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Good article on Javon Walker

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  • PowderAddict
    replied
    There is nothing I’d like to see more than a healthy Javon Walker. What a matchup nightmare for opposing defenses having Walker, Marshall, Graham and Scheffler/Stokley on the field at the same time would present!

    That said, I don’t know if Walker will EVER be 100% again.

    It is a high risk/high reward situation. I honestly don’t know if I would take that risk. Obviously, for the Broncos, to reduce the risk you lower Walker’s pay, and as Mojo mentioned move everything back on year. Make 2008 another chance for Walker to prove he’s healthy, and make the payday in 2009 worth it to him. This will show how much confidence Walker has in his knee.

    Put the ball in Walker’s court. I don’t want to see him walk by any means, but the Broncos have much bigger needs.

    I like the idea of Berrian taking Walker’s place if the Broncos and Walker do part ways. With Marshall being a big, strong target, and Stokley in the slot, a speedster is all the Broncos would really need, a deep threat. They wouldn’t need a “complete” WR, a deep threat would go a long ways in keeping the opposing defenses “honest”, and open up the field for everyone else.

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  • bronco1263
    replied
    Originally posted by Return of Lava View Post
    Me saying Henry and Young will never be difference makers, is like you saying Walker's knee healing is "unlikely".....just what I think based on what I've seen. For I also play sports and although I've been blessed enough to avoid injury, I have to believe that a knee can heal, and the NFL has seen these types of things before in the medical field.

    History is on the side of the run game, I never said I wouldnt take a run game like we had before. I'd love to have a strong run game and let Walker go. The way the team is set up now, we HAVE to be a passing team. Its not a hard decision, Walker Marshall Stokely Graham and Scheffler...... or Travis Henry and Selvin Young?

    I am not for giving players the starting nod based on contracts (see Travis Henry discussions), but Walker is a clear cut #1 over Marshall if healthy, more experience, and Marshall's head may be starting to get too big imo, he needs to know there are more WR's in the world who can put up numbers. Walker may have a boast-ful attitude as well, but he doesnt taunt.
    We will just have different opinions on our offensive focus - that's cool, though.

    Walker being the "clear cut #1 over Marshall" - that very statement is completely contrary to them earning the title on the field. Because of experience? That's not enough for me, he has to earn it each year.

    Stat Line (sorry that they are only the totals):
    Walker:
    Year G Rec Yds Avg Yds/G Long TD 20+ 40+ 1st FUM SEA AGE

    TOTAL 70 248 3,785 15.3 54.1 83 30 57 15 169 4 6 29

    Marshall:
    TOTAL 29 106 1,445 13.6 49.8 71 8 15 4 73 3 2 23

    From an investment standpoint, recent history (even when healthy), and injury considerations, my primary investment is in BM and secondary investment is in JW.

    Our player statements aren't the same really except that they are both opinions. My opinion is based on experience with athletes that I've known who have had knee injuries. Your opinion is based on hope in the medical professionals. Now, if there are examples of wideouts who have had multiple procedures and then performed, afterward, to Walker's healthy level then I'd be much more encouraged for his future. I just don't know of any.

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  • ndbroncofan07
    replied
    Javon Walker is an amazing player and hope he can stay healthy could you imagine Javon Walker Brandon Marshall and Brandon Stokley that would be dominant

    Leave a comment:


  • Return of Lava
    replied
    Originally posted by bronco1263 View Post
    I'll provide a little context for my opinion (please note that last word). I've worked in 3 different sports industries and competed in another. I've known a LOT of athletes who have had knee issues. Most of these athletes who do not rely on their knees nearly to the extent of an NFL wideout. Athletes that I've seen with multiple procedures on a knee - almost never regain the same performance in that joint. That's all I'm saying regarding the term "unlikely."

    Regarding "giving the #1 receiver" position, I never inferred that we give it to Marshall either. Yes, it was given to BM because Walker coudn't stay healthy, again. How's BM done with that responsibility, by the way? I merely am stating that whoever is in training camp has to earn it. You're stating that it's Walker's title. I simply don't understand that mindset of privilege. He lost the title through injury, now he'll have to earn it back. I think everyone earn's their position on the field and not on a contract. Honestly, I like Walker a lot, I just don't think the risk is worth the investment. I would love to see him return to form and I'll gladly eat those words.

