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  • #31
    If Warrick Holdman can come back healthy from his neck injury, he could play strongside or MLB, while D.J. could move back to his natural position at weakside. Webster has experience at MLB, but I'm not sure if he is the answer. We may need to think about drafting a LB.

    Either way, Ian Gold needs to go.

    Comment


    • #32
      You guys realize that DJ leads the team in tackles and is ranked 7th in the league with 93 tackles, right? How is he a failed experiment when he's ranked 7th?!


      http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorysta...seasonType=REG


      DJ has been playing great his FIRST YEAR at MLB and you guys already want him moved back? Hes 7th in tackles! I mean stats aren't that meaningful but comeon guys. Plus hes finally developing into a leader for the defense, DJ is doing great, especially when you consider his experience at the position (none) and hes made a lot of great plays this year that I guess everyone has already forgotten. MLB is not our problem this year, trust me.

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by stnzed View Post
        As far as firing bates is concerned, the Broncos absolutely cannot fire Bates!

        Sorry Bates critics, I can see your reasoning, but firing the coordinator after one season would be a disaster imo. And the fact is, just because you think he's clueless, it doesn't mean he is!

        His system has proven to work, and like it or not, Broncos fans are going to have to be patient. Not just with Bates, with everything......
        Bravo! Excellent post!!!
        Haze gray and underway!

        Comment


        • #34
          For all that the D has been disappointing I agree we should keep Bates at least one more year. At some point if you're building a new D/ a new type of D you have to stick with a coach through the bad year(s). Maybe we'll never get it and we bring in someone else down the road, but I'd prefer we not hire and fire a new D coach every year.

          As for DJ . . . I haven't been upset at his play per se ,especially lately -- but he never turned into the leader we had hoped for. His job was supposed to be directing the D at the beginning of the year, right? Lynch took that over, and when Lynch was out I think I saw Bly directing people (unless he was just yapping and gesturing and someone else was calling things in). I guess you don't have to have your MLB be that person, but all other things being equal I'd like a leader there. In this scheme he should be getting a ton of tackles, especially with our run D numbers being so bad that everyone is trying run more than they might otherwise. So I'm not sure if his tackle numbers are the end all of the discussion. I like the guy, don't think we'll get rid of him or anything, but if theres someone we really think could be special at MLB I wouldn't mind seeing DJ shuffled somewhere.
          Always a Broncos fan.

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by Geandily View Post
            You guys realize that DJ leads the team in tackles and is ranked 7th in the league with 93 tackles, right? How is he a failed experiment when he's ranked 7th?!


            http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorysta...seasonType=REG


            DJ has been playing great his FIRST YEAR at MLB and you guys already want him moved back? Hes 7th in tackles! I mean stats aren't that meaningful but comeon guys. Plus hes finally developing into a leader for the defense, DJ is doing great, especially when you consider his experience at the position (none) and hes made a lot of great plays this year that I guess everyone has already forgotten. MLB is not our problem this year, trust me.
            Stats are crap, when trying to determine a player's worth.

            Otherwise, you could say that Champ is a terrible CB, since he only has 2 int's.

            Plus, in a LB, you need to look at how many of those tackles are for a loss. Otherwise, anybody can just stand there, 15 yds beyond the LOS, and get run over in a pile of bodies......
            "It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate,
            tireless minority keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of
            men."

            -- Samuel Adams

            sigpicJacks RULE!!!!!!

            Comment


            • #36
              I personally would like to see DJ stay at MLB if he shows he can play the spot. I think he's improved tremendously since the bye week... and am giving him the benefit of the doubt so far.

              But that has more games to determine. But I've liked how you can see the progression of DJ as the season progresses along. I know the coaches want to use his speed and athleticism at MLB, and want to be sure to keep him on the field. MLB, to me, makes the most sense if he proves that he's valuable there.

              Comment


              • #37
                Dj

                I believe the off season moves will dictate how DJ moves, if the best player available plays MLB, we'll move him back outside. Likewise if the best player we can pick up is a OLB, DJ will stay. He's a stud either way.

