Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Shanahan losing his play-calling nerve

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • rev_rock
    replied
    Originally posted by MileHighStud View Post
    Believe me I am not defending Shanny, but I believe we have 'Dinger to blame for this one. With his (Heimerdinger) style it appears that he is more fixated on throwing from the drop back, as appose to rolling out. This was evident last season with the Snake. Jake, as we all know wasnt the best at throwing from the pocket. But he proved to be somewhat lethal on the run/boot/rollout (05 season). Exit Kubes and enter Dinger (06), Jake runs much less rollout passes and throws more from the pocket, and he struggled big time. I personally blame "Ding Dong Dinger."
    I'm glad someone else sees this. I was beginning to doubt myself. I've been screaming at my tv set since last season! Like I stated on another thread, we need to utilize the bootleg much more. The run/pass option is almost deadly. Defenses are kept in a more reactionary mode, and have to wonder which will happen - the quick zip-pass, or the QB just running it in. Works great, so why do we try to ram it up the middle all the time???

    Leave a comment:


  • mojo0730
    replied
    Originally posted by PowderAddict View Post
    Because our deep threat has been either hurt, or flat out of games this year.

    Marshall is a great big target and can make tough catches, but he doesn't have the speed to get deep.

    Who else is there to provide an honest deep threat? If Walker gets healthy, maybe then. But with the personnel situation, the deep threat really is not there.
    The thing is, the Broncos didn't have to go deep in this game. The passing game was working fine with what we had.

    But that doesn't change the fact that the play in question isn't, in my opinion, the play you should call in that circumstance.

    Leave a comment:


  • PowderAddict
    replied
    Originally posted by joseph727 View Post
    How come Favre was the only gunslinger allowed to be throwing bombs on Monday night? Shanny's not even giving Cutler or Marshall a chance to be like Brady/Moss or Manning/Harrison. We can't score if we don't try and since we are not the Baltimore defense, we can not play this style. This season is one more loss from being over and everyone here knows it. We might as well go out with guns blazing. I am begging Shanny to show Cutler off and let him make his mistakes throwing over the top instead of simple crossing routes. Never thought I'd see Dan Reeves again. I agree Cutler is not ready to take us to the top, but we need him to get all of his mistakes out of the way this year by going for it all on every drive. I can live with losing if we are losing 35-31 and we're trying to push the tempo. I can't stand watching us play not to lose. That's a Reeves/ Landry thing, not a Shanny thing. At least that's what I've always believed. I still believe in Shanny and I know Cutler is the man, but I'd like to see each get their balls and enthusiasm back. I know we were spoiled by Elway, but even he wasn't this good this fast so I know we can give Cutler a break, but not Shanny. He's supposed to know what to do at all times. Maybe he needs to watch some of his old films of '97 and '98 so he can get a glimpse of what a genius he used to be.
    Because our deep threat has been either hurt, or flat out of games this year.

    Marshall is a great big target and can make tough catches, but he doesn't have the speed to get deep.

    Who else is there to provide an honest deep threat? If Walker gets healthy, maybe then. But with the personnel situation, the deep threat really is not there.

    Leave a comment:


  • mojo0730
    replied
    Originally posted by joseph727 View Post
    How come Favre was the only gunslinger allowed to be throwing bombs on Monday night? Shanny's not even giving Cutler or Marshall a chance to be like Brady/Moss or Manning/Harrison. We can't score if we don't try and since we are not the Baltimore defense, we can not play this style. This season is one more loss from being over and everyone here knows it. We might as well go out with guns blazing. I am begging Shanny to show Cutler off and let him make his mistakes throwing over the top instead of simple crossing routes. Never thought I'd see Dan Reeves again. I agree Cutler is not ready to take us to the top, but we need him to get all of his mistakes out of the way this year by going for it all on every drive. I can live with losing if we are losing 35-31 and we're trying to push the tempo. I can't stand watching us play not to lose. That's a Reeves/ Landry thing, not a Shanny thing. At least that's what I've always believed. I still believe in Shanny and I know Cutler is the man, but I'd like to see each get their balls and enthusiasm back. I know we were spoiled by Elway, but even he wasn't this good this fast so I know we can give Cutler a break, but not Shanny. He's supposed to know what to do at all times. Maybe he needs to watch some of his old films of '97 and '98 so he can get a glimpse of what a genius he used to be.
    Actually, I think Shanahan needs to watch tapes of the Patriots and Colts and see how an NFL game should be paced.

    Leave a comment:


  • joseph727
    replied
    When will Culter be unleashed?

