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Can Jim Bates turn this thing around?

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  • Can Jim Bates turn this thing around?

    Can he HONESTLY turn this defense around?? What will he need to work it out? What can we expect from him in the offseason? I need some answers.

  • #2
    Originally posted by Beast#7 View Post
    Can he HONESTLY turn this defense around?? What will he need to work it out? What can we expect from him in the offseason? I need some answers.
    His scheme works... It has been successful before, so if you ask me... It's not the coach is the players to run it.

    We didn't have all the key places set last season, so if we find the right players this offseason then I think we will see things come around, but I wouldn't expect the defense to really get rolling until another two seasons. By then we should be pretty set with players and they would have some continuity as a unit. We certainly did not play cohesive this last year.

    For everyone wanting his head, you really have to give him what he needs to succeed. It's like trying to build a house with your hands tied behind your back. He didn't have the players he needed, don't blame him solely for that. I think our FO will have a big offseason cut out for them, between filling key holes on offense and defense.

    I don't think anyone can really give you the answers you want to hear, we will have to wait and see what happens.
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    • #3
      Originally posted by hardcorebronco View Post
      His scheme works... It has been successful before, so if you ask me... It's not the coach is the players to run it.

      We didn't have all the key places set last season, so if we find the right players this offseason then I think we will see things come around, but I wouldn't expect the defense to really get rolling until another two seasons. By then we should be pretty set with players and they would have some continuity as a unit. We certainly did not play cohesive this last year.

      For everyone wanting his head, you really have to give him what he needs to succeed. It's like trying to build a house with your hands tied behind your back. He didn't have the players he needed, don't blame him solely for that. I think our FO will have a big offseason cut out for them, between filling key holes on offense and defense.

      I don't think anyone can really give you the answers you want to hear, we will have to wait and see what happens.
      What exactly do you mean by the "right players"?

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      • #4
        Once he gets the players his defense will most definitely work. This defense failed this year because we've been using patchwork players that didn't do much and once we get to the draft and free agency I'd expect drastic improvements.

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        • #5
          what about Jarvis Moss, will he be a good fit for this scheme?

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          • #6
            i think the major reason why bates system didnt work is 3 things.

            1. it is a very complex defense to run and learn and 1 year was obviously not enough for the players to pick it up completly

            2. we currently dont have the right personnel up front for it to work

            3. foxworth stated in an interview yesterday that basicly most of the players didnt buy into it 100% and still played they way they have been taught in the past

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Beast#7 View Post
              What exactly do you mean by the "right players"?
              His scheme hinges on having a big fat DT that is able to command double teams and collapse the pocket. In some cases he used two, both starting.

              We didn't have one. Sam Adams didn't work out, and neither did the trade for Kenedy. That's not Bates' fault. There just simply wasn't any big DT's available. This offseason I think they will try to find atleast two.

              Lb's. Holdman was projected to start on the strongside, but was injured the whole season. And we were still reeling from the loss of Wilson.

              Safeties, we have essentially two strong safeties. Lynch isn't the pass coverage guy that can patrol over the top, and Abdullah is little more than a run stopper / big hitter guy. Bates' relies on his safeties being able to cover the over the top and provide help for his receivers that play man.

              So already, that's three major flaws in the three levels of our defense. He clearly did not have the players he needed to run his scheme, which is why it was scrapped after week four.
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              • #8
                Originally posted by Beast#7 View Post
                what about Jarvis Moss, will he be a good fit for this scheme?
                He fits the prototypical outside pass rushing upfield DE that Bates likes to employ. But whether or not Moss will improve and continue to develop is up to only himself.

                But skill set wise, he is a good match for Bates. Crowder too.
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                • #9
                  Originally posted by hardcorebronco View Post
                  His scheme hinges on having a big fat DT that is able to command double teams and collapse the pocket. In some cases he used two, both starting.

                  We didn't have one. Sam Adams didn't work out, and neither did the trade for Kenedy.
                  Yeah, that was the problem. Adams definitely had the fat part down, but nothing else. We need to get a Stroud, Henderson, Haynesworth type here, and Thomas needs to bulk up to fit the bill.
                  If you remember, he also tried to get Wilkinson, but Daddy opted to retire. But getting a pocket crushing unmovable type DT is the most important thing we could do this off-season. And you're also right, in that these guys are hard to find while they are in their prime. Bates definitely put in the effort to get these guys, but he can't do a thing about lack of availability.
                  And as for what Foxworth said, whoever is unwilling to play the scheme the coaches lay out should be gone. Last week.

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                  • #10
                    No, he can't, he is the dumbest defensive coach in the history of the world.

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                    • #11
                      The thing about defense is that it takes major heart, and if you do not buy into the system or are unsure how you fit in a certain system then your play will be worse. Add in the loss of D-Will, in comes Bly and Foxworth was pushed out, even though Shanahan said he would start! Lest we forget that Bly was not one of D-Will's friends and Foxworth was; that can shake a bit of the chemistry, real easy. We had no real dominant tackles and only one real good defensive end, a hole on the linebacker squad which looks to be handled now. We are not giving Bates enough time...he needs at least two full seasons before we really see it fruit fully.

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                      • #12
                        Prediction: Next season, we will once again rank in the bottom 10 in most defensive categories.

                        Sorry, but after Bates' terrible performance this year, I have zero faith in the guy.
                        Only fools bet against Tim Tebow.

                        Team Tebow #108

                        Yards, without points, mean nothing.

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                        • #13
                          First off, the defense isn't supposed to be complex. In fact, the scheme has a reputation for being simplistic in nature, and much less complicated than any scheme Denver was running previously.

                          This was according to Jim Bates and Mike Shanahan, as well as several players, during training camp.

                          Second, Bates' scheme was dumped after the bye week. That means that, beginning next season, we're going to be back to square one with trying to implement it and getting the players familiar with it. On top of that, Bates had his playcalling duties taken away mid-season and was placed up in the booth - where he didn't want to be. I think you can take that as signs that the writing is on the wall with regards to his returning to Denver.

                          Lastly, I only have to look at the play of Champ Bailey this season to know that the scheme hinders his playmaking abilities and doesn't allow him to excel at what he does best. If Champ Bailey isn't working well within the scheme, then you have a serious problem.
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                          • #14
                            We are not giving Bates enough time ?????

                            Are you completely out of your mind ??

                            (Looks at calendar)

                            (Looks at lack of progress)

                            We can play Tampa 2 tomorrow.

                            Free agents will flock here.

                            BTW, it's the ONLY defense the Colts run. (Point being....quit confusing ****)

                            We can play cover 1 tomorrow (actually suits the Broncs best)

                            Takes away the middle.

                            Put's pressure on the corners (but guess what?)

                            They aren't going anywhere.

                            Horse sense.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by DancingHorsey View Post
                              Prediction: Next season, we will once again rank in the bottom 10 in most defensive categories.

                              Sorry, but after Bates' terrible performance this year, I have zero faith in the guy.
                              Not only that, but look at all the personnel decisions he made this season.

                              Sam Adams. Simeon Rice. Dre Bly. DJ Williams. Gerrard Warren.

                              Just to name a few.

                              And I know there are some fans here who will swear by DJ in the middle just because of his tackle stat, but there are several intangibles that are required from the MLB position that I simply didn't see Williams have or develop during the season, not to mention he lacked the big-play capability we're used to seeing from our MLB. Yeah, he's great at swarming the ball-carrier and tackling guys. But that's why he's better suited for the outside, IMO.
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