncos themselves.

    So by now, I have seen it all, and I have neither the time or desire to make excuses for the Broncos. I call 'em as I see 'em, and I am not always right....but I am right more often than I am wrong, fortunately or unfortunately, however you choose to see it. I have no allegiance or emotional attachment to individual players or coaches. They get paid incredible amounts of money to do what alot of us would do for free, so to me, the bottom line is win, or if you don't, hit the road jack.

    As far as Mike Shanahan goes, I have mixed feelings. I have incredible respect for what he has accomplished here, regardless of how his tenure in Denver ends. When he won those Super Bowls, he accomplished what alot of people thought was impossible, especially considering the fact we were a four-time SB loser, and all of the psycological stuff that they had to overcome, etc...but since that time, I have lost alot respect for both the Man and the Coach. I think Shanahan is a power-hungry control freak. I think he has serious judgement issues with regard to player personnel, so bad in fact that it ultimately may be the single reason the Broncos never win another Super Bowl while he is in charge...he is that questionable with is evaluations and Draft selections. To me, that more than anything is his Achillies Heel. Let's just say he's no Jimmy Johnson when it comes to player evaluation.

    Shanahan has also had some very disturbing personal fallouts to people he was once very close to, not the least of which includes John Elway himself (it is no secret in Denver that their relatioinship has cooled dramatically over the years). I was also very disappointed in his handling of the firing of David and Alex Gibbs. He handled both very poorly, and showed a very important part of the success of the Denver Broncos, and his son, David, damn little respect, IMO. To me, you just don't treat people that important to your success that way, period. His relationship with Ray Rhodes also deteriorated in record time for a couple of coaches that worked together with the SF 49ers and won a SB, especially when you considering how respected, League wide, Ray Rhodes was.....the three Defensive Coordinators he has fired since 2001 as fall guys....you get the picture.

    Bottom line: I don't advocate the firing of Mike Shanahan. I know enough to know it's real easy to say 'Fire Him'!...because if you do that, you better have a better answer, but I am not sure there is one, including Bill Cowher.

    For me, Shanahan's Legacy is tied to Jay Cutler. He will get another four years or so to build a Super Bowl calibur team and try to win another Title. Since Shanahan has compete control over football operations here in Denver, it is fair to say all scrutinizing eyes are set squarely on him.

    It will be interesting to see how it all pans out.

    His question was: How'd you get to be so smart?


    Your story is no different than anyone elses....(Except you're a lot more in love with your own opinion).....So how'd your opinion get to be so much smarter than ours?

    Leave a comment:


  • MindField
    replied
    Originally posted by Ravage!!! View Post
    Its funny to read YOU type out about gameplans, when you don't have a friggin' clue what a game plan is about or how to make one up.

    I watched Ron Jawarski break down the game film of that AFC Championship game (at which he does better than/as good as anyone else in the NFL)...and watched him point out time and time again how Plummer missed WIDE OPEN WRs due to Plummer mis-reading the defenses. Funny how a game plan looks 'inadequate' when the very players executing the plan are blowing their jobs.

    Toss in the fact that those that have never set foot on a football field are trying to suggest Shanahan is the one that put the 'wrong plan' together is asinine.



    This is the biggest load of horse crap yet. How many years did Noll coach Bradshaw, and how many SBs did Noll win without Bradshaw ( 12 & 0)? How many years did Walsh coach Montana and how many SBs did he win without Montana (10-0)? How many SBs did Tom Landry coach Roger Staubach and how many SBs did he win without him (9-0)?

    Now, how many years did Shanahn coach John Elway (4)? So why is it that so many other coaches don't win without their HoF QB and its never mentioned how THEY never won, hmmm? How many did Johnson win without Aikman, how many has Belicheck won without Brady?

    HOW MANY Coaches won a SB with Elway BEFORE Shanahan got there? Funny how Elway never went to the SB when Shanahan wasn't either the OC or the HC. Funny how no one else was able to take Elway and the Broncos TO the SB or win it, without Shanahan being a part of it. Funny how Steve Young never won a SB until SHanahan was part of the equation.

    Yet you want to ignore that. You want to ignore the fact that no one else won while coaching Shanahan.. yet it was only Elway that made Shanahan look good. Funny that the only coach to win Multible SBs without having a SINGLE HoF QB... was Joe Gibbs. Shanahan has gone to the playoffs more times than any other coach in HISTORY following the retirement of such talent behind center, and yet YOU (the mastermind of game plans) are saying that HE is the one that isn't "accomplishing" anything. Riiiiiiiiiight


    I know, I know, Ravage, Shanahan is the greatest ever....your opinion(s) mean exactly ZERO to me. I have watched the Broncos for a long time, I know what I see, and some myopic poster on a fan message board is not going to change my mind. Shanahan is not an elite HC in this League, and his teams have fatal flaws that he never seems to be able to correct. That's really all there is to say, because despite your empassioned pleas here, Shanahan just does not have the wins or results to back you up, period.
    Last edited by MindField; 10-18-2007, 06:54 PM.