    How come Favre was the only gunslinger allowed to be throwing bombs on Monday night? Shanny's not even giving Cutler or Marshall a chance to be like Brady/Moss or Manning/Harrison. We can't score if we don't try and since we are not the Baltimore defense, we can not play this style. This season is one more loss from being over and everyone here knows it. We might as well go out with guns blazing. I am begging Shanny to show Cutler off and let him make his mistakes throwing over the top instead of simple crossing routes. Never thought I'd see Dan Reeves again. I agree Cutler is not ready to take us to the top, but we need him to get all of his mistakes out of the way this year by going for it all on every drive. I can live with losing if we are losing 35-31 and we're trying to push the tempo. I can't stand watching us play not to lose. That's a Reeves/ Landry thing, not a Shanny thing. At least that's what I've always believed. I still believe in Shanny and I know Cutler is the man, but I'd like to see each get their balls and enthusiasm back. I know we were spoiled by Elway, but even he wasn't this good this fast so I know we can give Cutler a break, but not Shanny. He's supposed to know what to do at all times. Maybe he needs to watch some of his old films of '97 and '98 so he can get a glimpse of what a genius he used to be.

    Leave a comment:


  • mojo0730
    replied
    Originally posted by Ravage!!! View Post
    If you are going to play the "what if" games... What if Jay throws the ball, and because of this "slicing" that is going on.. the DL tips the ball and its intercepted and we don't have a chance to go in to OT at all??

    I mean.. WHAT IF... they line up in shotgun (after spiking the ball)...and the center snaps it over Cutler's head, and when grabbing it after it bounces off the ground.... he scrambles to find a wide open TE??

    What if... after getting the first down, because of the spiking and having time to cool the jets of everyone, Jay takes two throws to find the open receiver.. and we win the game??

    WHAT IF... the LBs split out wide like the OC's had been seeing, and speculated on, and Jay ran the QB draw for a TD??

    The reality is that Jay most of the game had TONS of time to throw the ball. Look at the sacks. It wasn't because of the DL coming crashing in on him, it was because Jay spent too much time looking for an open receiver. So he had LOTS of time back there.. especially on three step drops.
    Well everyone else has played the 'what if' game with regards to us getting the first down on that play, including you, ravage.

    'Well, if we got the first down, we wouldn't be complaining about it and Mike Shanahan would be a genius!'

    That's the common statement from proponents of the play.

    So par for the course. If we're going to play circumstances and 'what ifs' with the play, then let's carry it further. Let's look at the number of variables that could have happened afterwards.

    The fact is it was, at the very least, a strange play to call in that situation - one many other coaches wouldn't have called - and it didn't work. Therefore, the criticism it's receiving is just, in my opinion.
    Last edited by mojo0730; 10-31-2007, 03:25 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Ravage!!!
    replied
    Originally posted by fraguela09 View Post
    What disgusted me more... was that play when we fumbled. How do you call for a running play, inside the two yard line... on the goal line... WHERE YOU PULL THE LEFT GUARD? ***! You don;t score by being cute... smash it fwd. Keep it simple.


    AND... both those drives... We didn't attack their weakness... PLAY ACTION!
    How is that being cute? Our running game relies on cut blocks and forcing lanes. But here is the thing that most don't get it with how blocking schemes work.

    I remember in college once where the coach called a RB dive play. When lining up at the LoS... I looked over the defense and actually saw where more DL were pushed to My right (their left) and the hole to MY left looked MUCH bigger. All we needed was a yard... so since the hole looked larger, I audibled out of the play from the right, and switched it to the left. The play went NO where. What I had forgotten was the blocking assignments on that play... and how the defense alignment determines those assignments (the center is the one that calls them out at the LoS once everyone lines up).... so when I switched the directions... I forced the OL to have to make a HARDER block than he would have despite the fact that MORE DL were where the ball was going.

    So just because the guard pulls... doesn't mean thats something determined at the play call, and not at the LoS and the OL having to adjust to whats needed. There is nothing.. NOTHING.. wrong with having a guard pull for a tight inside run on short yardage. Its VERY common.

    Leave a comment:


  • Ravage!!!
    replied
    Originally posted by mojo0730 View Post
    Another variable to consider in all this, and one I don't believe has been discussed yet...

    Let's say, for argument's sake, that Cutler gets the first down with that draw. And let's say it takes the offense about 5 seconds after that to line up and spike the ball. At that point, you're looking at 10-12 seconds left. Obviously, the defense knows the next play or two will be a pass play, and I'm fairly certain that almost everyone would agree on that.

