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Shanahan needs to hand over his control and just coach the team

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  • #46
    Originally posted by jhns View Post
    Are you seriously trying to tell me that other teams have changed as much as the Broncos and that any team relies on as many young guys as we do? Here I will make it easy for you. Screw the young guy talk. Show me a single team in the league that has the personell turnover that the Broncos have had the last 2 seasons. This team can't have a worse record than ours because that would defeat the point. Just find 1, ONE, a single one team that has even near our player turnover. When you go look, you will see how informed your opinion is.
    Well let's see...the Pats have an all new WR corps from 1-5, a new RB a new Kicker a new D coordinator and O coordinator. The Colts have lost Freeney, Harrison, have a new kicker a new rookie WR etc.. The Broncos are not the only team to lose/gain players in the NFL. There are teams who have done definitely worse than the Broncos as you know, but there are also teams who have done better. Who is in charge of the personnel turnover anyway? I am not saying that the coach should be fired, but I can see the argument for it.

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    • #47
      When the team that Shanahan is building makes it to the playoffs next year, I will be sure to repost all of your guys' hate toward him when you jump back on his johnson.

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      • #48
        Originally posted by jhns View Post
        When the team that Shanahan is building makes it to the playoffs next year, I will be sure to repost all of your guys' hate toward him when you jump back on his johnson.
        Hold on a second!! I never once said I hate the guy.I have met him many times and he is a nice man. I don't see why people can't argue the point of the teams suuden leap into mediocrity without you saying I hate the guy. And what happens if they don't make it into the playoffs next year? Are you jumping off his johnson?

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        • #49
          Originally posted by Bronco51 View Post
          But the flip side is to say that the Cowboys have been to the playoffs 3 out of the last 4 seasons......with 2 different coaches(Parcells and Wade freaking Phillips)!!! The niners made it to the playoffs with Garcia and Owens......with a different coach(Mariucci). So there is evidence that those teams made it to the playoffs again, but with different coaches. So I can't buy that argument. If it's proven that a coach can't win after losing a HOF QB, why do the Broncos keep giving Shanahan opportunities to try if the proof says it's futile to do so? If we are going to look at the Bills and Niners as a blueprint, then it looks like the Broncos have a dismal future....no matter who is coaching.
          And the Broncos have been in the playoff more often than the Cowboys since they have won their back to back superbowls. The Cowboys have had a longer time to rebuild since winning their last superbowl as well.

          So do you see the analogy? In less than 10 years, the Broncos have been back to the playoffs much more regularly, and they were 60 minutes from the superbowl. That’s something the Cowboys have not accomplished, in a longer timeframe! Or the 49ers, or the Bills, Dolphins (who never won 1 SB despite having one of the most prolific passing attacks in NFL history), or any other team that enjoyed the continued success the Broncos enjoyed through much of the 80’s and 90’s.

          Shanahan has outperformed every other team in similar circumstances. And not just barely. How many times have the 49’ers made it to the playoffs since losing their top talent? Have they played in the NFC championship game?

          Obviously the goal is to win superbowls. 32 teams are chasing this goal. I firmly believe Shanahan give the Broncos the best shot to reach this goal. Again, when you compare similar circumstances (understand, the Broncos do not exist in a vacuum, they are competing with 31 other teams for the same available talent), Shanahan outperforms any other coach/coaches out there.

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          • #50
            Originally posted by Bronco51 View Post
            Well let's see...the Pats have an all new WR corps from 1-5, a new RB a new Kicker a new D coordinator and O coordinator. The Colts have lost Freeney, Harrison, have a new kicker a new rookie WR etc.. The Broncos are not the only team to lose/gain players in the NFL. There are teams who have done definitely worse than the Broncos as you know, but there are also teams who have done better. Who is in charge of the personnel turnover anyway? I am not saying that the coach should be fired, but I can see the argument for it.
            Umm, that isn't answering my question. So you name some teams that changed a few players? That is not even close to what the Broncos have done. I don't even know how else to comment on that response because of this. You are kidding yourself right now.

            You know why we started rebuilding? Obviously you don't so let me educate you a little. Well once upon a time we had a team that was filled with average talent but was coached by a great leader. This team went 13-3 in the regular season only to get beat in the AFCCG by a streaking Steelers team. Well, after this 13-3 failure of a season, the entire Bronco population rose up and made their voices heard. Now the leader had a choice to make, what to do?

            Well guess what. He went out and got us our franchise QB. Some young studs that look like they can be the future of this league. They got some veterans to teach the young players and hopefully keep the team competitive during this transition.

            The veterans didn't work so now the team is going to have to rely on it's other option of building more through the draft. You want to know what that means? It is going to take some time. They are not going to take over the league in their first and second years. The teams you are talking about have a ton of veterans that have been on those teams for many years. They have their stars already in place and are replacing weaker talent. We replaced ALL of our talent. Those places replace a single lineman at a time in the starting spots, not the entire thing as we where forced to do (on o, almost all because of injury).

