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Is there real hope for next year's D?

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  • Is there real hope for next year's D?

    We have complaints about our D every year. Used to be we had no sustained pass rush. Now its that we can't stop the run. And yet when it matters most the fact that we don't have enough power in the middle causes us to fail to get sustained pass rush too. Sure Dumervil can win some speed matchups one on one. But when they needed it most the Packers, like everyone else, doubled our ends and gave Favre all the time in the world.

    When you look back a couple years there was one "stud" DT we could have had (not someone who another team got lucky with, but someone we all knew would be good, and that was Wilfolk) He was a stud at Miami and we had a real shot at him, but because Gold's agents screwed up (freely admitted by Shanahan and Gold later on) his deal to remain in Denver blew up and we had to replace him. We ended up with DJ who is now becoming a real force at MLB for us and was awesome at WLB also. Now who knows how it all would have turned out with Wilson's health but maybe Gold would have remained a very good player if he hadn't got ruined in Tampa by switching to SLB. But that's the only obvious scenario I can recall where a real stud was available to us that we didn't get.

    We always seem to draft so late. And the great DT free agents are never available. The last 2 years we had a lot of talk in the draft forums about DTs but I'm having a hard time thinking of any of these rookies who are doing spectacular work, and I think we'd be hard pressed to find anyone who thinks we should not have taken RocketMan!

    Denver is certainly not a nation of fans used to the notion of rebuilding. So we want impact now. But how exactly do we get impact when the glaring weakness is the one most coveted by all teams? The game is won at the point of attack and clearly we haven't found enough power to win that battle. I thought we had a shot with Warren, I thought maybe McKinley and Kennedy would resurrect their careers, Heck I prayed Gardner would want a chance to win. But clearly that formula isn't working for us so far.

    Are there ANY projected FA, even restricted, we could get this off season to finally address our perennial problem?

    Is there a trade scenario where we could get Dorsey from LSU and would he win his matchups in Bates' scheme? Is there another can't miss DT prospect I'm overlooking?
    "What I can promise is that...I’m going to play like my hair’s on fire. I’ve found that when you play that way, making plays just happens naturally.”

  • #2
    Dorsey together with Thomas and our young DEs would be a good thing, no matter what system

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by DiehardinAlaska View Post
      We have complaints about our D every year. Used to be we had no sustained pass rush. Now its that we can't stop the run. And yet when it matters most the fact that we don't have enough power in the middle causes us to fail to get sustained pass rush too. Sure Dumervil can win some speed matchups one on one. But when they needed it most the Packers, like everyone else, doubled our ends and gave Favre all the time in the world.

      When you look back a couple years there was one "stud" DT we could have had (not someone who another team got lucky with, but someone we all knew would be good, and that was Wilfolk) He was a stud at Miami and we had a real shot at him, but because Gold's agents screwed up (freely admitted by Shanahan and Gold later on) his deal to remain in Denver blew up and we had to replace him. We ended up with DJ who is now becoming a real force at MLB for us and was awesome at WLB also. Now who knows how it all would have turned out with Wilson's health but maybe Gold would have remained a very good player if he hadn't got ruined in Tampa by switching to SLB. But that's the only obvious scenario I can recall where a real stud was available to us that we didn't get.

      We always seem to draft so late. And the great DT free agents are never available. The last 2 years we had a lot of talk in the draft forums about DTs but I'm having a hard time thinking of any of these rookies who are doing spectacular work, and I think we'd be hard pressed to find anyone who thinks we should not have taken RocketMan!

      Denver is certainly not a nation of fans used to the notion of rebuilding. So we want impact now. But how exactly do we get impact when the glaring weakness is the one most coveted by all teams? The game is won at the point of attack and clearly we haven't found enough power to win that battle. I thought we had a shot with Warren, I thought maybe McKinley and Kennedy would resurrect their careers, Heck I prayed Gardner would want a chance to win. But clearly that formula isn't working for us so far.

      Are there ANY projected FA, even restricted, we could get this off season to finally address our perennial problem?

      Is there a trade scenario where we could get Dorsey from LSU and would he win his matchups in Bates' scheme? Is there another can't miss DT prospect I'm overlooking?