    Given that Jay was pressured almost the entire game, and the offensive line has been pieced together over this season, it's entirely possible that Jay could get sacked in one of those shots at the end zone, and the game would undoubtedly be over at that point.

    So no matter how you slice it, it's not the right call to make in that situation. You HAVE to throw the ball on third down.
    If you are going to play the "what if" games... What if Jay throws the ball, and because of this "slicing" that is going on.. the DL tips the ball and its intercepted and we don't have a chance to go in to OT at all??

    I mean.. WHAT IF... they line up in shotgun (after spiking the ball)...and the center snaps it over Cutler's head, and when grabbing it after it bounces off the ground.... he scrambles to find a wide open TE??

    What if... after getting the first down, because of the spiking and having time to cool the jets of everyone, Jay takes two throws to find the open receiver.. and we win the game??

    WHAT IF... the LBs split out wide like the OC's had been seeing, and speculated on, and Jay ran the QB draw for a TD??

    The reality is that Jay most of the game had TONS of time to throw the ball. Look at the sacks. It wasn't because of the DL coming crashing in on him, it was because Jay spent too much time looking for an open receiver. So he had LOTS of time back there.. especially on three step drops.

    Leave a comment:


  • mojo0730
    replied
    Another variable to consider in all this, and one I don't believe has been discussed yet...

    Let's say, for argument's sake, that Cutler gets the first down with that draw. And let's say it takes the offense about 5 seconds after that to line up and spike the ball. At that point, you're looking at 10-12 seconds left. Obviously, the defense knows the next play or two will be a pass play, and I'm fairly certain that almost everyone would agree on that.

    Given that Jay was pressured almost the entire game, and the offensive line has been pieced together over this season, it's entirely possible that Jay could get sacked in one of those shots at the end zone, and the game would undoubtedly be over at that point.

    So no matter how you slice it, it's not the right call to make in that situation. You HAVE to throw the ball on third down.

    Leave a comment:


  • fraguela09
    replied
    That last play made me want to puke. You could see it coming as soon as MArsh failed to get out of bounds... Marsh caught the ball and got inside the 20... He fought for a couple more yards, at the expense of getting out of bounds... He was heading straight for the white stripe when he cut back in and fought for 2 more yards. BAD MOVE!

    Clock was about 55-60 seconds...

    You could sense right then and there we were in big trouble... As bad as Shanny's play-calling is at times, his clock management is worse!

    Let's face it... Two of our final three plays were running plays? EH?

    Young made a great run... we lucked out. BUT... how do you call for TWO running plays in that situation?

    NOW... to be fair. If Cutler makes a decent pass to Marsh on that second and goal play... Broncos score and this isn't even an issue.

    HERE is the problem... It's not that Shanny always makes the bonehead call... it's just that when he does call for a good play, either we commit a penalty or we fail to execute... drop a pass... throw a bad pas. SO, we all focus on the lame play calling.

    What disgusted me more... was that play when we fumbled. How do you call for a running play, inside the two yard line... on the goal line... WHERE YOU PULL THE LEFT GUARD? ***! You don;t score by being cute... smash it fwd. Keep it simple.


    AND... both those drives... We didn't attack their weakness... PLAY ACTION!

    Leave a comment:


  • mojo0730
    replied
    Originally posted by PatrickdaDookie View Post
    Are you aware of the history of the QB sneak? The Broncos, under Shanahan, were one of the first teams to run the quarterback sneak out of an empty backfield. Their original play was to come out with a single back, run him in motion to the sideline, then sneak it. They ran this play in 1997 versus the Patriots (in a Monday night battle of unbeatens), and they ran it again in Super Bowl XXXIII. Over the years, teams copied the plan of running a quarterback sneak with no one in the backfield, and an empty backfield became a warning for the defense to stack over the center.

    That's why many QB sneaks have a running back. The threat of a runner forces the defensive line to guard more than the sneak.

    So, if you suddenly come out with an empty backfield in that situation, how does it do anything except tell the defense WATCH OUT FOR A QB DRAW!!! Any coach will tell you that you want to disguise what you're doing. 5WR would not have accomplished that.

    Please consider these things next time you insult our coach. Not every play will work, and judging from your post, you surely couldn't do any better.
    I haven't heard many people 'insult' Mike Shanahan so far since the loss. They're simply criticizing what appears to them to be a misjudged and poorly executed playcall that cost the Broncos a sure-shot at the endzone. I think realistically, no one feels that that one single play cost the Broncos the game. But plenty feel it was a bad play call in a critical situation.

