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Broncos Need a Franchise RB to Succeed. Henry is Not That Guy.

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  • Darth Tyger
    replied
    Originally posted by BroncoKazuki View Post
    Tyger do us all a favor and stop trying to Hijack this thread with your anti-bates propaganda.

    The reason I'm defending him is because he's new to Denver and he's new to the players. None of the guys we have on our Defense have ever played a 3-4 system nor played with Bates as a Defense coord.

    We kicked out Coyer because the 4-3 system wasnt working and we were not putting pressure up on the front.

    Hell im glade we did ok... not good.. nor decent but ok with a new Defense coord we could have had alot more meltdowns but we didn't. Sure im upset but im not ready to put him out to pasture. Coyer had ample time in Denver and thats the reason why we kicked him out...


    Now onto our Running back debate.

    If anything in our top 6 picks will be an RB we may even go as far as shipping off Henry and Mike Bell to Miami who needs a RB. We get picks and Miami gets leftovers of course we wont aim for for a RB in the top 5 mostly because their agents will expect a ton of concessions for their clients. Top 6-10 would be the best position not only cus TD was chosen in this range but i think alot of players who think they could have been number 1 didnt get their fair shake so it would spur them to do better for the team to question why they didnt get put up higher.

    I think our first top 5 picks should be spent on 2 OT (perf 290-310 lbs and smart) and 1 DT who can command the front and 1 DE who can become the hammer. Then go out and get another good RB and WR .
    As well as a good Punter. then finish it off by getting a Safety to be Lynch's understudy. Next year we can go and get good LB's to complemnt Dj's talents.

    Do "us" a favor???? You speaking for all of Bronco nation there, Sparky, ...or you just lonely and got a mouse in your pocket?

    Do yourself "a favor" and take off your blinders. Half of Denver wants this guy shipped out in the next Federal Express. Not my fault the chump installed a "scheme" that the rest of the NFL walks all over and then laughs in our faces. It's always fun watching the guy keeping digging in his dry well though. For a while, anyway....

    Haven't mastered the art of responding without a personal attack, I see. Perhaps there is something personal you wish to air or discuss?

    Leave a comment:


  • Return of Lava
    replied
    Originally posted by No.1Fan View Post
    Favorite Mile High Memory: Rod's one-handed grab in the endzone against the Steelers in '04
    Wasnt that with steve buereline throwing?

    Leave a comment:


  • Return of Lava
    replied
    For us to return to dominance in the run game, we need a RB with size. That means height AND weight. All these 5'9 230....5'11 200..RB's will not cut it. The only back I felt had the decent amount of size to be a franchise back is Mike Anderson and Ron Dayne. Mike Anderson i dont think was agile enough to be dominant, but Dayne would have been nice to see. What was TD's measurable 6'0 230 or so? What 2,00 yard back was smaller than 215 and shorter than 5'10? Unless we find a back with the moves of a Barry Sanders, but thats very rare.

    Then we build up the O-line to resemble the past lineup of Tony Jones, Mark Schlareth, Tom Nalen, Brian Habib, and Harry Swayne (I think thats how it was).....a strong power line I dont like this "light and quick" offensive lineman thing anymore, we need POWER lineman. I've seen enough of this whole "great between the 20's, but stuffed in the red zone" offensive line.

    Leave a comment:


  • No.1Fan
    replied
    Before Blaming Bronco Backs

    Before you blame Henry (who has had better years with worst teams) I think we should remember two things: for the majority of this season, we have had ONE returning starter on the offensive line. Ben Hamilton is the nastiest, and most physically talented lineman we have--out for the season. Tommy has been the real "quarterback" of our run game for last decade--missed the last half of the season. Lepsis is the only consistent protection we have had, and he has been banged up! Remember, it's been the O-line that has allowed Gary, Anderson, and Droughns to succeed. The system is brilliant, though defenses are catching up.
    Second, our teams personnel turnover has been flabbergasting (of which some/all credit due to Shanny). You can't expect consistency from all "1st year" players (in the system that is). Returning starters from last year still playing: Lepsis....and Javon (I guess). That is Mind blowing!! Unless I have overlooked someone, that is exactly 1 and 1/2 of 11. Yeah, good luck. Defense is about the same.
    While this year has been disappointing, I look forward to next year with Henry and Young in the backfield. Go Broncos!
    Favorite Mile High Memory: Rod's one-handed grab in the endzone against the Steelers in '04

    Leave a comment:


  • Ravage!!!
    replied
    Originally posted by mojo0730 View Post
    I don't fault Shanahan for not wasting a whole lot of picks and money on the offensive line. The fact is it's so hard and difficult to build a really great offensive line that doesn't get plagued with injuries and can both run and pass block. Shanahan (with the assistance of Alex Gibbs) found a system that can virtually guarantee him a 1,000 yard rusher and, so long as he has a mobile quarterback, usually protects the QB. All this, and he doesn't have to pay millions and spend draft picks on big linemen.