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  • mojo0730
    replied
    Originally posted by Ravage!!! View Post
    I watched Ron Jawarski break down the game film of that AFC Championship game (at which he does better than/as good as anyone else in the NFL)...and watched him point out time and time again how Plummer missed WIDE OPEN WRs due to Plummer mis-reading the defenses. Funny how a game plan looks 'inadequate' when the very players executing the plan are blowing their jobs.

    Toss in the fact that those that have never set foot on a football field are trying to suggest Shanahan is the one that put the 'wrong plan' together is asinine. :
    Personally, I think pretty much every player and coach for the Broncos that day let the city down. Shanahan was outcoached. Plummer played terribly. Bailey missed (what might have been) a key interception. Our defense was picked apart. Our offense never got going.

    You can't honestly pin that entire loss on Plummer. The team was totally unprepared for the Steelers (sound familiar?).


    This is the biggest load of horse crap yet. How many years did Noll coach Bradshaw, and how many SBs did Noll win without Bradshaw ( 12 & 0)? How many years did Walsh coach Montana and how many SBs did he win without Montana (10-0)? How many SBs did Tom Landry coach Roger Staubach and how many SBs did he win without him (9-0)?


    Now, how many years did Shanahn coach John Elway (4)? So why is it that so many other coaches don't win without their HoF QB and its never mentioned how THEY never won, hmmm? How many did Johnson win without Aikman, how many has Belicheck won without Brady?
    How many did Parcells win without a HOF QB? Gruden? Gibbs? Billick? Vermeil? Flores?

    Coaches are capable of winning the Super Bowl without a HOF QB, ravage. Why is it you believe it's ok to give Shanahan a pass simply because he hasn't had one?

    HOW MANY Coaches won a SB with Elway BEFORE Shanahan got there? Funny how Elway never went to the SB when Shanahan wasn't either the OC or the HC. Funny how no one else was able to take Elway and the Broncos TO the SB or win it, without Shanahan being a part of it. Funny how Steve Young never won a SB until SHanahan was part of the equation.

    Yet you want to ignore that. You want to ignore the fact that no one else won while coaching Shanahan.. yet it was only Elway that made Shanahan look good. Funny that the only coach to win Multible SBs without having a SINGLE HoF QB... was Joe Gibbs. Shanahan has gone to the playoffs more times than any other coach in HISTORY following the retirement of such talent behind center, and yet YOU (the mastermind of game plans) are saying that HE is the one that isn't "accomplishing" anything. Riiiiiiiiiight
    Again, ravage, and as pointed out to you repeatedly, it's a double-edged sword you're playing. People's biggest argument against Shanahan is that he can't win the big one without Elway. Do you honestly think that, between '96-'98, we would have been as successful without Elway? I sure don't. All you're doing is proving that Shanahan can't win the big one without Elway, and if that's the case, then what good is he, especially when I've given you names of several other HC's that have won the Super Bowl (in some cases more than once) without a HOF QB?

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  • Ravage!!!
    replied
    Originally posted by MindField View Post
    ...yeah, in a season (2005) in which EVERYTHING broke perfectly for the Broncos to win it all, and then at home, in a game in which they were favored, Shanahan provided a woefully inadequate gameplan, and watched his team get beat like they always do, by a tougher, more physical team in the underdog Steelers.
    Its funny to read YOU type out about gameplans, when you don't have a friggin' clue what a game plan is about or how to make one up.

    I watched Ron Jawarski break down the game film of that AFC Championship game (at which he does better than/as good as anyone else in the NFL)...and watched him point out time and time again how Plummer missed WIDE OPEN WRs due to Plummer mis-reading the defenses. Funny how a game plan looks 'inadequate' when the very players executing the plan are blowing their jobs.

    Toss in the fact that those that have never set foot on a football field are trying to suggest Shanahan is the one that put the 'wrong plan' together is asinine.

    Until he wins again big, sans Elway, that is about to what Shanahan can be compared, regardless of what his apologists suggest.
    This is the biggest load of horse crap yet. How many years did Noll coach Bradshaw, and how many SBs did Noll win without Bradshaw ( 12 & 0)? How many years did Walsh coach Montana and how many SBs did he win without Montana (10-0)? How many SBs did Tom Landry coach Roger Staubach and how many SBs did he win without him (9-0)?

    Now, how many years did Shanahn coach John Elway (4)? So why is it that so many other coaches don't win without their HoF QB and its never mentioned how THEY never won, hmmm? How many did Johnson win without Aikman, how many has Belicheck won without Brady?

    HOW MANY Coaches won a SB with Elway BEFORE Shanahan got there? Funny how Elway never went to the SB when Shanahan wasn't either the OC or the HC. Funny how no one else was able to take Elway and the Broncos TO the SB or win it, without Shanahan being a part of it. Funny how Steve Young never won a SB until SHanahan was part of the equation.

    Yet you want to ignore that. You want to ignore the fact that no one else won while coaching Shanahan.. yet it was only Elway that made Shanahan look good. Funny that the only coach to win Multible SBs without having a SINGLE HoF QB... was Joe Gibbs. Shanahan has gone to the playoffs more times than any other coach in HISTORY following the retirement of such talent behind center, and yet YOU (the mastermind of game plans) are saying that HE is the one that isn't "accomplishing" anything. Riiiiiiiiiight

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