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  • delaranta
    replied
    I agree that they played well this week, but overall I don't feel like they have been a top ten line. They run the ball well, but pass protection has been a problem. You can offset that with three step drops and play action, but a lot of Cutler's success this year has come from his athletic ability. He seems to be very proficient at avoiding the rush while still looking to throw downfield. He also doesn't get rattled when he is under pressure. Also, don't forget that Shanahan had two weeks to break down the Steelers defense and exploit their weaknesses.

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  • DiehardinAlaska
    replied
    Didn't look average in pass protection

    Originally posted by delaranta View Post
    Personally, I think this offense should be averaging 30 pts a game, but with Nalen and the left guard (I sat here for five minutes and couldn't remember his name) out for the year, and Lepsis looking like he's not all the way back from the ACL he suffered last year, the o-line is average.
    We haven't had a game dominated by our run offense in the past few weeks. But that's hard to do when you're getting steamrolled. But I'm not sure I'd agree just yet that our oline is just average. You don't have a green QB complete 75% of his passes and remarkably a TON of third and long situations without some darn good protection. We'll have to see how the whole season plays out before we give final grades but I'd say the oline looked pretty good against a TOUGH 3-4 defense that usually beats the tar out of us.

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  • Darth Tyger
    replied
    Originally posted by Cutler2007 View Post
    So, we can agree that most teams would prefer to not blitz, but rather get pressure with their front four, correct?

    Can we also agree that this means that blitzing is not what most Defensive coordinators would like to rely on to get said pressure?

    Can we also agree that for every man you blitz, you are taking away a guy in coverage and that makes you more susceptible to big plays?

    If you agree with all three of these statements, you and Bates agree in principle on the same things on what you want from your defense.

    I'm going to let it go at that, do not feel like arguing the obvious and making the statement that Blitzing is something that coaches have said they do not like to do because it puts far to much pressure on coverages is obvious.
    AHA!!!!!

    1) Yes, I agree

    2) Yes, I agree....but that's like saying that a driver wants the car to start when he turns the keys.

    3) NO, I do not agree here. My own defensive coaching philosophy is slightly different....and I stand by it.

    I will explain, since you've been in such good humor and patient:

    There are really only two ways to stop an offense - football speaking that is. Well, three, actually.

    1) No matter what, you have to be able to stop the run enough to consistently force third downs. That's generally a read-and-reaction by one of the LB's.

    2) You can either cover the receivers and TE's "tightly", or hope that you are, what is commonly referred to in this league as "tight coverage"......or

    3) You can disrupt the QB's timing on the play by getting a quick rush on him. Considering the acute lack of DL in the NFL that can do that consistently....you blitz. Not all the time, but enough to screw up the QB's timing.

    I prefer option 3. I have observed, as a fan and a coach, I might add, that turnovers generally result when the QB is "out of rhythm" or "out of synch".

    For the record, also, Brady and Manning are "rhythm QB's". If they get into THEIR offensive rhythm, not the best CB in the game can cover longer than 4 seconds. That's just the facts as I've observed them. Manning and Brady BOTH look a little lost and helpless once you start pounding on them.

    Of course, if I were either of them, I'd be saying stuff to the camera to get those guys from hitting me too.

    These are the facts, my good man:

    1) You can't double-cover everyone.

    2) QB's will throw to receivers in single coverage nearly everytime.

    3) Therefore there IS NO SUCH THING as "good coverage" without some pressure on the QB, and the paucity of true DL in the NFL prevents that.

    AND THAT, Loyal Fan, is why all defenses but a few blitz in this league.

    Oh, except for Jim Bates, that is.....

    (hehehehehe.....couldn't resist...)

    Leave a comment:


  • H. Rockefeller
    replied
    Originally posted by Darth Tyger View Post
    And you are a psychic or psychiatrist for who did you say???

    Go bag some more groceries, Kurt, not my fault your sense of humor is stuck at zero.

    There was humor in your posts? Hmm....nope, still not seeing it. Your schtick is called snark, and it only works when you know what you're talking about.

    Go bag groceries, Kurt? Now that's topical!

    Leave a comment:


  • delaranta
    replied
    I don't want to pile on Tyger, but I read somewhere that the general rule for sportswriters is something like pick a side and argue it. The mere fact that you are reading their entire article and forming an opinion, justifies their salary.

    But I do agree with you that the change up in scheme was pretty effective. I thought the Steelers were insane for throwing so much in the first half, but in general, we had 8-9 guys in the box all night and forced Big Ben to throw the ball accurately under pressure.

    Personally, I think this offense should be averaging 30 pts a game, but with Nalen and the left guard (I sat here for five minutes and couldn't remember his name) out for the year, and Lepsis looking like he's not all the way back from the ACL he suffered last year, the o-line is average. Cutler is playing very well all things considered, but he is not playing well enough to carry this team to 10-12 wins and through the playoffs. That is what I think is going to determine the outcome of our season. If he can shorten the learning curve even more, than they have a chance to make a run. Otherwise, its time to look towards next year.

    Leave a comment:


  • Cutler2007
    replied
    So, we can agree that most teams would prefer to not blitz, but rather get pressure with their front four, correct?

