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  • #16
    Originally posted by mojo0730 View Post
    I'd have to hear more about the hair sample. According to Shanahan, that's what Henry told him - not something the Broncos as an organization did.

    I know this much - you CANNOT get a positive THC test on a UA from 2nd hand smoke. You just can't. What I think is the likely scenario is that he took a hit off a bong or a joint at a party or whatever, got tested the very next day (or possibly even the same day), and it showed up on a UA. It's unlikely a hair follicle test would show up positive that long after the UA if he only took one hit.

    That's just speculation on my part, except the part of the 2nd hand smoke. I know that that is impossible, and I'm somewhat of an expert with this stuff.
    Oh, I never said I thought he wasn't guilty... I was just curious about your thoughts on the follicle test.

    As for Shannahan bringing this up, I thought it was a response to a question that he was asked... and he responded by saying that after what he and Henry had discussed, if he was still ruled to have violated league policy... he was off the team. I don't mind that.
    Thanks, Reid!
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    • #17
      Originally posted by LordTrychon View Post
      Oh, I never said I thought he wasn't guilty... I was just curious about your thoughts on the follicle test.

      As for Shannahan bringing this up, I thought it was a response to a question that he was asked... and he responded by saying that after what he and Henry had discussed, if he was still ruled to have violated league policy... he was off the team. I don't mind that.
      Perhaps, but I feel that he should have left the lie detector test out of the answer.
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      • #18
        I find it interesting that when the Broncos go 13-3, the media tards pretty much ignore the Broncos and assume the Patriots are going to win the playoff game, get to the AFC Championship game and eventually the Super Bowl, but when Shanahan agrees to have a polygraph test administered as well as a hair sample test, the Broncos all of a sudden become news worthy.

        I don't understand why there are fans on these boards that have a problem with Henry taking a polygraph test or a hair sample test. Why shouldn't he be able to use everything at his disposal to clear his name? Why should everything be one sided in favor of the NFL? Polygraphs are not admissible in court because they are not deemed reliable enough to warrant consideration by a jury, but that doesn't mean that they aren't an effective investigative tool.
        My Opinion isn’t determined by what the Popular Opinion is. Sometimes I agree with the Majority, Sometimes I Don’t. If My Opinion is Different than Yours, I have to Ask One Question:
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        • #19
          Originally posted by mojo0730 View Post
          I would never do it, innocent or not. And I would never trust it 100%.

          The guy is a two-time offender. What are you more likely to believe - a UA test that came back positive a third time, or a machine that is flawed in such a way that our own legal system - with all the things they allow into evidence - declares they're not trustworthy enough?

          Like I said, I just feel Shanahan would have been better off letting the league handle this like they're supposed to. His intervention just comes off as totally wrong, in my opinion.
          I dont agree that it's an intervention. I believe Shanahan offers that as an added extra that could help with the outcome of the appeal. I think this tactic could help if any player winds up in trouble (as in Kircus' case). I think it says to the court "I've done this and that to prove my innocence".
          Last edited by JHoward; 11-14-2007, 10:37 AM.
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          • #20
            Originally posted by mojo0730 View Post
            Perhaps, but I feel that he should have left the lie detector test out of the answer.
            That's a fair view... I think Shannahan is mainly concerned with the the organization looking good in the end regardless of the outcome. Can't blame him, as it's part of his job... but I can understand those who wouldn't like it too.
            Thanks, Reid!
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            • #21
              Originally posted by mojo0730 View Post
              a machine that is flawed in such a way that our own legal system - with all the things they allow into evidence - declares they're not trustworthy enough?
              To clarify why lie detectors are a problem...

              The biggest reason lie detector tests are flawed is that they produce too many false positive results. The machine cannot detect the difference between someone who is stressed out and answers all questions honestly and the person who is nervous because he's lieing the entire session. Unfortunately, too many people tell the truth but are so nervous that they are detected as lieing.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by LordTrychon View Post
                That's a fair view... I think Shannahan is mainly concerned with the the organization looking good in the end regardless of the outcome. Can't blame him, as it's part of his job... but I can understand those who wouldn't like it too.
                It's going to be hard for the Broncos to look good in this situation, especially if Henry gets suspsended (which I truly think he will), given his two-strike record coming in here.

                I understand Shanahan's motives. He doesn't want him or the organization to be criticized for signing Henry, as they already have been. But I just feel it's weird and unnecessary for him to be giving players lie detector tests. I mean, aren't there more pressing needs that require his attention right now?
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                • #23
                  Originally posted by TheGlue Factory View Post
                  To clarify why lie detectors are a problem...

                  The biggest reason lie detector tests are flawed is that they produce too many false positive results. The machine cannot detect the difference between someone who is stressed out and answers all questions honestly and the person who is nervous because he's lieing the entire session. Unfortunately, too many people tell the truth but are so nervous that they are detected as lieing.
                  People can also fool a lie detector into believing they're telling the truth when they're not.

