Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Hanging on to our corners may be expensive.

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #16
    Originally posted by Dean View Post
    Re-signing Paymah and/or Foxworth may be more expensive than they are worth. Extending Champ's contract (now or later) will definitely be expensive. It could well become cost prohibitive to even trade corners for other players.

    The fact that we do have our starting corners under contract is a plus for the orgainization.
    Losing Foxworth and Paymah would kill our depth. I don't think we can afford to lose them both. I'd like to keep 'em both, but given a choice, I'd rather keep Paymah. The fact that they are both RFAs helps though.

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by silkamilkamonic View Post
      What laugh? Apparently you didn't watch the Denver-Houston game.
      But with our beat up OL, and Graham being out.... thats not saying much.

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by Ravage!!! View Post
        But with our beat up OL, and Graham being out.... thats not saying much.
        I still think it shows which is more important.

        Front 4 dictate.

        Back 4 have a fall out effect.

        I can't remember the last SuperBowl team that's defense was centered around the secondary.

        Indianapolis arguably, but that was because of Bob Sanders, who came in and stopped the run, to allow the DE's to pressure. It made the CB's look amazing, and I think we could see this year with David in NO that their CB's last year are merely average players.

        I agree with Parcells, Championship defenses are built around the front 7, not the back 4. Denver's defense, with the allocated money, has been built around the back 4.

        We likely couldn't get a high priced veteran DT if we wanted to because we have so much money locked in to our 2 starting CB's. Not to even mention what we need to do at the LB position, although I don't think it will take much to fix that.

        My point is, we have so much money locked up into a position that doesn't even dictate the play of defense. It's built backwards, and then Shanahan wonders why our defense hasn't been able to stop teams when it needs to since, probably never for him sans the SuperBowl years because of the offense.

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by silkamilkamonic View Post
          Blasphemus?

          You only validated my argument when you said his best friend was an effective pass rush. We have seen all season, and in season's past, how ineffective a CB can be if he has no pass rush. Thus, it's a position that is solely impacted on the play of other positions.


          Houston game is a perfect example. Denver had the Pro Bowl secondary with the below average dline, and Houston had the great dline and the backup secondary.

          Which defense won out? A CB can't cover his man forever, yet at the same time Denver couldn't even exploit Houston's backup secondary because the pressure was so great.

          "Non impact player" was a bad term I used, but a front 7, or better yet a front 4, is of much greater importance than even the best secondary.

          I agree with you in the respect that the Defense should be built in the trenches and starts with the D-line. But to call the CB's play and especially Champs a "non-impact player, non-important player" IS BLASPHEMUS! Seriously, he singlehandeldy won us a handfull of games last year

          Can you imagine how bad our D would be if we DIDN'T have Champ or Bly??? The name Willie Middlebrooks comes to mind.

          Also, while I do prefer the pass rush to come from our front 4 i didn't say it had to (blitzing LB's, Safety, etc).

          I also can't help but wonder how much our rushing defense would decline without Champ in there. He was consistently peaking into the backfield and making tackles this year.

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by Ravage!!! View Post
            But with our beat up OL, and Graham being out.... thats not saying much.
            I'll have to second you on this one- Graham is one of the most underappreciated Broncos on our team.


            We're on our 3rd string center with a couple 2nd string O lineman, arguably the best blocking TE out of the game injured. I wouldn't exactly say the Texan game is a real fair comparison.

            Comment


            • #21
              Get rid of Foxworthless. He needs to go! Calling out the flaws on the defense to the media isn't a thing HE should do. This guy thinks hes a starting CB, so let him start for some other team.






              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by silkamilkamonic View Post
                What laugh? Apparently you didn't watch the Denver-Houston game.
                I was there ROFLMAO. I got no choice but to watch Houston Texans every sunday. Do you watch Houston Texans every sunday or are you just basing your facts off of one Thursday night game?

                Super Mario was Texans only pass rushing threat. He came on real good at the end of the year. Other than that Demeco Ryans was in same position as DJ not having the beef up front to stop the run hence why he had so many freaking tackles. Travis Johnson is as uselesss as teets on a rooster and Okoye was a rookie. Teams could run on Houston at will and with a beat up secondary where none of the starters from the season ended it, Teams had a field day passing and rushing.

                Kubiak exploited Denver's weaknesses where as Shanny didnt do the same to Houston.

                All around consensus in Houston is they need to sign/draft an OLB who is very effective blitzer ala Terrell Suggs. Draft S who is a tackling machine and can play in the box. Sign FA OT to replace aging Ephraim Salaam, Draft 1st Round OT to put on the line and put Eric Winston at OG. Darius Walker was a very good bright spot for Texans and will work nicely with Dayne next year.

                Houston is almost there. Lot closer imo than Denver is.

                Originally posted by silkamilkamonic View Post
                What laugh? Apparently you didn't watch the Denver-Houston game.
                Again I ask you, Do you watch Houston Texans every sunday or are you just basing your facts off of one Thursday night game?

                Comment


                • #23
                  I love how people are calling for Foxy's head to get out of town... I mean, hell.. the guy didn't even play his regular position at corner.