    Can we also agree that this means that blitzing is not what most Defensive coordinators would like to rely on to get said pressure?

    Can we also agree that for every man you blitz, you are taking away a guy in coverage and that makes you more susceptible to big plays?

    If you agree with all three of these statements, you and Bates agree in principle on the same things on what you want from your defense.

    I'm going to let it go at that, do not feel like arguing the obvious and making the statement that Blitzing is something that coaches have said they do not like to do because it puts far to much pressure on coverages is obvious.

    Leave a comment:


  • Darth Tyger
    replied
    Originally posted by H. Rockefeller View Post
    You have an unjustified and quite frankly, insane sense of superiority for someone who doesn't have a clue what their talking about.
    And you are a psychic or psychiatrist for who did you say???

    Go bag some more groceries, Kurt, not my fault your sense of humor is stuck at zero.

    Leave a comment:


  • H. Rockefeller
    replied
    Originally posted by Darth Tyger View Post
    To extrapolate from "Shanahan and Bates said it" into "most d co-ordinators say" can only mean one thing. You write speeches for Hillary Clinton....don't you?

    And Now Please Pay Attention For The Last Time Dept: It's entirely fascinating that Shanahan AND Bates (oh me, oh my!!!!) both agree that you "should" pressure with your front four....however you are apparently blind to several realities in the NFL.

    First of all: Only 3-4 true defensive linemen come out of college per year....and that's in good years. If you can't understand that and do the math from there, then visual cognitivity is NOT your main issue. That's about as polite as I can word it...

    You're trying to make art and intelligence through spin and overstating the obvious. OBVIOUSLY everyone wants to be able to pressure the QB with just 4 guys.........OBVIOUSLY there are not enough DL in the NFL to go around FOR EVEN SIX TEAMS to be able to do that.

    What part of this aren't you getting?
    You have an unjustified and quite frankly, insane sense of superiority for someone who doesn't have a clue what their talking about.

    Leave a comment:


  • Darth Tyger
    replied
    A Little Color For The Blind Fan

    Originally posted by Cutler2007 View Post
    I think I heard somewhere that they watch something called "game film". Or do you think it was just lucky that Pitt was in max protect (an offensive blocking scheme that makes sure you have 7 minimum players staying back to block) for almost the entire game against us in the AFCC game in 2005? They KNEW we were going to blitz constantly in that game because our entire D philosophy was to Blitz early and often.



    Really not hard to decipher when they come right out and say it. Go back and listen to Shanny and Bates talk about defense and what it takes to have a top defense. One phrase comes up repeatedly,"you need to be able to pressure the QB with your front four." Feel free to go watch other press conferences of other teams and you will hear the same thing. Teams Blitz when they can't get pressure from their front four, not as a preferred defensive scheme.

    As far as the rest of your original post, I found it to be a redundant rant of rhetoric on how the press sucks because they do not write what you want to hear, which basically was for the most part how Bates' system is, "capola."
    To extrapolate from "Shanahan and Bates said it" into "most d co-ordinators say" can only mean one thing. You write speeches for Hillary Clinton....don't you?

    And Now Please Pay Attention For The Last Time Dept: It's entirely fascinating that Shanahan AND Bates (oh me, oh my!!!!) both agree that you "should" pressure with your front four....however you are apparently blind to several realities in the NFL.

    First of all: Only 3-4 true defensive linemen come out of college per year....and that's in good years. If you can't understand that and do the math from there, then visual cognitivity is NOT your main issue. That's about as polite as I can word it...

    You're trying to make art and intelligence through spin and overstating the obvious. OBVIOUSLY everyone wants to be able to pressure the QB with just 4 guys.........OBVIOUSLY there are not enough DL in the NFL to go around FOR EVEN SIX TEAMS to be able to do that.

    What part of this aren't you getting?

    Leave a comment:


  • Darth Tyger
    replied
    Originally posted by PowderAddict View Post
    You mean like:



    Or like:



    And Jimmy Olsen was a photographer, not a writer
    And here I thought that Peter Parker was the only photographer in fantasyland.

    Good writing, eh? Hehehehehehe.....

    Leave a comment:


  • Cutler2007
    replied
    Secondly. Since when does the offense "know" when the D is blitzing??? Or do you just believe everthing that Peyton Manning says into a camera?
    I think I heard somewhere that they watch something called "game film". Or do you think it was just lucky that Pitt was in max protect (an offensive blocking scheme that makes sure you have 7 players minimum staying back to block) for almost the entire game against us in the AFCC game in 2005? They KNEW we were going to blitz constantly in that game because our entire D philosophy was to Blitz early and often.

    However, I must close in pointing out that your glib "most D co-ordinators agree" comment is just about as ridiculous, unqualified, and outlandish as the crap I read in the Post and News lately. As if you know what "most" D co-ordinators think or say. LOLOLOL!!!
    Really not hard to decipher when they come right out and say it. Go back and listen to Shanny and Bates talk about defense and what it takes to have a top defense. One phrase comes up repeatedly,"you need to be able to pressure the QB with your front four." Feel free to go watch other press conferences of other teams and you will hear the same thing. Teams Blitz when they can't get pressure from their front four, not as a preferred defensive scheme.

