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Hanging on to our corners may be expensive.

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  • #31
    If I were the G.M. I would have to trade Champ. In purely a business decision, we could probably get a very good offensive lineman and a good defensive lineman to complement last year's draft class. It makes no sense to keep a corner like Bailey when we could get so many problems solved by trading him to a team with one or more of the players we need.

    Champ is a very, very, very good corner. I would love to see him retire as a bronco. But, I never saw him as the type of guy that would drastically reduce his salary for the good of the team (not a minor restructure, a major reduction). I hope I’m wrong.

    The way this league has evolved, I think we need corners that can just keep up with the W/Rs and let the front seven keep the pressure on. What I mean is, with much less hand fighting, fighting for position, and the lack of an extended bump and run. Find some runners and turn them loose. This is a simplified answer, but most should see where I’m coming from.

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    • #32
      Id argue that there are more than a handful of cheaper corners that could do a better job than Bly did this year. Lets get out of the Bly situation quickly and quietly...

      ...I like Foxworth but it has been said, he cant tackle well. That could change with coaching, he is still developing and Id love to start him opposite Champ (remember how well he did when D Will was injured)

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      • #33
        I just feel we could get more from Champ. Bly could go, don't get me wrong. Don't you think champ is (this is a poor word choice) worth more?

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        • #34
          Originally posted by silkamilkamonic View Post
          IMHO, between Bailey and Bly, we have far too much money tied up in the CB position. We've seen that it is a position that is solely dicatated on the play of the dline, so they are non impact players.

          Even for as good as Bailey is, I wouldn't be opposed to doing something with both of them and actually building a great front 7.

          Houston showed Denver that with a very good front 4 you can be a very good defense with a backup secondary.
          yeah bailey is non impact. i mean because bailey plays for our team he cant make any impact at all but if he was on the texans he would of had 20 picks by now.

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          • #35
            Originally posted by mojo0730 View Post
            I'm going to have to agree with silk on this one. Virtually all of our money defensively is being spent on Bly and Bailey. It's one of the big reasons why we couldn't keep Hayward or Berry, and why we attempted to trade Al Wilson to the Giants.
            Bly and even Bailey were not Broncos when we released Hayward and Berry. We were having difficulty with our cap then.

            Obviously, Bailey and Bly are tremendous players. But shutdown corners are a luxury in this league - having a front 7 that can stop the run and pressure the quarterback is a necessity if you want to win Super Bowls. I don't know how we expect to get better at rushing the quarterback when our money to spend on the defensive line is limted because of what we're spending on the secondary. We can wait and hope that our drafted players will pan out. But prior to this season, the Broncos had drafted 13 defensive linemen in the draft under Shanahan, and only Dumervil is the remaining player of those 13.
            I think that we now have the ends to get the job done 'in house'. If we can get a pair of good (not necessarily great) D-tackles, imagine what kind of defense we could have in a year or two.

            It does sound ridiculous to even consider trading a Champ Bailey or Dre Bly for anything. But also consider that Bailey is coming off a down year, is getting older, and his trade value will probably not be any higher right now sometime down the road. I'm telling you guys there's no way this defense will ever be dominant unless we get a pass rush, and you're not going to be able to obtain and keep dominant pass rushers spending the money we do on Bly and Bailey.
            The cap keeps going up. The money we spend on Bly and Bailey by next year may make their contracts look much more reasonable.

            Dumervil is as good a pass rusher as Hayward and Berry. If either Crowder or Moss can get a push from the other side, we might have a pass rush very soon. I realize we as fans have no idea how big an IF it actually is but the front office probably has a good idea.

            If no pass rush is in the Broncos' immediate future, then maybe deal one of our corners but not both.

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            • #36
              Originally posted by BroncosTX77 View Post
              I say trade him because of the fact he can play safety or cb, and the change of scenery may do him some good.

              Everyone here is looking towards the future... well there it is. Foxworth is the future!

              In my opinion, Dre Bly is just over paid. Sure he makes plays, but he whiffs. (Don't bring up the argument about the run, because he's done it his whole career).

              Who do you want in the long run? A 32 year old corner, or a 25 year old?

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              • #37
                Having a Hall of Famer is a luxury?

                If having great CB's is a bad idea, who would trade for them anyway?

                Any idea that has Dominique Foxworth starting for this team is a bad idea, imo, he's the worst tackler this side of Ian Gold......A total pansy......
                Last edited by stnzed; 01-03-2008, 05:48 PM.

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by stnzed View Post
                  Having a Hall of Famer is a luxury?

                  If having great CB's is a bad idea, who would trade for them anyway?......
                  I'm sure your referring to Champ as the Hall of Famer, and not Bly... right?


