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Mike Shanahan Calls Out His Team

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  • #46
    Originally posted by underrated29 View Post
    nor am with yours, its all opinion man, you got yours, sandy has his, and i have mine. I hope when i called the idea of shanny stepping down dumb you took it as my opinion of the idea and not you being dumb. As i reread it could have been interpreted that way.
    No problem, man. Believe me, I've heard much worse on these boards, and didn't think twice of it.

    No need to apologize...
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    • #47
      BTW, before you hate on me, keep in mind that these words come from Sandy Clough and Mike Evans, so it's not something I'm creating or trying to start.
      In return, understand that it would be unwise to comment on what someone said without hearing (or reading) the exact words and the context in which they were spoken. And even then, all we'd be doing is discussing what one person thought of a situation (and their opinion could be right or wrong).

      I've been looking throughout the media today to try and find some further information to back up these claims, but nothing has shown up yet.


      My adopted Bronco is Chris Kuper. Huzzah!

      I am the raid leader for this World of Warcraft guild. Yay us!

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      • #48
        Originally posted by PatrickdaDookie View Post
        In return, understand that it would be unwise to comment on what someone said without hearing (or reading) the exact words and the context in which they were spoken. And even then, all we'd be doing is discussing what one person thought of a situation (and their opinion could be right or wrong).

        I've been looking throughout the media today to try and find some further information to back up these claims, but nothing has shown up yet.
        I suggest you listen to 950 AM The Fan. I never mispoke or misquoted anything Sandy said, and others who listened supported that viewpoint.
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        • #49
          Originally posted by mojo0730 View Post
          I suggest you listen to 950 AM The Fan. I never mispoke or misquoted anything Sandy said, and others who listened supported that viewpoint.
          I know you never misquoted. You never quoted at all. You might very well be right, but a responsible person never takes secondhand info at face value. Tore into his players? That's an opinion-statement right there, and I've heard nothing that indicates that to be an accurate statement. There's a difference between calling people out for poor play and tearing into them.


          My adopted Bronco is Chris Kuper. Huzzah!

          I am the raid leader for this World of Warcraft guild. Yay us!

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          • #50
            Originally posted by mojo0730 View Post
            I suggest you listen to 950 AM The Fan. I never mispoke or misquoted anything Sandy said, and others who listened supported that viewpoint.
            I should start Podcasting these shows. I wish I had speakers here at work, or I'd listen to it online from here.
            I like that station.

            It will be interesting to see how the team responds this weekend.

            Great topic to discuss, mojo!
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            "You find ways to win and certainly you can find ways to lose...it's not just dumb luck."
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            • #51
              Originally posted by PatrickdaDookie View Post
              I know you never misquoted. You never quoted at all. You might very well be right, but a responsible person never takes secondhand info at face value. Tore into his players? That's an opinion-statement right there, and I've heard nothing that indicates that to be an accurate statement. There's a difference between calling people out for poor play and tearing into them.
              The exact words Sandy and Mike used were 'ripped into', 'berated', and 'let them have it', among others.

              I think with those words, 'tore into' was a fairly accurate summarization of what they said.
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              • #52
                Originally posted by Taz_bb2 View Post
                It's great that he is openly pointing out those that need to improve. Those that don't perform to the level that is expected SHOULD be called out and held accountable.

                The big question is...who's hold Shanny accountable? Is there anyone that is putting the heat on him? After all, by his own admission, he is to blame for not getting them ready to play (said twice in the last month.)
                Certainly, although Shanahan has a "lifetime contract" Pat Bowlen's patience isn't unlimited. He won't fire Shanahan if the team continues to lose this season, but Shanahan doesn't have an unlimited amount of time to turn things around.

                If the Broncos were to have another losing season without a playoff berth in 2008 then Bowlen would have to rethink things and consider letting Mike go and hiring another coach in his place. That's perfectly obvious. At the least, he might consider taking away some of Mike's GM powers which might give Shanahan an excuse to leave the team.

                No matter what sort of job security Shanahan appears to have there are certain natural limits, and a 4-12 season or something will certainly severely test those limits.