    As far as the rest of your original post, I found it to be a redundant rant of rhetoric on how the press sucks because they do not write what you want to hear, which basically was for the most part how Bates' system is, "capola."
    Last edited by Cutler2007; 10-25-2007, 03:13 PM.

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  • PowderAddict
    replied
    Originally posted by Darth Tyger View Post

    Observe: There is ONE THING I know about news writers that is as true as the sun rising in the east....they "think" they are better (than whoever they are speaking to) AND the expert. The common term for this when I was growing up was "Holier-Than-Thou" or "Stuck Up"....take your pick.
    You mean like:

    Originally posted by Darth Tyger View Post
    First of all, stop the propellor on your beanie from spinning so fast. It's apparently interfering with your reception. It's a "Bash Denver Sports Writers" thread....but only obviously so. If you were in my class you'd get a "D-" for overall comprehension. The Bates comment was geared to serve a point, and even illustrated that way beforehand. Hell, I even spaced it out for the dyslexic...
    Or like:

    Originally posted by Darth Tyger View Post
    However, I must close in pointing out that your glib "most D co-ordinators agree" comment is just about as ridiculous, unqualified, and outlandish as the crap I read in the Post and News lately.
    And Jimmy Olsen was a photographer, not a writer

    Leave a comment:


  • Darth Tyger
    replied
    Originally posted by Cutler2007 View Post
    Since this seems to be mostly just another "Bash Bates" thread, I will address that.



    The scheme is not complicated at all, it just requires everyone to do their job. It also has a lot to do with trusting the guy next to you. Watch the GB front 7 this week and you will see how effective the scheme is.

    I compare it to our zone blocking scheme. It is not really complicated, but requires 5 guys working together to create lanes. In Bates scheme it requires 7 guys working together to close down lanes.



    Is blitzing a sound defensive scheme? Most D coordinators would say no. I think it was a great package to run to surprise the Steelers, but if they had prepared for it I doubt we would have been so effective in the first half. Most good QBs love to play against blitzing teams, because when you know a blitz is coming it means big plays for the offense.

    I'm sure Farve and the Packers are putting together some plays that will make us look silly if we play that 8 man blitz happy style of D again. Hopefully Bates can put together something that the Pack are not expecting to see.
    First of all, stop the propellor on your beanie from spinning so fast. It's apparently interfering with your reception. It's a "Bash Denver Sports Writers" thread....but only obviously so. If you were in my class you'd get a "D-" for overall comprehension. The Bates comment was geared to serve a point, and even illustrated that way beforehand. Hell, I even spaced it out for the dyslexic...

    Secondly. Since when does the offense "know" when the D is blitzing??? Or do you just believe everthing that Peyton Manning says into a camera?

    "Don't worry, Bobby....you've still got the strongest arm in the neighborhood..." Yeah right......

    Think, man.....think. And try reviewing some NFL Defensive history while you're at it....nevermind the basic theory. Ever hear of a guy named "LT"? Or Derrick Thomas? How about a LB named D. Butkus? It's called pressuring the QB and it works....good Lord. I won't explain color to the blind man...

    However, I must close in pointing out that your glib "most D co-ordinators agree" comment is just about as ridiculous, unqualified, and outlandish as the crap I read in the Post and News lately. As if you know what "most" D co-ordinators think or say. LOLOLOL!!!

    LMAO!!!! You are too funny, dude......

    Leave a comment:


  • Cutler2007
    replied
    Since this seems to be mostly just another "Bash Bates" thread, I will address that.

    How about tons of injuries, and the most complicated defensive "scheme" in the NFL, huh???? Good grief....
    The scheme is not complicated at all, it just requires everyone to do their job. It also has a lot to do with trusting the guy next to you. Watch the GB front 7 this week and you will see how effective the scheme is.

    I compare it to our zone blocking scheme. It is not really complicated, but requires 5 guys working together to create lanes. In Bates scheme it requires 7 guys working together to close down lanes.

    There have been numerous teams that have tried to establish the Zone blocking scheme and gave up because it is not something that works well from day one. Does this mean that the scheme doesn't work?

    But the fans were right......Shanny reined the Bates crapola in, we started blitzing, and we whip the Steelers. Oh gee, who could've guessed? Pure 110% Rocket Science.....yeah right. HELLOOOO!!!!!
    Is blitzing a sound defensive scheme? Most D coordinators would say no. I think it was a great package to run to surprise the Steelers, but if they had prepared for it I doubt we would have been so effective in the first half. Most good QBs love to play against blitzing teams, because when you know a blitz is coming it means big plays for the offense.

    It also helped that the Steelers tried to surprise us and went pass happy the first half and it played perfectly into our blitzes.

    I'm sure Farve and the Packers are putting together some plays that will make us look silly if we play that 8 man blitz happy style of D again. Hopefully Bates can put together something that the Pack are not expecting to see.
    Last edited by Cutler2007; 10-25-2007, 02:31 PM.

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  • H. Rockefeller
    replied
    Dude, the sportswriters slobber all over Cutler's knob. I don't know what you've been reading

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