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Question: what about Bates?

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  • #16
    Originally posted by silkamilkamonic View Post
    You mean Denver hasn't been doing that for the last 5+ years?

    If they haven't, their idiots. If they have, they have been unable to figure it out.
    5+ years?

    were we not in the afc championship 2 years ago?

    Besides that, this is the only year we've been embarrassing on defense.
    Last edited by Return of Lava; 12-23-2007, 12:52 PM.
    dont let him pull dat move on ya, dont let him pull that move.......................oh no dats da move! TOUCHDOWN!!!

    I tried to warn ya.

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by Return of Lava View Post
      5+ years?

      were we not in the afc championship 2 years ago?
      And then lost a disappointing game, at home.

      2 years later our defense is arguably at an all time low.

      I'm not interested in using quick fixes to have 1 great year to get to the AFC Championship game. I would much rather build something that's going to hang around for a while. Much in the same sense as say Tony Dungy has built that defense in Indianapolis from one of the laughing stocks to the NFL to where they are now.

      It's just too bad we don't have him in Denver to fix our godforsaken defense that seems to be backpedaling to one of the NFL's worst.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by silkamilkamonic View Post
        And then lost a disappointing game, at home.

        2 years later our defense is arguably at an all time low.

        I'm not interested in using quick fixes to have 1 great year to get to the AFC Championship game. I would much rather build something that's going to hang around for a while. Much in the same sense as say Tony Dungy has built that defense in Indianapolis from one of the laughing stocks to the NFL to where they are now.

        It's just too bad we don't have him in Denver to fix our godforsaken defense that seems to be backpedaling to one of the NFL's worst.
        Wait wait..... their defense was one of the WORST to stop the run all last year, and struggled terribly until their safety got back in the lineup. Lets not exaggerate how good the Colts defense is.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Ravage!!! View Post
          Wait wait..... their defense was one of the WORST to stop the run all last year, and struggled terribly until their safety got back in the lineup. Lets not exaggerate how good the Colts defense is.
          Now that's an impact player. Bob Sanders. You're right, they were a laughing stock. When Bob Sanders came back, they not only turned it around, but they carried a hapless offensive team throughout the playoffs and on to a SuperBowl. Indy had a better offensive performance in the SuperBowl, and 1 good half against the Patriots, but they were driven by their defense, who was driven by Bob Sanders.

          Champ Bailey is better at his position than Bob Sanders is. But a CB cannot be an impact player like a S can. It's been proven in the past, and it will continue to be proven. I wish all the moeny that we have spent in our secondary would have gone more for an impact player at the safety position like Bob Sanders, and I don't feel that's a slight to Champ Bailey in the least.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by silkamilkamonic View Post
            Now that's an impact player. Bob Sanders. You're right, they were a laughing stock. When Bob Sanders came back, they not only turned it around, but they carried a hapless offensive team throughout the playoffs and on to a SuperBowl. Indy had a better offensive performance in the SuperBowl, and 1 good half against the Patriots, but they were driven by their defense, who was driven by Bob Sanders.

            Champ Bailey is better at his position than Bob Sanders is. But a CB cannot be an impact player like a S can. It's been proven in the past, and it will continue to be proven. I wish all the moeny that we have spent in our secondary would have gone more for an impact player at the safety position like Bob Sanders, and I don't feel that's a slight to Champ Bailey in the least.
            You are right. A safety is in the middle of the field, and is a much more impact player on the defense. It was Shanahan's ability to take away the GB safety that allowed us to RUN TD down their throats during the SB.

            Bob Sanders is a stud for sure.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by silkamilkamonic View Post
              Reading comprehension goes a long way sometimes.
              Dude, you wrote: "It pains me to say it, but Denver should do them a favor and trade them. Get them out of our garbage defense."

              Denver is already doing "them a favor" paying them multiple millions of dollars to play a football game. If you want to feel bad for these guys, go ahead, but there are a lot of people in this world a lot more deserving of your sympathy.

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              • #22
                The problem with Denver's defense is they lack the personnel to run Bates' system.

                He tried to get things to work with three defensive line selections in this past draft. Obviously, things still aren't working. You pick players to fit into your scheme, you don't adjust your scheme to fit your players. Unfortunately, since our players are either too stupid to grasp the scheme or just don't fit - we had to adjust. Cover 3, Eight Man in the Box. What a DELIGHT. . . not.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by silkamilkamonic View Post
                  And then lost a disappointing game, at home.

                  2 years later our defense is arguably at an all time low.

                  I'm not interested in using quick fixes to have 1 great year to get to the AFC Championship game. I would much rather build something that's going to hang around for a while. Much in the same sense as say Tony Dungy has built that defense in Indianapolis from one of the laughing stocks to the NFL to where they are now.

                  It's just too bad we don't have him in Denver to fix our godforsaken defense that seems to be backpedaling to one of the NFL's worst.
                  yeah well Champ was a part of that defense in 2005, adn he let a INT drop through his fingers who knows what would have happened after that.