    We'll simply disagree regarding the priority of run vs. pass. I think history is on my side but I understand your point. We'll also have to disagree with your assessment for how easily our defense is going to heal. They can go from
    32nd, last, in the league to top ten with nothing more than familiarity? Too optimistic for me. On the other hand, Denver's currently top ten offense, in many categories, I believe can become elite with nothing more than familiarity and returning starters.

    I love Denver's skill guys and want us to pass more too, but not to the point that we make passing the primary offense. By the way, making a sweeping statement about the future: "Henry and Young will never be difference makers for our offense. " is worthless since there is no way for you to support it. You do not know this so let's leave fortune telling to Julia Brown and Nostradamus.
    Me saying Henry and Young will never be difference makers, is like you saying Walker's knee healing is "unlikely".....just what I think based on what I've seen. For I also play sports and although I've been blessed enough to avoid injury, I have to believe that a knee can heal, and the NFL has seen these types of things before in the medical field.

    History is on the side of the run game, I never said I wouldnt take a run game like we had before. I'd love to have a strong run game and let Walker go. The way the team is set up now, we HAVE to be a passing team. Its not a hard decision, Walker Marshall Stokely Graham and Scheffler...... or Travis Henry and Selvin Young?

    I am not for giving players the starting nod based on contracts (see Travis Henry discussions), but Walker is a clear cut #1 over Marshall if healthy, more experience, and Marshall's head may be starting to get too big imo, he needs to know there are more WR's in the world who can put up numbers. Walker may have a boast-ful attitude as well, but he doesnt taunt.
    Last edited by Return of Lava; 12-23-2007, 02:15 PM.

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  • bronco1263
    replied
    Originally posted by Return of Lava View Post
    If Walker's knee was "unlikely" we wouldnt be having this discussion, there would be no question. What do you mean dont hand him the #1 job, its already his...Marshall's was handed to him, because of Walker's injury. Walker earned it last year from Rod Smith. We'd have 2 dominant receivers and a great slot guy, I never considered Stokely dominant, lol. If we havent becme a passing team, we sure need to wake up. How many games have we seen slip away due to not being able to run to bleed the clock? We have to play to our strengths, Henry and Young will never be difference makers for our offense. Walker and Marshall are difference makers. If we had a more solid run game it would be different. But with our o-line, and our RB's we're not all that solid.

    I know everybody wants to invest more in defense, but in reality, they just need familiarity with each other. We got 3 high draft picks on the D-line plus Dumervil, DJ Williams, Bailey, Bly, Abdullah and either Lynch or Ferguson....the defense is more than capable of being top 10. We were top 10 back when we had Donnie Spragan, Mario Fatafehi, Darius Holland, Kenoy Kennedy, and so on, none are world beaters.
    I'll provide a little context for my opinion (please note that last word). I've worked in 3 different sports industries and competed in another. I've known a LOT of athletes who have had knee issues. Most of these athletes who do not rely on their knees nearly to the extent of an NFL wideout. Athletes that I've seen with multiple procedures on a knee - almost never regain the same performance in that joint. That's all I'm saying regarding the term "unlikely."

    Regarding "giving the #1 receiver" position, I never inferred that we give it to Marshall either. Yes, it was given to BM because Walker coudn't stay healthy, again. How's BM done with that responsibility, by the way? I merely am stating that whoever is in training camp has to earn it. You're stating that it's Walker's title. I simply don't understand that mindset of privilege. He lost the title through injury, now he'll have to earn it back. I think everyone earn's their position on the field and not on a contract. Honestly, I like Walker a lot, I just don't think the risk is worth the investment. I would love to see him return to form and I'll gladly eat those words.

    We'll simply disagree regarding the priority of run vs. pass. I think history is on my side but I understand your point. We'll also have to disagree with your assessment for how easily our defense is going to heal. They can go from
    32nd, last, in the league to top ten with nothing more than familiarity? Too optimistic for me. On the other hand, Denver's currently top ten offense, in many categories, I believe can become elite with nothing more than familiarity and returning starters.

    I love Denver's skill guys and want us to pass more too, but not to the point that we make passing the primary offense. By the way, making a sweeping statement about the future: "Henry and Young will never be difference makers for our offense. " is worthless since there is no way for you to support it. You do not know this so let's leave fortune telling to Julia Brown and Nostradamus.