            So what is it that you guys really wanted. Us to remain with the team we had and see how much Mike can coach average players or do you want him to continue to rebuild? You have cried for both at different times now. Not that you have a choice on what will happen since he has already rebuilt the team.

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            • #51
              Originally posted by jhns View Post
              Umm, that isn't answering my question. So you name some teams that changed a few players? That is not even close to what the Broncos have done. I don't even know how else to comment on that response because of this. You are kidding yourself right now.

              You know why we started rebuilding? Obviously you don't so let me educate you a little. Well once upon a time we had a team that was filled with average talent but was coached by a great leader. This team went 13-3 in the regular season only to get beat in the AFCCG by a streaking Steelers team. Well, after this 13-3 failure of a season, the entire Bronco population rose up and made their voices heard. Now the leader had a choice to make, what to do?

              Well guess what. He went out and got us our franchise QB. Some young studs that look like they can be the future of this league. They got some veterans to teach the young players and hopefully keep the team competitive during this transition.

              The veterans didn't work so now the team is going to have to rely on it's other option of building more through the draft. You want to know what that means? It is going to take some time. They are not going to take over the league in their first and second years. The teams you are talking about have a ton of veterans that have been on those teams for many years. They have their stars already in place and are replacing weaker talent. We replaced ALL of our talent. Those places replace a single lineman at a time in the starting spots, not the entire thing as we where forced to do (on o, almost all because of injury).

              So what is it that you guys really wanted. Us to remain with the team we had and see how much Mike can coach average players or do you want him to continue to rebuild? You have cried for both at different times now. Not that you have a choice on what will happen since he has already rebuilt the team.
              Well we will just have to differ on why the team is rebuilding. I personally do not think that was Shanahan's goal at all. And as far as educated?? What coach has a 13-3 team 60 minutes from the Super Bowl.......and decides to rebuild????? No way you can say that was the plan. Now it's your turn to be educated. He wanted to make that 13-3 team BETTER not 9-7 and 6-9. You said it yourself, the veteran talent HE BROUGHT IN DID NOT WORK OUT!! Who is to blame for that? And since when was 13-3 a failure of a season?? How on any planet would you consider what has gone on the past 2 seasons any better than 13-3 and 60 minutes from the SB??
              And another question. If that 13-3 team was coached up so much to be 13-3, what has happened since? And if you say the talent isn't as good, I ask, who is responsible for that? Bowlen??? So yes, Shanahan is a good coach, but he can only coach the talent he has, which by the way, he is responsible for getting. So make your choice, letting him coach this talent he brings in, or just coaching. I prefer to let him just coach.

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              • #52
                Originally posted by Bronco51 View Post
                Hold on a second!! I never once said I hate the guy.I have met him many times and he is a nice man. I don't see why people can't argue the point of the teams suuden leap into mediocrity without you saying I hate the guy. And what happens if they don't make it into the playoffs next year? Are you jumping off his johnson?
                Oh, I will never jump off his johnson. You can guarantee that!

                I don't mean hate him personally, I meant hateing on his coaching (aka talking crap about it). You as well as others are all making him out to be a bad coach. You are acting as though there is a single coach in the NFL that could have done better. If you think that, you are being a hater. I am also talking to those that are saying he should be fired. I know many don't hate him personally for his coaching though.

                The biggest part is that everyone decides to do this now. If you wanted him fired, this is the absolute worst time. We are right in the middle of rebuilding his new team. He is bringing in guys to fit his styles. If you guys wanted to cry about a new coach, you should have done it before the rebuilding process. Now that you have all waited until the middle of it, I don't see how we could fire him. The only option now is to let him finish the team and see what his plan is. If the team doesn't get good in the next season or two, we may change coaches. If we do that though, be prepared for some more rebuilding and a lot of 2-6 win seasons. Not just 2 every 15 years. This is why I say this. You all want to fire him now, not before he rebuilds, not after you see the result, but smack dab in the middle of the rebuild.

                Obviously though, every team is great in periods of player transition.

                By the way, this is not the transition that every team is going through. If you even say that again, I will just add you to ignore like mojo. I don't know what NFL you are looking at but you should count our starters on the team from 2 years ago and then do it for every other NFL team. You will see how silly you are being about the turnover.

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                • #53
                  I think most of us are missing the point that the original poster isn't advocating that Shanahan be fired. Rather, he's simply stating he thinks Shanahan should relinquish his VP position and focus completely on coaching.

                  To me, I don't know why even his strongest, most stubborn supporters would necessarily disagree with that...
                  sigpic

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                  • #54
                    Originally posted by jhns View Post
                    Oh, I will never jump off his johnson. You can guarantee that!

                    I don't mean hate him personally, I meant hateing on his coaching (aka talking crap about it). You as well as others are all making him out to be a bad coach. You are acting as though there is a single coach in the NFL that could have done better. If you think that, you are being a hater. I am also talking to those that are saying he should be fired. I know many don't hate him personally for his coaching though.

