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Give me compelling reasons/arguments why Jim Bates should stay...

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  • Give me compelling reasons/arguments why Jim Bates should stay...

    There's clearly a measure of fandom around here that believes Jim Bates should be given at least one more season to coach the defense for the Broncos, but I have yet to hear a compelling argument or reason as to why that is, given the historic collapse of our defense and the embarrassing losses we endured as a result of our shotty defense.

    So, I'm ready to hear it - why exactly should Jim Bates return to the Broncos next season?
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  • #2
    My opinion is, and has always been, that you bring someone in to do a job, you have to give him the tools to do that job and you have to give him a shot to get the job done. He had neither the tools nor the time to get the job accomplished this year, and I think firing him and bringing in another DC with another system is the wrong decision. It would likely set us back further, not immediately help us.

    Furthermore, Bates has done it in his second year before. Don't let your impatience - due to the Broncos success in the last 13 years - cloud the importance of consistency for a young, talented, mostly injured and incomplete unit. Let him get the right players and start from day one in minicamp.
    In Manning I trust.

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    • #3
      1 Simple Reason.

      He wasn't provided with any quality players.

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      • #4
        But again, he was in charge of the personnel on defense this season. The defense we saw on the field was handpicked by him for the most part. Furthermore, it was his decision to cut Warren, bring in Bly, Adams, and Rice, move DJ to the middle, and cut/resign 13 different defenive linemen this season. And nothing - NOTHING worked. We didn't even see improvement in the defense from week-to-week the entire time we ran his scheme and he was calling the plays.

        So we can say 'he wasn't given the tools', but he has no one but himself to blame for that.
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        • #5
          Originally posted by TheRealMoose View Post
          Furthermore, Bates has done it in his second year before. Don't let your impatience - due to the Broncos success in the last 13 years - cloud the importance of consistency for a young, talented, mostly injured and incomplete unit. Let him get the right players and start from day one in minicamp.
          Consistency? We dropped his scheme in Week 5! How do you expect there to be consistency when we implement a scheme, drop it five weeks into the season, then try again with a bunch of new guys next season?
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          • #6
            Furthermore, do you think consistency is more important that actually being good? Because the Broncos defense was consistently bad this season. So if that's what you're going for, then yeah, sure - go ahead and keep Bates.
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            • #7
              If he stays im still a Bronco fan if gos im still a Bronco fan

              I can see him being fired or staying I just want the team to get better I think they will next year with or without Bates.

              He sits high on top of a big pile of p00p season
              Where we all could smell it and everyone can tell you 100 different places the smell was coming from.
              :logo: :logo: :logo: :logo: :logo:

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              • #8
                I would like to see Bates gone to but I need to be honest with the situation. Bates should get another year because................

                1.) Last year Coyers system was falling apart when we needed it to work the most. So Bates came into a situation that was broken.

                2.) Bates could be the master mind the Broncos were looking for but in all reality look at the personal he had to work with when he entered the system. Yes we had stand outs but when you loose your MLB and try to patch work a line backing core, a disaster was inevitable.

                3.) Did we expect a miracle from Bates his first year? (I sure did) But in reality the fans set the BAR WAY TO HIGH for Bates and his first year as a coach.

                4.) Injuries after the Dallas Pre season game started more patch work on a shaky system. (the team was not ready to play at Dallas's level and was well over worked during that week)

                5.) Can you honestly build a Super Bowl Defense in 51 weeks? The answer is no. This takes time.

                6.) MORE INJURIES

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by rst08tierney View Post
                  I would like to see Bates gone to but I need to be honest with the situation. Bates should get another year because................

                  1.) Last year Coyers system was falling apart when we needed it to work the most. So Bates came into a situation that was broken.

                  2.) Bates could be the master mind the Broncos were looking for but in all reality look at the personal he had to work with when he entered the system. Yes we had stand outs but when you loose your MLB and try to patch work a line backing core, a disaster was inevitable.

                  3.) Did we expect a miracle from Bates his first year? (I sure did) But in reality the fans set the BAR WAY TO HIGH for Bates and his first year as a coach.