    Leave a comment:


  • Beast#7
    replied
    Originally posted by Return of Lava View Post
    Where's Lelie this time of year?
    In San Francisco being the #3 WR.

    Leave a comment:


  • mojo0730
    replied
    Originally posted by Superchop7 View Post
    His contract was setup to pay him heavily in 07 and 08, after that, alot less.

    We already have alot invested.

    Roll the dice.
    But '08 is supposed to be his biggest 'pay day', according to Adam Schefter, unless the Broncos decide to cut or trade him at the appropriate time (which is typically after June 1st).

    They ran into these same problems with Brian Griese, Trevor Pryce, and other players they gave big contracts to and then cut them in the middle of their contracts. I suspect (especially based on Adam Schefter's statements) that the Broncos are prepared to cut ties with Walker if needed, and the cap hit won't be as significant as some fans here are speculating.

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  • Superchop7
    replied
    His contract was setup to pay him heavily in 07 and 08, after that, alot less.

    We already have alot invested.

    Roll the dice.

    Leave a comment:


  • Return of Lava
    replied
    Originally posted by bronco1263 View Post
    Hoping Walker's knee heals completely is simply that, hoping. It's unlikely, but I hope it's healthy again too. If 100%, he can be impressive. But you don't just hand him the #1 rec. position - he has to earn that. It would be nice, but you can't expect 3 dominant receivers, that's extremely rare and unrealistic. If having to choose between Walker and Marshall, I would invest in Marshall and try to keep he and Stokely in Denver as long as possible.

    I also don't believe "we've become a passing team." In the league, Denver's rushing ranks 3rd at 4.5 ypc. The passing ranks 6th at 11.7 ypc. I'm all for unpredictably opening up the offense, with the talent on the roster, but superbowl teams run the ball as a higher priority.

    If Walker will restructure for more performance based incentives, then definitely keep him and use his previous guaranteed money elsewhere. If he doesn't restructure and the cap hit can be managed, try to trade him away. My two cents.
    If Walker's knee was "unlikely" we wouldnt be having this discussion, there would be no question. What do you mean dont hand him the #1 job, its already his...Marshall's was handed to him, because of Walker's injury. Walker earned it last year from Rod Smith. We'd have 2 dominant receivers and a great slot guy, I never considered Stokely dominant, lol. If we havent becme a passing team, we sure need to wake up. How many games have we seen slip away due to not being able to run to bleed the clock? We have to play to our strengths, Henry and Young will never be difference makers for our offense. Walker and Marshall are difference makers. If we had a more solid run game it would be different. But with our o-line, and our RB's we're not all that solid.

    I know everybody wants to invest more in defense, but in reality, they just need familiarity with each other. We got 3 high draft picks on the D-line plus Dumervil, DJ Williams, Bailey, Bly, Abdullah and either Lynch or Ferguson....the defense is more than capable of being top 10. We were top 10 back when we had Donnie Spragan, Mario Fatafehi, Darius Holland, Kenoy Kennedy, and so on, none are world beaters.
    Last edited by Return of Lava; 12-23-2007, 09:15 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • mojo0730
    replied
    Originally posted by Ravage!!! View Post
    I completely agree with that. WHEN and IF Walker is healthy, he's the best WR we have on the roster, and the best WR we've had on the Broncos since I can't rmember when.

    But he MUST renegotiate to even have the chance to prove that he is healthy. Even if he renegotiates to a incentive laden contract... so that if he's completely healthy, and remains healthy, he gets the money he would have gotten if he didn't renegotiate. Because right now, knowing his injury history, and the chance of his surgery coming up.. he is NOT worth the 4 million dollar roster bonus. Part of getting the big money, means you have to produce ON the field, and not just have the potential to be really good.

    He MUST renegotiate in order for him to be on this team.
    A rare circumstance in which ravage and I see eye-to-eye 100%.

    No Denver fan wants to get rid of a healthy Javon Walker. But that's just it - he's not healthy. After this season, it's clearly evident that the Broncos have desperate needs in positions other than WR. I know you believe we have the players in place to have a top 10 defense, lava. But that's an opinion - not a fact. The fact is, the defense we have now is one of the worst in the NFL, and historically, one of the worst in Broncos history. No way you can just sit on that and move it over to next season. The Broncos have to continue improving on the defensive line and with their safeties. On top of that, you can bet players like Scheffler and Marshall will soon be commanding more money for their performances. Marshall strikes me as a guy who may even hold out soon, especially if he tears it up in these final two games. If that happens, do you keep the younger, healthier Marshall who appears to be becoming one of the best receivers in the NFL and someone Cutler appears to fully trust, or do you keep Javon Walker, who will be entering his 8th season and is coming off two major knee surgeries in 3 seasons, and may need a third?