                  You sound pretty depressed about the defense, but this is the only year its been bad like this. We've been top 10 i would guess at least 7 of the 9 years since the superbowl. Its bad now, but we still have stars we're not bad on paper, we just need to have chemistry and play team defense instead of individual defense.

                  Mike Shanahan will never have a dominant defense like '00 Ravens and '02 Bucs, he is an offensive guy he needs a power run game then i think Shanny will return to greatness and mastermind status.
                  Last edited by Return of Lava; 12-23-2007, 02:31 PM.
                  dont let him pull dat move on ya, dont let him pull that move.......................oh no dats da move! TOUCHDOWN!!!

                  I tried to warn ya.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Okay, lets look at the problems, we as a Bronco organization, are facing.

                    First, according to my knowledge of Bates defensive scheme, you clog the middle with 2 huge DT with speed rushers on the ends. You have fast, smart LBs who fill the correct gaps. Your corners must have the ability to play very good man to man defense, while your safties roam the secondary? Is that about right?

                    Okay, we have excellent depth at CBs. You would be hard pressed to find a better CB duo or trio than Bailey, Bly, and Foxworth. Throw in Paymah, and I think this group is set. While I think Bly has done a good job for us, I still would rather have Darrent with us, speaking of football terms--think he was a better tackler--and of course, just having him alive and safe. But there we go, CBs -- Denver is set.

                    I also think we have good DEs. Wouldn't mind bringing in another player, either through FA or Draft, but I'm really excited about Dumervil, Crowder, and Moss. I believe we can affort to leave this position alone this offseason and allow these young players to grow.

                    Also, I think MLB is set. I think DJ has played well at this position, and if we want to keep his athletic ability on our team, we will leave him there. If we were able to get someone better than him at MLB(who?), then we could move him back to OLB at the Will position. NO MORE SLB. I think those were his words.

                    Now, let's look at the problem areas.

                    DT -- Thomas is still growing. Does he fit the system of Bates? He's big, but from what I understood, he was more of a Gerrad Warren or Warren Sapp type player. I didn't think those fit Bates mold. But, for arguement's sake, let's say he does. We still need another DT that will stop the run. Drafting one can set us up for the future, but as has been said by many, DT is one of the hardest positions for a rookie to succeed at. So, while if one that appears to be a good choice is available, I might love the choice, I'd also like to see us pick up a good one in FA. Haynesworth has had troubles in this league, but doesn't he fit the Bate's mold? He is a stud against the run. Are there any others out there available. What about Jacksonville or Chicago. They seem to always have depth on the DL, and pretty good depth to beat. Will there be any good DTs available this offeseason? If there is, you can look for us to be targeting them.

                    OLB -- Ian is out for the rest of the season. He's had what has been described as many as a down year. And despite his helmet-coming-off-hits, Webster doesn't strike me as a great OLB. Lance Briggs anyone? It's gonna be expensive, no doubt, but if two out of three of your LB corp is as athletic as DJ and Lance, you can't help but get better at defending the run. Especially if we can get better at the DT position. Plus, Briggs, if I remember correctly, was pretty decent at blitzing the QB. So, we keep Ian or Nate, maybe even both(although, if we brought in Briggs, Gold would probably be cut for salary reasons), and draft another OLB in the 3rd - 5th rounds, depending on what is available.

                    S - Lynch is a great leader for this team. But he has definitely lost a step. He has already stated that he's doesn't see himself as a backup in this league, and understandably so. But if we are gonna use Bates scheme, we need Safties that can cover some ground. Fergeuson is just a poor man's Lynch. Abdullah is interesting. I think he possess more speed than either Fergy or Lynch, is younger, and can lay down the wood when hitting the offensive player. So we need another good safty to match up with him. Bob Sanders? Ken Hamlin? What about Wilson from NY? We have tinkered with Foxworth at Saftey, but in my opinion, he lacks the size one desires from that position. Plus, he definitely considers himself a CB. However, if he would be willing to play saftey instead of corner(don't really see this happening), we might not need to address this in FA, which would allow us a better chance to land the other two I mentioned.

                    So, could we get Haynseworth, Briggs, and Sanders? All three of them? Not likely, especially with the competition for each player. But one or two would really help.

                    So, what could Denver be targeting in this year's draft?

                    Look for DT, LB, S, OL, and RB.

                    We haven't taken a RB in while(last two years RFA), but we always go after one. We will address the defensive side of the ball with what has happened here this past season. Depending on talent, I would love to see us go DT, LB, S with our first 3 picks. And you know, with the key OL injuries this year, that we will once again be looking for depth there. Possibly another KR/PR as well.

                    Well, just my :2cents:

                    Any input would be nice.
                    Personal goals: GOAL WEIGHT = 250lbs
                    Weight loss needed for FGW = 120 lbs
                    Weight lost so far: - 24 lbs

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