                Unless Shanahan has a pretty good explanation of why this has happened (and I think he does) and can convince Bowlen that he has things in hand and will turn it around in 2008 (which he probably can do -- but then he has to prove it) then the end of the line will come for Mike a lot sooner than anybody expects.
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                • #53
                  Originally Posted by mojo0730 I truly think that if this team continues to slide - not necessarily lose, but continue to play as poorly as they have and quit during the middle of a game - then Shanahan will, in all probability, step down. It's clear with this and other comments made by players that Shanahan is quickly losing this locker room, and calling out individual players like he did will either bring everyone together and make them play hard for him, or further distance the players from the coaching staff. And if I've learned anything in my 17 years of watching the Broncos and the NFL, it's that it's easier and non-detremental to the salary cap to release the coach than the numerous players who are playing poorly and/or not listening to the coaches.
                  It's certainly possible that Shanahan would lose his taste for coaching this team if they continue to screw up and if his heart wasn't in it anymore, he'd step aside and let Bowlen find another Coach and GM.

                  But I doubt that will happen. This team is in transition, and teams in transition lose football games. That's just the way it is.

                  They can certainly get their act together and stop losing to good teams by 35 points, but they probably aren't going to win many more games this year, no matter what Shanahan does.

                  He's called out players before this too. He called out Michael Dean Perry and then cut him for poor DT play. He called out Trevor Pryce and told him he wasn't playing up to his salary. Trevor didn't like it, and took a negative attitude about the Broncos away to Baltimore. It probably influenced his decision that he wouldn't re-do his contract and take a pay cut to stay with the Broncos, but would rather go to another team.

                  Overall, it's not surprising that Shanahan called out the players on both lines who are not doing the job. I assume he thinks Matt Lepsis will respond by toughening up. Certainly the OL has got to protect Jay Cutler a lot better than they did against the Lions.

                  Losing is one thing, but getting your QB killed is another. The Broncos are paying Jay way too much money to let him get seriously injured and have his career threatened because of poor pass protection. Those guys need to do a LOT better at protecting the QB! I don't blame Shanahan for being angry about that. It was scary to watch Jay getting crushed by multiple Lions defenders and having no chance to do anything.
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                  • #54
                    Originally posted by Cugel View Post
                    Certainly, although Shanahan has a "lifetime contract" Pat Bowlen's patience isn't unlimited. He won't fire Shanahan if the team continues to lose this season, but Shanahan doesn't have an unlimited amount of time to turn things around.

                    If the Broncos were to have another losing season without a playoff berth in 2008 then Bowlen would have to rethink things and consider letting Mike go and hiring another coach in his place. That's perfectly obvious. At the least, he might consider taking away some of Mike's GM powers which might give Shanahan an excuse to leave the team.

                    No matter what sort of job security Shanahan appears to have there are certain natural limits, and a 4-12 season or something will certainly severely test those limits.

                    Unless Shanahan has a pretty good explanation of why this has happened (and I think he does) and can convince Bowlen that he has things in hand and will turn it around in 2008 (which he probably can do -- but then he has to prove it) then the end of the line will come for Mike a lot sooner than anybody expects.
                    And let's not kid ourselves, either. Although Bowlen has given Shanahan several votes of confidence over his tenure as Head Coach, he's never officially given him a 'lifetime contract', and in fact, most of the extensions that Shanahan has been given are of the 2-3 year variety.

                    And let us not forget, that Bowlen had given the same type of public support to Dan Reeves once upon a time, and even went as far as to permit Reeves to draft Tommy Maddox with their first round pick back in '92 (despite needs at other positions, specifically Wide Receiver), and all indications were that Elway was going to be traded away after '92. Had it not been for the team's 0-4 record without Elway in the lineup, I have no doubt Reeves would have been given the extension, and Elway would have been shown the door.

                    So Bowlen's trust and patience isn't absolute or indefinite. This team was 13-3 and playing in the AFC Championship game two seasons ago, 9-7 last season and out of the playoffs, and appear to be heading at a worse record this season. You can't have that type of regression for a team - especially one with the expectations of the Broncos - and feel the Head Coach's job is secure, even if he did give Bowlen his two Lombardi Trophies.
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                    • #55
                      Originally posted by Cugel View Post
                      It's certainly possible that Shanahan would lose his taste for coaching this team if they continue to screw up and if his heart wasn't in it anymore, he'd step aside and let Bowlen find another Coach and GM.