      The DT we would look at in the early rounds of the draft is Frank Okam from Texas. He is what we want. I'm not giving him my stamp of approval yet, but he's the guy that is most on my radar as of now.

      Comment


      • #4
        Diehard, you're looking in the right direction. We do need help in several places, but we REALLY need someone to match well with Thomas (I think he's gonna be good). But after Monday's game, and most of the others this season, our front 4 just aren't there yet. Their best game was Pitt, and we let Ben out of the pocket too many times to suit my taste, even WITH the 4 sacks.

        Comment


        • #5
          I certainly agree with you all. We are needing to rebuild the D again. Not sure what the answer to this really would be. I sure miss our Orange Crush!! Now that was a D to be reckoned with.

          Would somebody please pressure the QB, stop the run. Take the ball back.

          GO BRONCOS!

          Remember the sun will rise and set, whether the Broncos win or not.
          GO BRONCOS!

          Remember the sun will rise and set, whether the Broncos win or not.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Mat'hir Uth Gan View Post
            The DT we would look at in the early rounds of the draft is Frank Okam from Texas. He is what we want. I'm not giving him my stamp of approval yet, but he's the guy that is most on my radar as of now.
            Really?

            Okam has been mentioned in very similar terms to Gerard Warren and Alan Branch....big but lazy. I haven't seen Texas at all this year, so I can't comment, but I am curious about the kid from North Carolina, Kentwan Balmer. Word is Butch Davis has made a real impact on him, and Balmer is rising up the charts as a result.

            Comment


            • #7
              Oh yes... where there is a young talented line, there is hope.

              We must have hope.

              Comment


              • #8
                Too many factors to tell from now, but we still got a shot for next years defense.
                MMA News
                MMA News 247

                Comment


                • #9
                  Yes.

                  We need another DT, but a role player or 2 to fit in the rotation will do. The line will jell and improve with experience. Another quality fat guy in the draft would be a definite positive, however.

                  Other than that, our greatest needs are the 2 easiest positions in all of football to fill in free agency. OLBs and SS/FSs can be found for minimal investment when compared with other positions. Our weakest areas also happen to be the easiest to buy yourself out of--not to mention the fact that rookie players at these positions can have an immediate impact.

                  Will we be great--no. Will it matter either way--probably not. AFC teams have to either A. Hope for a Peyton/Brady injury, B. Wait until they retire, or C. Find Tonya Harding and a cheap crowbar. Seriously--this team has as much potential as any in the AFC IF it ever comes together. Mike has 2 years to prove to me again that he is a great coach.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by MindField View Post
                    Really?

                    Okam has been mentioned in very similar terms to Gerard Warren and Alan Branch....big but lazy. I haven't seen Texas at all this year, so I can't comment, but I am curious about the kid from North Carolina, Kentwan Balmer. Word is Butch Davis has made a real impact on him, and Balmer is rising up the charts as a result.

                    I wouldn't lump Okam into that grouping at all. He's been pretty solid his entire career, and he's a really well-spoken and intelligent guy, which right away, puts him out of the Branch and Warren grouping alone. His play is the other part. He DOMINATES game. Just dominates them, and he's huge. He doesn't put up numbers, but he's like Ted Washington and Haloti Ngata. I see alot of Ngata in Okam.

                    I saw that Kiper dropped him out of his Top 25, and I know very well that big DT's tend to drop in the draft, but I'm leaning more towards a Ngata-type player then a Branch-type player. Regardless of what any of the experts say at the moment, I am very confident that Okam will be a middle 1st round pick when the draft rolls around.

                    Again, I haven't adopted Okam as my "guy" yet this season, but I'm very close. I watched him annihilate Oklahoma State a few weeks ago, and one more game like that, and I'm on the bandwagon, I don't care what the "experts" are saying currently.


                    Another guy I'm watching is Red Bryant from Texas A&M, he was looking like one of the better DTs in the nation before getting hurt last year, and he likely will be able to be snatched in the middle rounds.

                    And the last guy atm is Jason Shirley of Fresno State looks like a late 2nd rounder to me, but could go much higher if he excels at the Combine. You know how that goes.