                  Let's cut the fool because he was forced to play safety which in my opinion made him look bad.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by B4Bronco6 View Post
                    I love how people are calling for Foxy's head to get out of town... I mean, hell.. the guy didn't even play his regular position at corner.

                    Let's cut the fool because he was forced to play safety which in my opinion made him look bad.
                    I say trade him because of the fact he can play safety or cb, and the change of scenery may do him some good.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      I'm going to have to agree with silk on this one. Virtually all of our money defensively is being spent on Bly and Bailey. It's one of the big reasons why we couldn't keep Hayward or Berry, and why we attempted to trade Al Wilson to the Giants.

                      Obviously, Bailey and Bly are tremendous players. But shutdown corners are a luxury in this league - having a front 7 that can stop the run and pressure the quarterback is a necessity if you want to win Super Bowls. I don't know how we expect to get better at rushing the quarterback when our money to spend on the defensive line is limted because of what we're spending on the secondary. We can wait and hope that our drafted players will pan out. But prior to this season, the Broncos had drafted 13 defensive linemen in the draft under Shanahan, and only Dumervil is the remaining player of those 13.

                      It does sound ridiculous to even consider trading a Champ Bailey or Dre Bly for anything. But also consider that Bailey is coming off a down year, is getting older, and his trade value will probably not be any higher right now sometime down the road. I'm telling you guys there's no way this defense will ever be dominant unless we get a pass rush, and you're not going to be able to obtain and keep dominant pass rushers spending the money we do on Bly and Bailey.
                      sigpic

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        The most business savvy deal would be to try and trade one of them the offseason before his final year of contract. I see Bly getting the axe before Champ for the simple fact when Lynch hangs it up Champ will be the only 'D' Leader on the team unless DJ mans up and takes the reigns.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by silkamilkamonic View Post
                          I still think it shows which is more important.

                          Front 4 dictate.

                          Back 4 have a fall out effect.

                          I can't remember the last SuperBowl team that's defense was centered around the secondary.

                          Indianapolis arguably, but that was because of Bob Sanders, who came in and stopped the run, to allow the DE's to pressure. It made the CB's look amazing, and I think we could see this year with David in NO that their CB's last year are merely average players.

                          I agree with Parcells, Championship defenses are built around the front 7, not the back 4. Denver's defense, with the allocated money, has been built around the back 4.

                          We likely couldn't get a high priced veteran DT if we wanted to because we have so much money locked in to our 2 starting CB's. Not to even mention what we need to do at the LB position, although I don't think it will take much to fix that.

                          My point is, we have so much money locked up into a position that doesn't even dictate the play of defense. It's built backwards, and then Shanahan wonders why our defense hasn't been able to stop teams when it needs to since, probably never for him sans the SuperBowl years because of the offense.
                          Good post Silk. People seem to forget that the Redskins were more than willing to trade Bailey because at the time they had a formidable front 7 and felt a home run hitter on offense was all they needed. While Bailey has been a great player here, he has not been the ultimate shut down-take half the field away player. I feel that's because the front 7 has been awful. If he had a front 7 to pressure the QB into mistakes, I feel no one would throw his way at all. There needs to be a bigger commitment to building a strong front 7 and paying them accordingly instead of the plug and play philosophy we have had. Until that happens, too much money is being spent on players who can't dictate an opposing team's game plan.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Very interesting thread here. I cant lie, it makes me uneasy to hear this from Bailey, that he may be looking for a contract extension. Nate Clements is way over paid no question, but its worse when we all KNOW Champ is way better. Bly seems to fall out of favor now with me if we have to give up more to keep Bailey happy. Bly is strictly a cover corner with great hands, who is undersized and not great in run support, Champ's game is near flawless.

                            Bottom line, Champ is the only player I would even THINK of giving up that kind of money for, but in reality he IS only a CB. He proved to be unable to stop us from being such a poor defense because of his position. And having to pay a player that much money and still be capable of having a defense as bad as ours, its not in our best interest to overpay for a CB, even if it is Champ.

                            This is why the head office gets paid the big bucks. Champ goes above and beyond what a CB should do imo, but a CB needs a supporting cast.........as evidence by this poor season.
                            Last edited by Return of Lava; 01-03-2008, 12:43 PM.
                            dont let him pull dat move on ya, dont let him pull that move.......................oh no dats da move! TOUCHDOWN!!!

                            I tried to warn ya.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by silkamilkamonic View Post
                              Houston showed Denver that with a very good front 4 you can be a very good defense with a backup secondary.

                              To bad they couldn't show the Colt(x2), the Falcons, Jacksonville, San Diego, Tennesse(x2), Cleveland, all who posted a average of 32 points on that defense.

                              They also were Ranked 14th in the league agianst the run, 24th agianst the pass, 24th overall and 22nd in points.

                              Yeah that Houston had a "Very good defense" indeed...

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                One of Two things i find we need to do in denver the most this offseason is fix the lines if we dont fix them both side of the lines skill players are gonna be affected DANGIT shanny fix them now!!
                                The fool who fancies he is full of wisdom
                                While he sits by his hearth at home.
                                Quickly finds when questioned by others .
                                That he knows nothing at all.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X