    That said, I do think the NFL has done a lot to prohibit teams from utilizing zone blocking to it's full extent, and defenses have caught on and adapted. I have seen an effort on Shanahan's part to get bigger up front. But it's a difficult process to build an offensive line, and I can't hammer Shanahan too hard if he struggles with this, because many teams do.
    I dont' think teams have adapted any more to the zone blocking scheme as they would any other system.

    The NFL will never eliminate the zone blocking. That would mean eliminating cut blocks, and they just can't do it. That will never happen.

    Honestly... if Schlereth says that about the zone blocking... Mark can kiss my ass. Thats absolutely crap thing to say, and is complete BS. The only one taking cheap shots... is him.

    Leave a comment:


  • kratos_godofwar
    replied
    I'm all for it as long as it's Rashad Mendenhall. He was born to be a Broncos running back. Very explosive once he hits the hole and breaks tackles.

    Leave a comment:


  • Sniptilla
    replied
    Broncos have had little trouble getting some very good backs over last few years. Henry is not the answer though. I could never understand why the Broncos get a good back and then trade him, get another good back and trade him...on and on.....Heck if the Broncos land another good back, they will probably just trade him after 1-2 years.

    Leave a comment:


  • RC278430
    replied
    I disagree with the argument that Denver should pick a RB early in the draft (within the first three rounds) for the following reasons:

    1. Running backs in the NFL are not durable. Just look around the league. The only good back that has not missed a game this season is LT. All the other backs have missed games.
    2. A great running back is only as good as his O-line. You can be a good back with an average O-line, but to be great, you need a good O-line.
    3. Denver has historically produced good RB's in their system, and we have guys on the roster that can continue that trend.
    4. The top teams in the league have shifted to spread-out passing offensive attack. We either get on board with the system, or we do not watch the Broncos play in January or February for years to come.

    Leave a comment:


  • mojo0730
    replied
    Originally posted by DancingHorsey View Post
    I don't understand why we can't have bigger, stronger linemen who can still zone block. The problem is that Shanahan clearly doesn't want to spend the first day picks it would take to make it happen.
    I don't fault Shanahan for not wasting a whole lot of picks and money on the offensive line. The fact is it's so hard and difficult to build a really great offensive line that doesn't get plagued with injuries and can both run and pass block. Shanahan (with the assistance of Alex Gibbs) found a system that can virtually guarantee him a 1,000 yard rusher and, so long as he has a mobile quarterback, usually protects the QB. All this, and he doesn't have to pay millions and spend draft picks on big linemen.

    That said, I do think the NFL has done a lot to prohibit teams from utilizing zone blocking to it's full extent, and defenses have caught on and adapted. I have seen an effort on Shanahan's part to get bigger up front. But it's a difficult process to build an offensive line, and I can't hammer Shanahan too hard if he struggles with this, because many teams do.

    Leave a comment:


  • mojo0730
    replied
    Originally posted by stnzed View Post
    And Mark Schlereth would be 100% correct, imo, I've been whining about this for 7-8 years......

    Well he's 99% correct, I see no reason a bigger, stronger, elite athlete can't excel in this zoneblocking system. (Actually, I've never heard Schlereth say Denver needs to dump this system)

    I've just seen the Texans do it with bigger, stronger average athletes.

    There is just no way you can convince me that Jordan Gross or Alan Faneca can't excel in this system......Stacey Andrews is an elite athlete and he'll come cheap, give him a shot......

    Or Ryan Clady......Michael Oher......Tony Hills......Alex Boone......Jake Long......Heath Benedict is an elite athlete you can get later in the draft, but those are the picks Denver likes to save for the athletic 280LBer's......
    I do see that Denver is getting bigger up front, especially this season. And given Lepsis' struggles this year and Nalen's injury, it may be something of a necessity for Denver rather than a choice.