                Comment


                • #38
                  DJ is fine where he is. He is going to be a STUD! Look at Nick Barnett. He was just an average LB and has now come into his own and become a top MLB in this league.

                  What I would love to see is Denver use their 1st RD pick in the draft on a WLB such as Dan Connor, PSU or Keith Rivers, USC. I really like Connor because he doesn't miss tackles, is a very strong leader, good in pass coverage. Plus he can play all 3 LB positions. Then trade Ian Gold and a 4th to ANY team for a 3rd RD pick. In the 3rd RD draft a SLB such as Beau Bell, UNLV. He is athletic enough to cover TE/RB/FB, a very good blitzer and is blazing fast. Then we keep Webster, Winborn & Holdman for depth/starter/ST.

                  Next years D...

                  Crowder/(2nd RD Pick)/Thomas/Moss or Dumervil

                  Bell/Williams/Connor

                  Champ/Abdullah/Foxy/Bly!!!

                  I really feel that this defense can be something special if Shanny has one more real good draft!
                  Last edited by AllEyezOnZach27; 11-29-2007, 08:13 PM.
                  sigpic

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Defense

                    Bates definately needs "his" type of personnel.
                    DJ has improved all year at Mike. He does seem to fit Mike more than the OLB spots...he is finally starting to develop the reading of O-lines, and becoming a dominant down hill gap plugger, critical to Bates scheme-Zach Thomas.
                    He is talented to play any LB spot, but he is developing well at Mike.

                    I'd look for a trade or two to acquire a DT, or LB's. Another possible move in the draft to get a playmaker on defense.

                    Off Season Pay Cuts, or Cuts
                    Based on injury risk/playing time, performance, salary, and potential of youngsters

                    Gold
                    Webster
                    Engleberger
                    Lynch
                    Ferguson
                    Adams
                    [email protected]
                    Velocity Sports Performance
                    Dublin, CA

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by 24zone View Post
                      Bates definately needs "his" type of personnel.
                      DJ has improved all year at Mike. He does seem to fit Mike more than the OLB spots...he is finally starting to develop the reading of O-lines, and becoming a dominant down hill gap plugger, critical to Bates scheme-Zach Thomas.
                      He is talented to play any LB spot, but he is developing well at Mike.

                      I'd look for a trade or two to acquire a DT, or LB's. Another possible move in the draft to get a playmaker on defense.

                      Off Season Pay Cuts, or Cuts
                      Based on injury risk/playing time, performance, salary, and potential of youngsters

                      Gold
                      Webster
                      Engleberger
                      Lynch
                      Ferguson
                      Adams
                      Adams and Ferguson are free agents, I believe.

                      Hopefully Lynch isn't going anywhere......

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        I still don't think we will be cutting Ian Gold.

                        Very rarely does a team start a LB from Day 1. It happens, but it's usually not very pretty. Therefore, even if we draft an OLB in the 1st round (which I'm strongly against for value purposes in this particular draft), I don't think we would start a rookie over Gold or Webster, unless that rookie went bonkos in camp.

                        If my memory serves correct, Ian's salary does not increase more then 500k from this season to next season. It's the season AFTER (2009) that it shoots up. I could be wrong, but I think that's correct.

                        Which leaves signing an expensive impact LB in free agency as the only way Gold gets cut, and I believe even if we did sign an OLB, he'd be playing SAM for at least this coming season.


                        I'm not opposed to upgrading over Ian, he does have his flaws. But he's not bad, he brings a lot of skills to the table, and he's affordable, at least for another year (and I still think he'd restructure in a heartbeat if the team asked him). I think we can win with Ian, I don't think we can win with our current DTs, our current SAM, and our current Safeties.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Mat'hir Uth Gan View Post
                          I still don't think we will be cutting Ian Gold.