                  It's harder to do than to trigger a false positive, but it has been done. I don't mind it as a tool for law enforcement to give them leads in cases or to give them direction when they otherwise have none. But for the Broncos? I'd rather them just focus on football and let the league handle this.
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                  • #24
                    who cares what shanny does??????

                    so what if he gave a lie detector test out to a player that says he's innocent

                    its not up to shanny and co. at this point in time its up to the league

                    there is nothing wrong with what shanny has done. if the player didnt want to take the test then there may/maynot be something that individual is hiding. sure the are not 100% accurate or anything but its something that shanny hold faith into.

                    the players that play for the broncos under shanny know what he will do for them so long as they are honest with him. if shanny needs to test em and they agree who cares.

                    the league will do its investigating and make its ruling with whatever evidence they come up with. they probably wont even look at the lie detector test.
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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by lynchembaby View Post
                      who cares what shanny does??????

                      so what if he gave a lie detector test out to a player that says he's innocent

                      its not up to shanny and co. at this point in time its up to the league

                      there is nothing wrong with what shanny has done. if the player didnt want to take the test then there may/maynot be something that individual is hiding. sure the are not 100% accurate or anything but its something that shanny hold faith into.

                      the players that play for the broncos under shanny know what he will do for them so long as they are honest with him. if shanny needs to test em and they agree who cares.

                      the league will do its investigating and make its ruling with whatever evidence they come up with. they probably wont even look at the lie detector test.
                      Ultimately, I cannot disagree with this.

                      I don't really care if Shanahan gives out lie detector tests or not.

                      But it doesn't mean I support it, either.
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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by lynchembaby View Post
                        who cares what shanny does??????

                        so what if he gave a lie detector test out to a player that says he's innocent

                        its not up to shanny and co. at this point in time its up to the league

                        there is nothing wrong with what shanny has done. if the player didnt want to take the test then there may/maynot be something that individual is hiding. sure the are not 100% accurate or anything but its something that shanny hold faith into.

                        the players that play for the broncos under shanny know what he will do for them so long as they are honest with him. if shanny needs to test em and they agree who cares.

                        the league will do its investigating and make its ruling with whatever evidence they come up with. they probably wont even look at the lie detector test.
                        Your post makes it seem like Shanahan FORCED them to take the lie detector test, and if they didn't agree they'd fall out of favor with him. In both instances wasn't it the players who suggested it? In my opinion if a player is resorting to using a lie detector test he is obviously guilty, because as mojo(whatever) pointed out someone can easily manipulate the results. Someone knowing could see the lie detector as a way to back up what whatever they're lying about.
                        Careful what you wish for, Darth , cause here comes the worst DC in the league...... -stnzd
                        What's that? Need proof? http://dack.com/archive/bob-slowik-must-be-fired.html


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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by delirium_05 View Post
                          Your post makes it seem like Shanahan FORCED them to take the lie detector test, and if they didn't agree they'd fall out of favor with him. In both instances wasn't it the players who suggested it? In my opinion if a player is resorting to using a lie detector test he is obviously guilty, because as mojo(whatever) pointed out someone can easily manipulate the results. Someone knowing could see the lie detector as a way to back up what whatever they're lying about.
                          Your argument makes no sense. Unless you're talking about a sociopath, they aren't going to use a lie detector test to prove their innocent when they're really guilty. Polygraphs aren't as unreliable as you and mojo want to think. While civilian courts don't allow the results of polygraph tests to be admissible, the military justice system does, unless they've changed their rules. On top of that, polygraphs at the very least are effective investigative tools. That's why police departments use them. It's not easy to fool the test. The idea that it is easy comes from watching too much television or too many movies. If the average person could fool the test with little effort, why would law enforcement agencies use them as often as they do? I guess they just enjoy wasting their time with useless data.
                          My Opinion isn’t determined by what the Popular Opinion is. Sometimes I agree with the Majority, Sometimes I Don’t. If My Opinion is Different than Yours, I have to Ask One Question:
                          You Mad Bro?
                          Don’t Be A Mean Girl

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by broncolee View Post
                            Your argument makes no sense. Unless you're talking about a sociopath, they aren't going to use a lie detector test to prove their innocent when they're really guilty. Polygraphs aren't as unreliable as you and mojo want to think. While civilian courts don't allow the results of polygraph tests to be admissible, the military justice system does, unless they've changed their rules. On top of that, polygraphs at the very least are effective investigative tools. That's why police departments use them. It's not easy to fool the test. The idea that it is easy comes from watching too much television or too many movies. If the average person could fool the test with little effort, why would law enforcement agencies use them as often as they do? I guess they just enjoy wasting their time with useless data.
                            Lol, I was basing my argument off the self proclaimed "expert" in the matter. First and last time I side with mojo on any subject.
                            Careful what you wish for, Darth , cause here comes the worst DC in the league...... -stnzd
                            What's that? Need proof? http://dack.com/archive/bob-slowik-must-be-fired.html


                            Goodbye social life...




                            My Mojo!

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by delirium_05 View Post
                              Lol, I was basing my argument off the self proclaimed "expert" in the matter. First and last time I side with mojo on any subject.
                              I didn't say I was an expert with polygraphs, other than what everyone here knows.

                              I am, however, an expert when it comes to drug testing, UA results, hair samples, etc., seeing as I was the supervisor of a drug and alcohol testing center for several years.
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