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Bailey and Bly's Selfishness is Hurting the Broncos

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  • Bailey and Bly's Selfishness is Hurting the Broncos

    Im not one to complain and I think we have two fine corners. However the technique they use is flawed for our scheme of defense over the use of 4 quarters. They never switch their style and its all in an effort to create plays and create turnovers, yet this season it has only led to big plays for the opposition both deep and underneath.

    Me personally i dont like how they play 5 to 10 yards off the reciever in order to watch the qb. I think its selfish. It makes the team vulnerable to pump fakes and playaction just because they want to get theirs. Bates scheme was always bump and run. He had two of the most physical corners in the league down in miami. And i havent seen dre or champ put a hand on a reciever at the line of scrimmage.

    I think that technique has hindered our defense as a whole and especially our pass rush. Guys are getting free run off the line scrimmage no matter the down or distance and its retarded. It could be 3rd and 5 and we are giving recievers a ten yard cushion. How stupid is that. He is going to run a comeback and the first down.

    Bailey and Bly are better than this. They need to play man to man and not this type of man zone that they are looking atrocious in right now. get your hands on somebody and lets play ball. Teams are attacking us at will and our safties arent making it better.
    Last edited by MilitantDBFan; 12-13-2007, 03:27 PM.
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  • #2
    I'm pretty sure they line up and play the way they do because that's what the coaches tell them to do. But they have to play back and watch the QB because our run defense is so bad they often have to come up and help. I can't believe you see that as selfishness.

    Do you really think that Bailey and Bly just go out there and do their own thing regardless of what the coaches say?

    Please.


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    • #3
      I think its their preference to play off, not a coaches strategy because it doesnt work. Bates didnt play his CB's off in coverage like that in Miami or GreenBay. Bailey and Bly's ball skills are tremendous they dont have to play the way they are playing. And i dont mean that their acts are selfish in way of nature, just selfish because they see it isnt working and they still use it.

      Mike is never one to ruffle feathers with veterans that are working hard and doing their job. Bly and Bailey are doing their job. They arent slacking. But they are really helping either. Id like to see them play more of natural man coverage at the line of scrimmage. Change it up a little bit. You cant play like that the entire game.

      I know this style wasnt deployed in bates previous stops, so why now. Because its Bly and Champs preference. They should just play the game the way it was meant to be played. Bates scheme has never had a chance because we have got two guys trying to be cute in the backfield. Its not about disregard for the coaches. These are two vets, coaches arent going to put them in positions they are not comfortable in. I think Coach has been more than willing to change his scheme for these two guys.
      A Wise Man Once Told Me Dont Argue With Fools Cuz People From a Distance Cant Tell Who is Who

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      • #4
        Truth be told, Bly and Bailey have played terrifically for us this year.

        I mean, according to footballoutsiders DVOA rankings, we rank 4th against both number one and number two recievers which is pretty darn good.

        We rank 32th against #3/#4 recievers and 30th against TEs.

        So, what we've been doing right in the passing defense has had to do with having great corners.
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        • #5
          Dont get me wrong, i think both Bailey and Bly are terrific. Bailey has had some slippage this season in terms of performance, but im satisfied with their play. Im not a fan of how they are playing. Stats are awesome, but im watching the game. I see the playaction overtop, i see the routes underneath. Luckily they are two the best and rarely pay for their mistakes, but they can be costly.

          I think it would benefit the team more if they played in this still occasionally. Not every down. Some people blame the run defense, perhaps they are part of the cause for a faulty run defense. As it stands now, they have to run atleast 15 yards to get to the RB at the LOS. Maybe if they played on the LOS we would have a better run defense.

          We will never know because they have only played one style. All im saying is that they have all world talent and they are restricting themselves. becuase they feel they can make more plays by looking into the backfield. Truth be told they havent made any plays and we suck on defense. Try something different. It can never hurt. I can say with certainty that bly and bailey have not put a finger on wideout at the line of scrimmage and it hurts this ball club. Free releases for a wideout is their best friend and this tactic plays right into it.
          A Wise Man Once Told Me Dont Argue With Fools Cuz People From a Distance Cant Tell Who is Who

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          • #6
            Originally posted by MilitantDBFan View Post
            Dont get me wrong, i think both Bailey and Bly are terrific. Bailey has had some slippage this season in terms of performance, but im satisfied with their play. Im not a fan of how they are playing. Stats are awesome, but im watching the game. I see the playaction overtop, i see the routes underneath. Luckily they are two the best and rarely pay for their mistakes, but they can be costly.

            I think it would benefit the team more if they played in this still occasionally. Not every down. Some people blame the run defense, perhaps they are part of the cause for a faulty run defense. As it stands now, they have to run atleast 15 yards to get to the RB at the LOS. Maybe if they played on the LOS we would have a better run defense.

            We will never know because they have only played one style. All im saying is that they have all world talent and they are restricting themselves. becuase they feel they can make more plays by looking into the backfield. Truth be told they havent made any plays and we suck on defense. Try something different. It can never hurt. I can say with certainty that bly and bailey have not put a finger on wideout at the line of scrimmage and it hurts this ball club. Free releases for a wideout is their best friend and this tactic plays right into it.
            I don't think that you don't have a point, but I question this idea for helping with run defense, because it's easier to react to the run if you are back away from the line of scrimmage. And I remember reading somewhere that Champ and Dre are both ranked fairly well in tackles.