    I want to keep Walker, but it has to be on a restructured, incentive-based contract - not the one he currently has. We have too many other areas of need for us to pay a player that much money with a serious knee problem.

    Leave a comment:


  • bronco1263
    replied
    Originally posted by Return of Lava View Post
    We need to keep Javon Walker, no matter what. His injury will heal by next year, and with the contract we gave him, he needs to be the true #1 WR. Marshall and Stokely will be severe threats to compliment. Anyway, I have no doubt Walker would produce when he plays. When We gave him this contract, we didnt count on Marshall being as good as he is, but Marshall cant be that expensive next year based on his "4th round draft pick" contract. So I say we give Walker next year to produce over a year, because in reality he took the #1 WR away from Rod last year, and looked good the first 2 games this year, I think he will be a true #1 WR for us.

    I wish he wouldnt talk to the media like he is. But I do like his attitude, its on him to back it up with hugh numbers, and hopefully wins.

    We've become a passing team
    Hoping Walker's knee heals completely is simply that, hoping. It's unlikely, but I hope it's healthy again too. If 100%, he can be impressive. But you don't just hand him the #1 rec. position - he has to earn that. It would be nice, but you can't expect 3 dominant receivers, that's extremely rare and unrealistic. If having to choose between Walker and Marshall, I would invest in Marshall and try to keep he and Stokely in Denver as long as possible.

    I also don't believe "we've become a passing team." In the league, Denver's rushing ranks 3rd at 4.5 ypc. The passing ranks 6th at 11.7 ypc. I'm all for unpredictably opening up the offense, with the talent on the roster, but superbowl teams run the ball as a higher priority.

    If Walker will restructure for more performance based incentives, then definitely keep him and use his previous guaranteed money elsewhere. If he doesn't restructure and the cap hit can be managed, try to trade him away. My two cents.

    Leave a comment:


  • The|Snake#16
    replied
    The NFL is about money, any way that you look at it. No one wants to give up their share of the pie, and Javon is right that it's not really fair or neccesary to have a paycut. I personally don't want him going anywhere, with Javon/Marshall/Stokley/Scheffler/Graham/Cutler I think our offense is gonna go bananas next year. And let's be honest, no one would want to pick up his contract in a trade, plus cutting him hurts more than it helps.

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  • stnzed
    replied
    Ravage makes a great point......

    ......both Walker AND Henry would make more money if they restructured than if they were cut and tried to sign elsewhere.

    What's also a significant point is, Denver took a pretty big gamble on both of these players, it just didn't work out for them.

    Restructuring their contract may not be what they want, but it may be the smart thing to do......

    Leave a comment:


  • beastlyskronk
    replied
    First let me say I didn't read all of the posts so I don't know if someone has already said this.

    If Javon Walker believes so firmly in himself like he says why not just renegotiate the contract to where he gets the same bonus next year and move every other bonus a year later thus essentially giving him an extra year on his contract.

    I truly don't believe Walker does believe he can come back and be the player he once was and that is why I think he won't try to renegotiate.

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  • Peerless
    replied
    Originally posted by Ravage!!! View Post
    welll.. but are you judging his healthy or his unhealthy self? I mean last year, he was MUCH more than just a speed guy. When Walker is healthy, he's the best WR we have on the roster.

    But I don't know what kind of guy Berriman is. I thought he was just a speedster, and if thats the case, we don't need to spend big bucks on just a speed man.
    I'm judging Walker as his unhealthy self.

    He's not 100%, in fact I don't believe he's 75% like he stated.

    Berrian, at 6-1 and 185 lbs is more then just a speedster. I have the "fortune" to watch Bear games where I am, and with terrible quarterbacks that the Bears have, he seems to make the plays in the passing game.

    The question is how much do we want to pay him? Or even if Walker will do anything to his contract? Because I don't want to pay a player 9million or whatever it is to play for 2 games and sit the rest.

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