    As far as Mark Schlereth wanting us to dump our system...he's stated that he thinks the system is dirty and that he did it because that's what he was told to do, but that he believes the NFL should ban the system because of the dirty tactics involved. On Mondays on 950 The Fan, he frequently brings up the need for Denver to get bigger guys up front and ditch the zone-blocking system. He said that Atlanta has had trouble scoring in the red zone since implementing the system, as well.

    Leave a comment:


  • Superchop7
    replied
    That being said, I like Jonathan Stewart. Insanely strong, big, fast, tough to bring down.

    Leave a comment:


  • BroncoKazuki
    replied
    Originally posted by Darth Tyger View Post
    I disagree....our problem is that we have 1 linebacker on the entire team. But we will see who is right and who is wrong....eh?

    By the way.....EVERY TEAM but a small lucky handlful have D-line "issues"...that's the biggest cop-out in NFL-fandom. Why did you ignore what I said about the dearth of DL in the NFL thanks to the NBA? Repeating mantra's that are obvious isn't part of the solution.

    Tackling is.

    We need LB'ers.

    Tyger do us all a favor and stop trying to Hijack this thread with your anti-bates propaganda.

    The reason I'm defending him is because he's new to Denver and he's new to the players. None of the guys we have on our Defense have ever played a 3-4 system nor played with Bates as a Defense coord.

    We kicked out Coyer because the 4-3 system wasnt working and we were not putting pressure up on the front.

    Hell im glade we did ok... not good.. nor decent but ok with a new Defense coord we could have had alot more meltdowns but we didn't. Sure im upset but im not ready to put him out to pasture. Coyer had ample time in Denver and thats the reason why we kicked him out...


    Now onto our Running back debate.

    If anything in our top 6 picks will be an RB we may even go as far as shipping off Henry and Mike Bell to Miami who needs a RB. We get picks and Miami gets leftovers of course we wont aim for for a RB in the top 5 mostly because their agents will expect a ton of concessions for their clients. Top 6-10 would be the best position not only cus TD was chosen in this range but i think alot of players who think they could have been number 1 didnt get their fair shake so it would spur them to do better for the team to question why they didnt get put up higher.

    I think our first top 5 picks should be spent on 2 OT (perf 290-310 lbs and smart) and 1 DT who can command the front and 1 DE who can become the hammer. Then go out and get another good RB and WR .
    As well as a good Punter. then finish it off by getting a Safety to be Lynch's understudy. Next year we can go and get good LB's to complemnt Dj's talents.

    Leave a comment:


  • SlyBronco
    replied
    Originally posted by JohnElwayAce07 View Post
    The thing with Denver is that anybody can run in Denver.

    We don't need to use a 1st/2nd round draft pick on a RB. Terrell Davis was a 6th rounder...

    We need to focus on our offense. Henry is adequate for now, and so is Selvin. Our Rushing offense is still in the top 10. And Jay Cutler's arm can always compensate.

    DEFENSE is what we need to focus on. Not a RB...
    The biggest thing is consistancy in the running game, witch has been hurt with injuries. In turn that hurts the passing. Not too mention all the first year starters and First year with the team players. It all factors in to whats happened to us this season. I look forward to next year.

    Leave a comment:


  • JohnElwayAce07
    replied
    The thing with Denver is that anybody can run in Denver.

    We don't need to use a 1st/2nd round draft pick on a RB. Terrell Davis was a 6th rounder...

    We need to focus on our offense. Henry is adequate for now, and so is Selvin. Our Rushing offense is still in the top 10. And Jay Cutler's arm can always compensate.

    DEFENSE is what we need to focus on. Not a RB...

    Leave a comment:


  • SlyBronco
    replied
    Originally posted by Darth Tyger View Post
    I disagree....our problem is that we have 1 linebacker on the entire team. But we will see who is right and who is wrong....eh?

    By the way.....EVERY TEAM but a small lucky handlful have D-line "issues"...that's the biggest cop-out in NFL-fandom. Why did you ignore what I said about the dearth of DL in the NFL thanks to the NBA? Repeating mantra's that are obvious isn't part of the solution.

    Tackling is.

    We need LB'ers.
    Football is a game won in the trenches, its as true now as it ever was. The other QB has all day throwing the ball, Thats why VY and others have looked like Pro Bowlers agianst us. Our LB's are takeing on 300LB linemen down field. I wouldnt mind finding a stud LB but I still think the problem is the Line.

    Sure Dum gets there, but with Champ and Dre at CB someone should have time to get there.

    Leave a comment:

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