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  • Why So Protective Of Bates?

    If we don't have the necessary players, especially the 2 DTs up front needed to fill gaps and require multiple blockers, to fulfill the Bates' scheme, wouldn't it still be his responsibility to find those necessary players?

    Shouldn't he be to blame for allowing the wrong players to play in his scheme rather than making it a top priority to find the right players?

    There were quality big name defensive players like Shaun Rogers, Kris Jenkins, and Mathias Kiwanuka on the trading block. Either one of these players would have been a significant boost in stopping the run.

    Shouldn't making a deal for one of the following top notch players have been the most necessitized issue for our defensive coach instead of putting in average players, for example the DT situation where Sam Adams/Amon Gordon/Alvin McKinley/Marcus Thomas only occupy one block and even then get pushed back 5 yards?

    Bates should have known what type of players would be needed for his OWN scheme and made a continuous effort to match that criteria, so in the end would it not be a failure on his part as a coach?
    Go Selvin!
    Shake and Bake All Day Long!


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  • #2
    Originally posted by dodgehunter13 View Post
    If we don't have the necessary players, especially the 2 DTs up front needed to fill gaps and require multiple blockers, to fulfill the Bates' scheme, wouldn't it still be his responsibility to find those necessary players?

    Shouldn't he be to blame for allowing the wrong players to play in his scheme rather than making it a top priority to find the right players?

    There were quality big name defensive players like Shaun Rogers, Kris Jenkins, and Mathias Kiwanuka on the trading block. Either one of these players would have been a significant boost in stopping the run.

    Shouldn't making a deal for one of the following top notch players have been the most necessitized issue for our defensive coach instead of putting in average players, for example the DT situation where Sam Adams/Amon Gordon/Alvin McKinley/Marcus Thomas only occupy one block and even then get pushed back 5 yards?

    Bates should have known what type of players would be needed for his OWN scheme and made a continuous effort to match that criteria, so in the end would it not be a failure on his part as a coach?
    You want to take this one Ravage or should I? Me? Got it.

    [edit]: Good Lord! Bates is only in his first year with the Broncos! What do you want?!

    Just because the greatest players are in FA doesn't mean the Broncos have the cap space to acquire them. I'm sure Bates knows what types of players work best in his scheme but getting them is another problem altogether. Once you do get all the pieces together you still have to get them to play together. There's been a 70% turnover in the Broncos players from last year. I'll assume that the number of new defensive faces is roughly the same. Even if 50% of the Broncos defense is new faces I'd say the Broncos have done an outstanding job of getting players that Bates needs. You can't just drop everyone on the defense and get everyone you want. It'll probably take a couple of years before Bates has the exact composition of players he would like.


    If you think the Broncos and Bates can do all of that in one offseason, I'll refer you back to Madden 20xx of your favorite gaming system, because you aren't living in the reality the rest of us are.
    Last edited by TheGlue Factory; 10-18-2007, 01:16 PM.

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    • #3
      Drafted 1 DT, brought in several free agents, even traded for one, to me it looks like they tried to get the best players available to fit the scheme.

      Pro-bowl DT's are not a dime-a-dozen, you know. They are in pretty high demand. 31 teams besides the Broncos are also competing for their services. And, as with other areas of need that have been addressed, I'm sure this area will continue to be addressed.

      Edited to add: TheGlue Factory beat me to it.
      Last edited by PowderAddict; 10-18-2007, 01:11 PM.

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      • #4
        Since when do defensive coordinators handle personnel acquisitions? Bates can only request. It's up to Shanahan and Sundquist to make the decisions and get the players they can get. They can't always get what they want. They tried to get Kerney, but he chose Seattle. How is that Bates' fault? Warren refused to adapt to the new scheme. How is that Bates' fault? Kennedy apparently proved that he just sucks at stopping the run. How is that Bates' fault?
        My Opinion isn’t determined by what the Popular Opinion is. Sometimes I agree with the Majority, Sometimes I Don’t. If My Opinion is Different than Yours, I have to Ask One Question:
        You Mad Bro?
        Don’t Be A Mean Girl

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        • #5
          Originally posted by TheGlue Factory View Post
          You want to take this one Ravage or should I? Me? Got it.

          Just because the greatest players are in FA doesn't mean the Broncos have the cap space to acquire them. I'm sure Bates knows what types of players work best in his scheme but getting them is another problem altogether. Once you do get all the pieces together you still have to get them to play together. There's been a 70% turnover in the Broncos players from last year. I'll assume that the number of new defensive faces is roughly the same. Even if 50% of the Broncos defense is new faces I'd say the Broncos have done an outstanding job of getting players that Bates needs. You can't just drop everyone on the defense and get everyone you want. It'll probably take a couple of years before Bates has the exact composition of players he would like.