                  Having great CB's isn't a bad idea.... but it is kinda of worthless if you have no front seven to HELP them make plays.

                  The point was brought up in the Texans game. They were playing with basically a whole second string secondary! Why were they so good? The front seven..

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by B4Bronco6 View Post
                    I'm sure your referring to Champ as the Hall of Famer, and not Bly... right?


                    Having great CB's isn't a bad idea.... but it is kinda of worthless if you have no front seven to HELP them make plays.

                    The point was brought up in the Texans game. They were playing with basically a whole second string secondary! Why were they so good? The front seven..
                    So you're kinda saying let's trade Bailey and Bly for the Texans defense? Not sure they'll go for that.

                    The point is, trading Bailey and Bly does not gaurantee that you'll improve the defense. You'd have better luck improving the players around them.

                    It's like Parcells just said, the idea is to keep the good players and surround them with more good players.

                    You do not trade a Hall of Famer in the prime of his career and get better!!!!!!

                    Losing Al Wilson and Champ Bailey in back-to-back seasons sounds good to me......

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by stnzed View Post
                      So you're kinda saying let's trade Bailey and Bly for the Texans defense? Not sure they'll go for that.

                      The point is, trading Bailey and Bly does not gaurantee that you'll improve the defense. You'd have better luck improving the players around them.

                      It's like Parcells just said, the idea is to keep the good players and surround them with more good players.

                      You do not trade a Hall of Famer in the prime of his career and get better!!!!!!

                      Losing Al Wilson and Champ Bailey in back-to-back seasons sounds good to me......
                      Nah, I never pointed out in trading Champ!!!

                      Bly was the one that I pointed out trading for...

                      The guy is getting payed too much for really.. the little he brings. I'm not a pure Bly hater, but I never liked giving him all that money.

                      I was just showing you how a backup secondary can look THAT good by a good and solid front seven pass rush...

                      I would never trade Champ... where in the world did ya get that from!

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by stnzed View Post
                        Losing Al Wilson and Champ Bailey in back-to-back seasons sounds good to me......
                        Well, if the Broncos are rebuilding as some will claim, then this is exactly what you would do. Trade out your veterans for players that can help you long-term, which for the Broncos, would be trench guys.

                        The fact is, it's going to be at least 2-3 seasons before this defense is back to where we expect it to be, if it ever gets back there under Shanahan. By that time, Champ would have reached and probably exceeded his peak.

                        Like I said, I know how special and talented Champ is, and I'm not advocating that we trade him per se. But he's the type of player that is a great addition to an already-established defense - not a player you build your squad around. The Broncos need pass rushers, and they'll never get them with Champ's contract UNLESS they luck out with the draft - which given this team's recent history with drafted defensive linemen, doesn't have me too confident.
                        sigpic

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                        • #42
                          Denver's recent history with drafted D-linmen include Dumervil, Crowder, Moss, and Thomas. I could live with that.

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Dean View Post
                            Denver's recent history with drafted D-linmen include Dumervil, Crowder, Moss, and Thomas. I could live with that.
                            I'll grant you Dumervil.

                            However, although Crowder, Thomas, and Moss showed signs that they could be pros...it's still far too early to judge whether or not they'll be long-term keepers.
                            sigpic

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by silkamilkamonic View Post
                              IMHO, between Bailey and Bly, we have far too much money tied up in the CB position. We've seen that it is a position that is solely dicatated on the play of the dline, so they are non impact players.

                              Even for as good as Bailey is, I wouldn't be opposed to doing something with both of them and actually building a great front 7.

                              Houston showed Denver that with a very good front 4 you can be a very good defense with a backup secondary.
                              I can remember the days that the CB position was our weekest on the team and wound up costing us most of our games. So i am not with you on this one. But we do need a great front 4.... Money is always an issue but i think there isn't much available talent.

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                              • #45
                                Originally posted by silkamilkamonic View Post
                                IMHO, between Bailey and Bly, we have far too much money tied up in the CB position. We've seen that it is a position that is solely dicatated on the play of the dline, so they are non impact players.

                                Even for as good as Bailey is, I wouldn't be opposed to doing something with both of them and actually building a great front 7.

                                Houston showed Denver that with a very good front 4 you can be a very good defense with a backup secondary.
                                Wrong, wrong , just wrong. Yes the line does effect them. But you have to remember just how bad our line was, If we had 2 average corners. we would get our doors blown off.

                                We need to get at LEAST an average Dline. AT least. Not the WORST IN THE NFL.


                                :salute!: !!Get well soon!!:salute!:

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