                      But I doubt that will happen. This team is in transition, and teams in transition lose football games. That's just the way it is.

                      They can certainly get their act together and stop losing to good teams by 35 points, but they probably aren't going to win many more games this year, no matter what Shanahan does.

                      He's called out players before this too. He called out Michael Dean Perry and then cut him for poor DT play. He called out Trevor Pryce and told him he wasn't playing up to his salary. Trevor didn't like it, and took a negative attitude about the Broncos away to Baltimore. It probably influenced his decision that he wouldn't re-do his contract and take a pay cut to stay with the Broncos, but would rather go to another team.

                      Overall, it's not surprising that Shanahan called out the players on both lines who are not doing the job. I assume he thinks Matt Lepsis will respond by toughening up. Certainly the OL has got to protect Jay Cutler a lot better than they did against the Lions.

                      Losing is one thing, but getting your QB killed is another. The Broncos are paying Jay way too much money to let him get seriously injured and have his career threatened because of poor pass protection. Those guys need to do a LOT better at protecting the QB! I don't blame Shanahan for being angry about that. It was scary to watch Jay getting crushed by multiple Lions defenders and having no chance to do anything.
                      I agree with most of this. But the point I'm trying to make, is that if the Broncos continue to quit on plays and not give their effort, then there's a problem - not so much them continuing to lose. You can lose games and still keep your respect and dignity. The Broncos certainly didn't demonstrate that against the Lions Sunday.
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                      • #56
                        Originally posted by PatrickdaDookie View Post
                        "Tore into his players" are your words."
                        and losing 44-7 deserves to be torn into

                        they need to get their act together.

                        2 of the worst losses in DENVER HISTORY have happend this
                        year and its funny how lots l(not everyone) like to turn a blind eye to that.

                        I would have them in pads all week and kick the crap out of them.
                        Like Vince Lobardi would have done if they effort looked pathetic and it
                        has at least in those 2 games this year.
                        NHL Blog at:NHL Blog by Medford Bronco!

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                        • #57
                          Originally posted by mojo0730 View Post
                          I agree with most of this. But the point I'm trying to make, is that if the Broncos continue to quit on plays and not give their effort, then there's a problem - not so much them continuing to lose. You can lose games and still keep your respect and dignity. The Broncos certainly didn't demonstrate that against the Lions Sunday.
                          you are a voice of reason to me.

                          I agree wholhearedly.
                          NHL Blog at:NHL Blog by Medford Bronco!

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                          • #58
                            Originally posted by mojo0730 View Post
                            And let's not kid ourselves, either. Although Bowlen has given Shanahan several votes of confidence over his tenure as Head Coach, he's never officially given him a 'lifetime contract', and in fact, most of the extensions that Shanahan has been given are of the 2-3 year variety.

                            And let us not forget, that Bowlen had given the same type of public support to Dan Reeves once upon a time, and even went as far as to permit Reeves to draft Tommy Maddox with their first round pick back in '92 (despite needs at other positions, specifically Wide Receiver), and all indications were that Elway was going to be traded away after '92. Had it not been for the team's 0-4 record without Elway in the lineup, I have no doubt Reeves would have been given the extension, and Elway would have been shown the door.

                            So Bowlen's trust and patience isn't absolute or indefinite. This team was 13-3 and playing in the AFC Championship game two seasons ago, 9-7 last season and out of the playoffs, and appear to be heading at a worse record this season. You can't have that type of regression for a team - especially one with the expectations of the Broncos - and feel the Head Coach's job is secure, even if he did give Bowlen his two Lombardi Trophies.
                            There's a difference. Bowlen doesn't interfere in football decisions of his GM, like who to draft. But, he vetoed trading Elway and later said he never considered allowing the coach to trade Elway. I don't think it had anything to do with losing 4 games without him. No way was Bowlen going to allow Reeves to get rid of Elway.