          If you think the Broncos and Bates can do all of that in one offseason, I'll refer you back to Madden 20xx of your favorite gaming system, because you aren't living in the reality the rest of us are.
          I agree but the Broncos do have a pretty decent cap space number as of now and after cutting a couple players that are not getting the job done, Bates would have the opportunity to get that last big name player in a Broncos uniform.

          The coaching staff did do an outstanding job of getting players that Bates needs but it all starts up front on the defensive side of the ball, and that being one of the weakest links, is leaving the rest of our defense out to dry.
          Go Selvin!
          Shake and Bake All Day Long!


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          • #6
            Originally posted by broncolee View Post
            Since when do defensive coordinators handle personnel acquisitions? Bates can only request. It's up to Shanahan and Sundquist to make the decisions and get the players they can get. They can't always get what they want. They tried to get Kerney, but he chose Seattle. How is that Bates' fault? Warren refused to adapt to the new scheme. How is that Bates' fault? Kennedy apparently proved that he just sucks at stopping the run. How is that Bates' fault?
            Since the defensive coordinator knows what is best for the defense, it is up to him to persuade his superiors to do what is needed.
            Go Selvin!
            Shake and Bake All Day Long!


            sigpic

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            • #7
              How many superbowls has Bates won as a D co-ord.

              What is his record against the run ?

              Go ahead......take this one.

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              • #8
                I can only speak for myself.

                But I for 1 was very happy to see Larry Coyer go.

                I will give the new guy "Bates" a chance.Im not going anywhere I have my entire life to be a Bronco fan.

                No im not a protective type fan.I speak out when I see something I dont like or a player that I think is not doing a good job.I can understand why some people are not happy with Bates as well.If they choose to bash him I atleast hope when I click on the thread it has some intelligent insight on how to fix the problem that they are complaining about.Sadly very few do.

                I think the "Madden effect" clouds alot of fans judgements about the team.If it is not you sure cant tell by the post that they write.
                Last edited by LarryDean; 10-18-2007, 01:33 PM.
                :logo: :logo: :logo: :logo: :logo:

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by dodgehunter13 View Post
                  I agree but the Broncos do have a pretty decent cap space number as of now and after cutting a couple players that are not getting the job done, Bates would have the opportunity to get that last big name player in a Broncos uniform.
                  So the many new faces aren't enough? You want to create even more chaos by bringing in more? I'm telling you that one of the problems is that the defense is not only learning a new scheme but also learning how to play with each other. There's only so much change people can handle and still perform at a high level. I think the Broncos may have exceeded that level with the current crop of players. Creating more chaos by bringing in more players would most likely only cause the defense to get worse (possibly much worse) before it gets any better.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Superchop7 View Post
                    How many superbowls has Bates won as a D co-ord.

                    What is his record against the run ?

                    Go ahead......take this one.
                    BAsed on the thread you started about Bates' fan club, I refuse to interact with you. I don't need to lose any more IQ points today, thank you.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by dodgehunter13 View Post
                      Since the defensive coordinator knows what is best for the defense, it is up to him to persuade his superiors to do what is needed.
                      You do realize that Shanahan has other priorities besides the defense, don't you? Bates isn't going to get everything he wants because Shanahan has to take other things into consideration as well. Maybe we could have gotten Kerney if we had passed on either Henry or Graham in order to be able to offer more money to Kerney. Maybe Shanahan and Sundquist weren't willing to do that because they didn't think Kerney was worth more than what they offered and weren't willing to hinder their chances of getting both Graham and Henry. The bottom line is, Bates isn't in charge of player acquisitions. He's not going to get everything he asks for. Sometimes he's going to have to settle for what he can get and that appears to be exactly what happened in regards to some positions.
                      My Opinion isn’t determined by what the Popular Opinion is. Sometimes I agree with the Majority, Sometimes I Don’t. If My Opinion is Different than Yours, I have to Ask One Question:
                      You Mad Bro?
                      Don’t Be A Mean Girl

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by dodgehunter13 View Post
                        I agree but the Broncos do have a pretty decent cap space number as of now and after cutting a couple players that are not getting the job done, Bates would have the opportunity to get that last big name player in a Broncos uniform.
                        Who available would you like them to go after? Who would you like to be cut?

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                        • #13
                          I don't think the problem is getting the right people. The problem is that the people we have are not playing the scheme. They're mis-reading, overpersuing, not filling gaps, filling the wrong gaps, and just playing bad. Maybe the coaching haven't done enough to teach them the scheme, or maybe the players are just not getting it. Either way, I think it's a problem of the players needing to learn there positions, and play better, and we shouldn't be trying to throw Bates under a bus when he's only been here for 5 games. Geez, try a little patience please.

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