                    Those are the DTs I'm concerned about. Balmer looks more like a future Power End or a pure Under Tackle.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Mug,
                      Like hearing you and Dream get into the draft prospects. I appreciate it.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by DiehardinAlaska View Post
                        We have complaints about our D every year. Used to be we had no sustained pass rush. Now its that we can't stop the run. And yet when it matters most the fact that we don't have enough power in the middle causes us to fail to get sustained pass rush too. Sure Dumervil can win some speed matchups one on one. But when they needed it most the Packers, like everyone else, doubled our ends and gave Favre all the time in the world.

                        When you look back a couple years there was one "stud" DT we could have had (not someone who another team got lucky with, but someone we all knew would be good, and that was Wilfolk) He was a stud at Miami and we had a real shot at him, but because Gold's agents screwed up (freely admitted by Shanahan and Gold later on) his deal to remain in Denver blew up and we had to replace him. We ended up with DJ who is now becoming a real force at MLB for us and was awesome at WLB also. Now who knows how it all would have turned out with Wilson's health but maybe Gold would have remained a very good player if he hadn't got ruined in Tampa by switching to SLB. But that's the only obvious scenario I can recall where a real stud was available to us that we didn't get.

                        We always seem to draft so late. And the great DT free agents are never available. The last 2 years we had a lot of talk in the draft forums about DTs but I'm having a hard time thinking of any of these rookies who are doing spectacular work, and I think we'd be hard pressed to find anyone who thinks we should not have taken RocketMan!

                        Denver is certainly not a nation of fans used to the notion of rebuilding. So we want impact now. But how exactly do we get impact when the glaring weakness is the one most coveted by all teams? The game is won at the point of attack and clearly we haven't found enough power to win that battle. I thought we had a shot with Warren, I thought maybe McKinley and Kennedy would resurrect their careers, Heck I prayed Gardner would want a chance to win. But clearly that formula isn't working for us so far.

                        Are there ANY projected FA, even restricted, we could get this off season to finally address our perennial problem?

                        Is there a trade scenario where we could get Dorsey from LSU and would he win his matchups in Bates' scheme? Is there another can't miss DT prospect I'm overlooking?
                        Im still holding my breath for this year. I really think we can become a top 10 by the end of the year , Probably not in stats but maybe ability. People are still missing assignments. Injuries still plague us too.


                        :salute!: !!Get well soon!!:salute!:

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by SlyBronco View Post
                          Im still holding my breath for this year. I really think we can become a top 10 by the end of the year , Probably not in stats but maybe ability. People are still missing assignments. Injuries still plague us too.
                          Agreed. I think we actually will to boot.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            injuries to whom

                            Originally posted by SlyBronco View Post
                            Im still holding my breath for this year. I really think we can become a top 10 by the end of the year , Probably not in stats but maybe ability. People are still missing assignments. Injuries still plague us too.
                            I'm not sure what that means unless you were counting on Winborn instead of Webster. But the only Dline injury is Rice, he's back and had 4 tackles but no pressure on Favre. But like I was saying before I'm not sure how our DEs are supposed to get consistent pass rush with no help from the tackles.
                            "What I can promise is that...I’m going to play like my hair’s on fire. I’ve found that when you play that way, making plays just happens naturally.”

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by DiehardinAlaska View Post
                              I'm not sure what that means unless you were counting on Winborn instead of Webster. But the only Dline injury is Rice, he's back and had 4 tackles but no pressure on Favre. But like I was saying before I'm not sure how our DEs are supposed to get consistent pass rush with no help from the tackles.
                              I think he was talking about the whole defense in general

                              Champ played hurt
                              Dre Bly played hurt
                              John Lynch got injured 2 times so far
                              Simeon Rice ( I guess he is fine now )
                              Tim Crowder got hurt at start of year
                              Ebenezer Ekuban went down for whole year in preseason
                              D.J. Williams supposably got hurt during mondays game but havent heard anything yet

                              Then their is our Offense but those are the only injuries i can think of off the top of my head so far on defense
                              sigpic

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