            For the underneath routes, they are harder to pinpoint, but I think that we risk losing the one thing going well if we try to change what Champ and Dre are doing.
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            • #7
              I totally agree with this thread. Thats the reason why QB's have high percentage everytime they place. We need to try the bump and run approach more often. Thats why the GreenBay DB's are good good, because they are very aggressive. Our DB's are better than theirs so we need to get more physical and and stop playing tag football.
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              • #8
                I guess some people missed the memo when we scrapped the Bates scheme against pittsburg to run the Coyer scheme
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                • #9
                  sorry but im not gonna tell a hall of fame CB how to play the game... he knows what he is doing 50x better then any poster on this board.
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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by MilitantDBFan View Post
                    I think its their preference to play off, not a coaches strategy because it doesnt work.
                    Where they play is part of the defensive scheme that is determined with by the coach or the defensive captain. It's not like the coach says, "Ok, position yourself where ever you feel like standing, it makes no difference to me.". Each player is strategically placed to postion the entire defense for its best chance of success based on the scheme that's been called.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by BR0NCOFANATIC View Post
                      I totally agree with this thread. Thats the reason why QB's have high percentage everytime they place. We need to try the bump and run approach more often. Thats why the GreenBay DB's are good good, because they are very aggressive. Our DB's are better than theirs so we need to get more physical and and stop playing tag football.
                      Green Bay also has a guy named Charles Woodson, one of the only true shut down corners in the game. He's not physical, meaning he doesn't do a whole lot of bumping but his ability to stay with a WR and close when he needs to are unmatched in the NFL.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by MilitantDBFan View Post
                        Im not one to complain and I think we have two fine corners. However the technique they use is flawed for our scheme of defense over the use of 4 quarters. They never switch their style and its all in an effort to create plays and create turnovers, yet this season it has only led to big plays for the opposition both deep and underneath.

                        Me personally i dont like how they play 10 to 15 yards off the reciever in order to watch the qb. I think its selfish. It makes the team vulnerable to pump fakes and playaction just because they want to get theirs. Bates scheme was always bump and run. He had two of the most physical corners in the league down in miami. And i havent seen dre or champ put a hand on a reciever at the line of scrimmage.

                        I think that technique has hindered our defense as a whole and especially our pass rush. Guys are getting free run off the line scrimmage no matter the down or distance and its retarded. It could be 3rd and 5 and we are giving recievers a ten yard cushion. How stupid is that. He is going to run a comeback and the first down.

                        Bailey and Bly are better than this. They need to play man to man and not this type of man zone that they are looking atrocious in right now. get your hands on somebody and lets play ball. Teams are attacking us at will and our safties arent making it better.
                        i think you need to start watching more of the games and less analyzing....bailey and bly line up the way they are told and what the game dictates, and i have seen them line up on the wr many times in every game...champ was hurt when he lined up tight on gates if i recall..on the line!!!
                        so yes they do line up tight at times, and the play off which is thier greatest strenghth but they dont do it because they are selfish, thats about as stupid a comment as ive seen recently
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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by arapaho View Post
                          i think you need to start watching more of the games and less analyzing....bailey and bly line up the way they are told and what the game dictates, and i have seen them line up on the wr many times in every game...champ was hurt when he lined up tight on gates if i recall..on the line!!!
                          so yes they do line up tight at times, and the play off which is thier greatest strenghth but they dont do it because they are selfish, thats about as stupid a comment as ive seen recently
                          Ah you beat me to it. It seems we get two or three of these a week.

                          I'll just go ahead and cut and paste what I've said in the past.

                          Originally posted by // / yardo View Post
                          We play a mixture of both. We'll play off the receiver as well as get a bump on him while being in his face.

                          What you guys don't realize is it depends on the down and distance, what the offense is showing and what the offensive strengths are: run vs. pass.

                          Playing bump and run man style coverage with one or two safeties deep is only good for about 3.5 to 4 seconds with GREAT pressure on the QB. During that 4 seconds if the QB doesn't get pressured then it's all for nothing because there will be a receiver open GUARANTEED.

                          What kills us is when QB's get out of the pocket and there's no pursuit. McCown and Young killed us here.

                          The OTHER issue is the fact that we have to commit a safety into the box to protect the run. This kills our defensive backs.

                          Being a defensive back is win all, lose all position. You're the last line of defense and typically you're either going to win or lose no matter what the defensive (coverage) shell is. If you're not getting help from the guys up front people are GOING TO COMPLETE PASSES.

                          This game all starts up front with the big guys. It's a "no brainer" to understand why we're a revolving door with the defensive line.
                          Here's the other thread: http://forums.denverbroncos.com/showthread.php?t=107362

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by SLVR and Black View Post
                            Green Bay also has a guy named Charles Woodson, one of the only true shut down corners in the game. He's not physical, meaning he doesn't do a whole lot of bumping but his ability to stay with a WR and close when he needs to are unmatched in the NFL.
                            If our front seven could be trusted to stop the run on a consistant basis we wouldn't be having this conversation. Champ and Bly are being asked to cover down field and also be the too oft last line of defense against the run. In essence, because of our lack of penatrating and tackling ablility up front, Champ and Bly are playing the outside LB positions in a 4-5 defense. Sounds stupid, is stupid. If we were tougher up front our corners would be free to do what Green Bay's are able to do. But instead our corners have to be ever aware of stretch plays, screen passes, and not-so-rare up the middle run that gets into the secondary. Yes, all corners must worry about the run but our corners have to be worried about it on a consistant basis. Watch the Oakland game. Justin Fargus (sp?) changed that game single handedly because our front seven couldn't stop him consistantly. This led to Champ and Bly having to constantly be aware of both the RB and their WR's. Basically we suck up front and it's staining our secondary!
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                            • #15
                              ^^^ you touched on a few points I had in mind. By committing that 8th(sometimes 9th) player in the box our corners become more exposed because we don't have any help over the top. Add in that both Bly and Bailey have to constantly peak into the backfield even with a stacked front for the run and it's a difficult situation to say the least. All things considered, Bly and Bailey have been really good for us this year.

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