                          Very rarely does a team start a LB from Day 1. It happens, but it's usually not very pretty. Therefore, even if we draft an OLB in the 1st round (which I'm strongly against for value purposes in this particular draft), I don't think we would start a rookie over Gold or Webster, unless that rookie went bonkos in camp.
                          yeah.. I was thinking the same thing. If we drafted a LB, I wouldn't expect that LB to be starting and being an upgrade over anyone on our roster. I would think if we wanted to upgrade, it would have to be through FA.. and thats if we do spend the money for that position.

                          Since Gold's contract doesn't have a BIG jump until the 2009 season, then I can't imagine us drafting a LB to start that first year (unless its a 1st round pick, then we might).

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Ravage!!! View Post
                            yeah.. I was thinking the same thing. If we drafted a LB, I wouldn't expect that LB to be starting and being an upgrade over anyone on our roster. I would think if we wanted to upgrade, it would have to be through FA.. and thats if we do spend the money for that position.

                            Since Gold's contract doesn't have a BIG jump until the 2009 season, then I can't imagine us drafting a LB to start that first year (unless its a 1st round pick, then we might).
                            I agree to a point. But if we drafted a LB like Connor is the 1st, do you believe we drop Gold after this year or play Connor at SLB and drop Gold after 2008?

                            Also do you really believe that Gold's play is worth the contract that we are paying him? And why couldn't a rookie come in and start from day one if they weren't a 1st RD pick? I honestly believe that Beau Bell could come in here and start over Webster/Holdman! IMO
                            sigpic

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by AllEyezOnZach27 View Post
                              I agree to a point. But if we drafted a LB like Connor is the 1st, do you believe we drop Gold after this year or play Connor at SLB and drop Gold after 2008?

                              Also do you really believe that Gold's play is worth the contract that we are paying him? And why couldn't a rookie come in and start from day one if they weren't a 1st RD pick? I honestly believe that Beau Bell could come in here and start over Webster/Holdman! IMO
                              because of the money. I used the first round draft example, because if we are spending that kind of money on a LB, the money being paid to him MAY very well determine how many LBs we keep on the roster simply due to finances. You may feel hat Bell could start over those guys, doesn't mean its a reality. I just don't think the Broncos draft two LBs, and start two rookies. I would say IF (I don't think they do) use a first round pick on a LB, then because of the money he's being paid, would most likely get the first chance (not just given) to break the starting line up.

                              Now obviously that doesn't scratch all the scenarios that could develop.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by AllEyezOnZach27 View Post
                                I agree to a point. But if we drafted a LB like Connor is the 1st, do you believe we drop Gold after this year or play Connor at SLB and drop Gold after 2008?

                                Also do you really believe that Gold's play is worth the contract that we are paying him? And why couldn't a rookie come in and start from day one if they weren't a 1st RD pick? I honestly believe that Beau Bell could come in here and start over Webster/Holdman! IMO
                                I know this wasn't aimed at me, but I thought it was interesting and wanted to give my view and opinion.

                                It's interesting you brought up Connor for your draftee example because he's the one guy that really could bring some utility to our LB corps. He can play any of the 3 LB positions, which would give us a ton of flexibility as for what the organization may want to do at that position. I don't like the idea of using a 1st rounder on a LB, but if we did, Connor is growing on me as the one to use it on.

                                If we draft Connor, I think your option #2 is more likely, where Connor sees time at SAM (or WILL if Gold is injured) and would take over for Gold in 2009. Connor could also simply just back up all three spots. The Jags did that this year with Durant who was their 2nd round pick.

                                Gold gets 5 million a year. The top OLBs get 10 million a year. I would say Gold's worth the money we are paying him. There is no LB in the league that is twice as good as he is. Better, yes, Twice as good, no. Incidentally, a rookie 1st rounder would be making more then 5 million per year.

                                Can a late round LB come in and start? Yes. I believe Morrison did it with Oakland two years ago, he was in the 6th round I think. So, it does happen. It is just rare. And obviously, it's luck as well, you can't depend on finding a mid-late round gem in the draft. And I back Ravage on his statement that just because someone thinks something is the case, doesn't necessarily mean its the reality. It is very rare that a rookie can come in and play better then a veteran, regardless of who it is.

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