    Leave a comment:


  • mojo0730
    replied
    Originally posted by PatrickdaDookie View Post
    Where do you come up with this stuff?

    Whatever...
    I don't come up with anything.

    He indirectly questioned the playcalling when he told reporters that they were 'asking the wrong guy' and he 'just runs what they call' in a sly way after the Indy game. And this article clearly states he was 'grumpy' when asked about the Broncos Red Zone inefficiency.

    Leave a comment:


  • PatrickdaDookie
    replied
    Is it smart to call a QB sneak vs a stacked defense in the goaline, especially with a back in the backfield, that inexplicantly is NOT given the ball. All having the RB in there with Cutler did was BRING another LB in to help out and stop the QB SNEAK!!!
    Are you aware of the history of the QB sneak? The Broncos, under Shanahan, were one of the first teams to run the quarterback sneak out of an empty backfield. Their original play was to come out with a single back, run him in motion to the sideline, then sneak it. They ran this play in 1997 versus the Patriots (in a Monday night battle of unbeatens), and they ran it again in Super Bowl XXXIII. Over the years, teams copied the plan of running a quarterback sneak with no one in the backfield, and an empty backfield became a warning for the defense to stack over the center.

    That's why many QB sneaks have a running back. The threat of a runner forces the defensive line to guard more than the sneak.

    So, if you suddenly come out with an empty backfield in that situation, how does it do anything except tell the defense WATCH OUT FOR A QB DRAW!!! Any coach will tell you that you want to disguise what you're doing. 5WR would not have accomplished that.

    Please consider these things next time you insult our coach. Not every play will work, and judging from your post, you surely couldn't do any better.

    Leave a comment:


  • PatrickdaDookie
    replied
    And now, we have Cutler becoming increasingly disgruntled with the playcalling, especially in the redzone. A lot of you will say 'don't read into that - he's just frustrated'. Well, that's what they said about Elway and Reeves once upon a time, and we saw how that relationship ended.
    Where do you come up with this stuff?

    Whatever...

    Leave a comment:


  • jazzbodog
    replied
    Yes Yes Yes

    Originally posted by mojo0730 View Post
    Here's the deal, guys (and I apologize if I go on a bit of a rant).

    Rather than go into the playcall itself (since I've made my position quite clear on how I feel about it), I'd rather discuss the mentality of Shanahan going into that call.

    It's third down. You have the ball at your four. There's 20 seconds or so left, and you have no timeouts. You have a young QB that a lot of fans and I'm sure even a few of his teammates doubt, and you're handed an opportunity to make him a hero on Monday Night Football on a silver platter. The obvious decision would have been to let him throw the ball in that situation. But instead, Shanahan goes takes the conservative gamble - run a QB draw-play that virtually guarantees you won't turn the ball over, and if you don't get the first, you know you can kick the field goal in record-time.

    Now some of you say that Shanahan was going for the first down to give him a chance at two shots at the endzone instead of one. Whereas I don't necessarily dispute that, I question why an offensive 'genius' like Shanahan would need 3 plays to get four yards. You want to tell me with his reputation as an offensive guru, he doesn't have a good enough play to get four yards for a touchdown? Naturally, a coach would want a chance at two shots at the endzone instead of one, but not at the expense of the shot you already have. And don't give me that nonsense about Walker and Henry being out. The passing game was working all night long, and Marshall, Scheffler, Stokley, and Graham are more than enough weapons to get that four yards and a TD.

    And now, we have Cutler becoming increasingly disgruntled with the playcalling, especially in the redzone. A lot of you will say 'don't read into that - he's just frustrated'. Well, that's what they said about Elway and Reeves once upon a time, and we saw how that relationship ended.

    It's becoming more and more worrisome to me that the game is speeding up and going faster, while the Broncos are still running their playbook from 1998. The two best offenses in the league today - New England and Indianapolis - run the hurry-up offense and show urgency on almost every down. The Broncos, meanwhile, still run this slow, methodical, '1980's 49ers' offense that takes too much time and doesn't get you the points needed to win the football game and dominate your opponent. The Packers surely didn't lack aggressiveness - the first play of overtime was a 82-yard TD bomb against (what initially looked like) tight coverage. I mostly blamed the defense for this loss, but you know what? Our defense only gave up 13 points in regulation and held the Packers scoreless in the second half. At home, that should be more than enough to win the game. The Broncos, meanwhile, went 1-4 in the redzone and lacked any kind of aggressiveness on offense. That's playcalling people, not the players.
    I agree. Great post mojo.

    Leave a comment:

Working...
X