                            Obviously, it's a LOT easier to find a new coach than to find a new Hall of Fame QB (or even pro-bowl QB which Elway was at that time -- he only became a consensus Hall of Fame candidate when he won back to back SBs).

                            There's NO current Bronco who has taken the team to 3 SBs almost single-handedly and Shanahan has WON two SBs, so his position is a lot more secure than Dan Reeves's ever was.

                            As for the "lifetime contract" I'm referring to the conversation they had a few years ago when Shanahan dangled the Florida Gators job and basically demanded that Bowlen give him a verbal commitment, asking Bowlen "do you want me to continue to coach the Broncos?" And Bowlen reportedly looked him in the eye and said "as long as you want to continue to coach."

                            That's what's meant by "lifetime". But, like I said, things can change and Bowlen could change his mind if Shanahan isn't able to turn things around by next season.
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                            • #59
                              Originally posted by mojo0730 View Post
                              I agree with most of this. But the point I'm trying to make, is that if the Broncos continue to quit on plays and not give their effort, then there's a problem - not so much them continuing to lose. You can lose games and still keep your respect and dignity. The Broncos certainly didn't demonstrate that against the Lions Sunday.
                              Personally, I don't think shanny will be gone next year if this year doesn't go well. Maybe the one after. But if for some reason he does, who do we get as Head Coach? Is there really anyone out there available that is better than shanahan?
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                              • #60
                                Originally posted by mojo0730 View Post
                                I agree with most of this. But the point I'm trying to make, is that if the Broncos continue to quit on plays and not give their effort, then there's a problem - not so much them continuing to lose. You can lose games and still keep your respect and dignity. The Broncos certainly didn't demonstrate that against the Lions Sunday.
                                No.. they didn't. But you know what.. that happens. It does. Not only has this team beens suffering a lot, they have been playing like crap. THEN... to top it off... it appears you lose your most valuable player to an ACL (thats what it looked like on the replay)... so the team just fell flat. Now we never want to see it happen, but considering the situation, its magnified.... and for those that are ACHING to make a case against Shanahan... they mAGNIFY it.

                                Its also why we have people taking the blind eye. Its not a coincidence really. I find this to be much like the Jake Plummer situation around here a couple years back.

                                The more people said he was great.. the more people wanted to point out he sucked. If people pointed out he was aweful, someone else would put up stats saying how much "better" he was than elway. If someone called him 'average'... someone else would counter with an attempt to compare him to HoF QBs in the league.

                                The harder anyone pushes in one direction, the harder the resistance when pushing back. "For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction." On this board the reactions aren't always equal.

                                But Powder was right... you can't expect people to take your 'interpretation' of what you heard, when what you hear is pretty tainted in a certain direction. You even admitted yourself that you were just "summarizing." Just like Cliff Notes huh?

                                I don't think that Powder is saying that he didn't 'tear' into the players. He's saying that when one woman interprets a speech/talk/discussion or conversation.. and then she is sharing what she witnessed for radio listeners.. its not hard to imagine her using "descriptive" words to add interest to her point and or the story itself. So not only do you have HER interpretation of the events, then you have the words she chose to use to describe them (not sure if they themselves were really that accurate).. then we have to take YOUR words for what YOU heard within her story and then YOUR words to describe a situation that may have been exaggerated to begin with.

                                But it doesn't bother me that he's calling players out. It doesn't bother me that he's telling them in front of their peers that they need to pick it up. It doesn't bother me if he jumps down their throats and rips out their lungs. I personally don't think it shows anything other than a coach doing what my Junior High coach did... JUMPING down our THroats when we messed up! I don't think it shows a desperate coach. I don't think it shows a coach that is "changing" his stripes or philosophies.. I don't think it shows Shanahan as somehow doing something "different." I don't think for a minute it means that Shanahan is exasperated with the team or the players. I don't think it shows a SINGLE sign that he 'may resign' at the end of the year if things don't turn around.

                                I also don't think it means that he's losing his players.. or that now Bowlen is losing his coach. It just means he raised his voice. Not exactly something new from a team's locker room.

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