                  4.) Injuries after the Dallas Pre season game started more patch work on a shaky system. (the team was not ready to play at Dallas's level and was well over worked during that week)

                  5.) Can you honestly build a Super Bowl Defense in 51 weeks? The answer is no. This takes time.

                  6.) MORE INJURIES
                  But again, we're not talking about just a slight decline or just a bad defense. Historically, this was the worst Broncos defense since the mid 60's. Only two other teams in the NFL allowed more points than the Broncos.

                  After a season like this, I think someone has to be held accountable. And if it's not Bates, then who? Every decision he made went south and helped create the defensive disaster we saw in '07.
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                  • #10
                    The Defense was pretty bad '06 season as well I thought the '05 season had nothing to do with the Broncos defense.

                    One Goal reach the Super Bowl no matter who was coaching this years defense the Broncos would have not made it to the playoffs.

                    Install a new system again in '08
                    Or can Bates turn it around he couldnt do any worse.
                    :logo: :logo: :logo: :logo: :logo:

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by humpbobby View Post
                      The Defense was pretty bad '06 season as well I thought the '05 season had nothing to do with the Broncos defense.

                      One Goal reach the Super Bowl no matter who was coaching this years defense the Broncos would have not made it to the playoffs.

                      Install a new system again in '08
                      Or can Bates turn it around he couldnt do any worse.
                      We're going to have to install a new system in '08 anyway because we scrapped Bates' system after week 5.

                      So regardless, at the beginning of next season, we're going to be back to square one with his scheme.
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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by B4Bronco6 View Post
                        1 Simple Reason.

                        He wasn't provided with any quality players.
                        I have to call BS on this.

                        He got a defense that was pretty good and only had problems rushing the passer.

                        Besides injury problems I am pretty sure he was key in every single defensive move made atleast until the season started and his defense started to look bad.

                        edit - Been pretty harsh on Bates and in all fairness he should be given a chance to evaluate the season. If I was Shanny I would tell Bates to analyze the season, identify the problems, identify the errors, and present a general plan of correction for 2008. If his report sounds honest and has some good ideas then I would keep him for another year.
                        Last edited by Hadez; 01-04-2008, 09:04 AM.
                        Time to build on the win and grow the team from some solid play higher level of play

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by humpbobby View Post
                          The Defense was pretty bad '06 season as well I thought the '05 season had nothing to do with the Broncos defense.

                          One Goal reach the Super Bowl no matter who was coaching this years defense the Broncos would have not made it to the playoffs.

                          Install a new system again in '08
                          Or can Bates turn it around he couldnt do any worse.
                          You need to account for ALL of the defenses injuries. We had more then just an injury bug this year. Any coach would have failed with a year like this. I dont care what type of guru you are, you cant account for key players going down in a new system.

                          Now on the flip side, if the was a Vet. defense, with a system in play for more then 17 weeks, then YES, players needed to step up and the run should have been slowed but still a Super Bowl with patch work would have never happened.

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                          • #14
                            I don't understand why you ask for compelling reasons when there's not a single reason you'd actually consider. It's obvious you want Bates gone. So tell us all: who do we replace him with? I've got news: anyone who doesn't currently have a job has probably been fired somewhere else. So what's the brilliant answer you have in store for all of us?

                            As for consistency, you don't think that maybe the scheme would have shown progress as the season wore on if we'd kept with it after week 5? You don't think these guys can be coached up? If that's the case, I've got news: no matter who we bring in to coach, if they're uncoachable, and if Shanny's going to change scheme on the DC anyway, there isn't a single DC in the world that will improve this unit.

                            Consistency means ALLOWING FOR PROGRESS. As you say, we cut the cord after five games and went in a new direction. FIVE GAMES??????? All we knew after five games was that we weren't going to win a Championship. But we didn't allow the system to grow and improve, and THAT is on Shanny.

                            Firing Bates because of injuries and inconsistent play AND changing the scheme before the midway point is folly.
                            In Manning I trust.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Hadez View Post
                              edit - Been pretty harsh on Bates and in all fairness he should be given a chance to evaluate the season. If I was Shanny I would tell Bates to analyze the season, identify the problems, identify the errors, and present a general plan of correction for 2008. If his report sounds honest and has some good ideas then I would keep him for another year.
                              Now THAT is a good plan.
                              In Manning I trust.

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