                    The biggest part is that everyone decides to do this now. If you wanted him fired, this is the absolute worst time. We are right in the middle of rebuilding his new team. He is bringing in guys to fit his styles. If you guys wanted to cry about a new coach, you should have done it before the rebuilding process. Now that you have all waited until the middle of it, I don't see how we could fire him. The only option now is to let him finish the team and see what his plan is. If the team doesn't get good in the next season or two, we may change coaches. If we do that though, be prepared for some more rebuilding and a lot of 2-6 win seasons. Not just 2 every 15 years. This is why I say this. You all want to fire him now, not before he rebuilds, not after you see the result, but smack dab in the middle of the rebuild.

                    Obviously though, every team is great in periods of player transition.

                    By the way, this is not the transition that every team is going through. If you even say that again, I will just add you to ignore like mojo. I don't know what NFL you are looking at but you should count our starters on the team from 2 years ago and then do it for every other NFL team. You will see how silly you are being about the turnover.
                    I do agree with you that he should not be fired as coach. But, I can see the argument. The only change I would make, which would be a big one, is that Mike should not retain the right to bring in talent. I just haven't seen it work too well for coaches that have all the control. I would just like to see what happens if there is someone else calling those shots and letting Mike do what he does best. I feel that the team would be better off in the short and long run if this happened starting Jan. 1st.

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                    • #55
                      Originally posted by Bronco51 View Post
                      Well we will just have to differ on why the team is rebuilding. I personally do not think that was Shanahan's goal at all. And as far as educated?? What coach has a 13-3 team 60 minutes from the Super Bowl.......and decides to rebuild????? No way you can say that was the plan. Now it's your turn to be educated. He wanted to make that 13-3 team BETTER not 9-7 and 6-9. You said it yourself, the veteran talent HE BROUGHT IN DID NOT WORK OUT!! Who is to blame for that? And since when was 13-3 a failure of a season?? How on any planet would you consider what has gone on the past 2 seasons any better than 13-3 and 60 minutes from the SB??
                      And another question. If that 13-3 team was coached up so much to be 13-3, what has happened since? And if you say the talent isn't as good, I ask, who is responsible for that? Bowlen??? So yes, Shanahan is a good coach, but he can only coach the talent he has, which by the way, he is responsible for getting. So make your choice, letting him coach this talent he brings in, or just coaching. I prefer to let him just coach.
                      OK, 13-3 with no SB is really a failure, even though I was just mocking others that where crying after that season. Also, I don't believe the plan to rebuild came right after that season. It did however come along as soon as he saw that Plummer had gone to crap. As soon as he drafted Jay, he automatically started replacing every skill position. Coincidence? Maybe, but I highly doubt it.

                      What has happened since? Umm, have you not been paying attention to anything I am saying? Even if you don't agree, can you at least read it before responding? Like I have said, we have been rebuilding. What team do you know that is winning with a second year QB, and even a portion of the 3rd year and below guys that we have? I will give you a hint, there isn't one and never has been. So yes, I would say that may be a good reason we aren't winning a SB this year.

                      Why would I say the talent isn't as good? I say that I see a far better team being built right now than what we had that 13-3 season. I see far better players being brought in. For me though, I understand that it takes time to get good in the NFL. It takes young players more than a single season or even two before they become real good. It takes new players to the team more than a couple of games to get new schemes down. It takes every new person to a team a while to build chemistry with the guys they are playing next to. When all of the team is new, it is going to take even longer.

                      So no, I don't think this team is a lot worse as you guys seem to. I just can see what is going on and I don't just look at a record to determain when to fire someone. I actually look at the situation.

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                      • #56
                        Originally posted by Bronco51 View Post
                        Hold on a second!! I never once said I hate the guy.I have met him many times and he is a nice man. I don't see why people can't argue the point of the teams suuden leap into mediocrity without you saying I hate the guy. And what happens if they don't make it into the playoffs next year? Are you jumping off his johnson?
                        Oh, I will never jump off his johnson. You can guarantee that!

                        I don't mean hate him personally, I meant hateing on his coaching (aka talking crap about it). You as well as others are all making him out to be a bad coach. You are acting as though there is a single coach in the NFL that could have done better. If you think that, you are being a hater. I am also talking to those that are saying he should be fired. I know many don't hate him personally for his coaching though.

                        The biggest part is that everyone decides to do this now. If you wanted him fired, this is the absolute worst time. We are right in the middle of rebuilding his new team. He is bringing in guys to fit his styles. If you guys wanted to cry about a new coach, you should have done it before the rebuilding process. Now that you have all waited until the middle of it, I don't see how we could fire him. The only option now is to let him finish the team and see what his plan is. If the team doesn't get good in the next season or two, we may change coaches. If we do that though, be prepared for some more rebuilding and a lot of 2-6 win seasons. Not just 2 every 15 years. This is why I say this. You all want to fire him now, not before he rebuilds, not after you see the result, but smack dab in the middle of the rebuild.

                        Obviously though, every team is great in periods of player transition.

                        By the way, this is not the transition that every team is going through. If you even say that again, I will just add you to ignore like mojo. I don't know what NFL you are looking at but you should count our starters on the team from 2 years ago and then do it for every other NFL team. You will see how silly you are being about the turnover.

                        Comment

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