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Give me compelling reasons/arguments why Jim Bates should stay...

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  • Originally posted by PowderAddict View Post
    Bill Belichick, Dan Reeves, Dennis Green, Wade Phillips, Marv Levy, the list goes on and on of successful coaches not in their 30’s or 40’s.

    So yeah, you have success and failure at the coaching level in all age groups, pretty much proving that age isn’t really a factor when looking at coaching.

    Cute sayings don’t prove anything.
    Yes...but how young are their coordinators?
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    • Originally posted by Ravage!!! View Post
      Come on mojo... QUIT speaking as though you know what Shanahan was thinking, wanting, or what he was saying behind the scenes. Stop it. You don't have a CLUE as to what he was expecting from the change.

      Plus, again... do you really think the fans ever have 'reasonable' expectations???? Seriously? Everytime a player is drafted he's the next elite, and every 1st round pick SHOULD be a HoF player or its a bust. I've seen the 'fans' here say that EVERY WR drafted should do better than Rod Smith.... since he wasn't drafted! So don't use the 'fans here' had expectations.



      Again... you don't really know how much of the scheme was 'dumped' or not dumped. You don't know what was being done and not being done. You don't know the approach they are going to go with this offseason, and what they arent. That means both personnel and scheme. I don't see how you think there won't be improvement.... and we have seen year after year after year....t eams that fall to the bottom in a catagory RISE the year after. HELL.. LOOK at Tennessee! Their defense was NOT good last year. Your judgments on next year's performance just doen't really make sense.... other than just being negative and down based on THIS year.
      Come on ravage...don't tell me that you think Shanahan felt this was a long-term project when he dumped the scheme five weeks into the season? Or that you don't read anything into his reaction when asked if he were disappointed with Bates' scheme after the Chicago loss (it could have been Oakland - I'm not sure)? Or when players came out after the Houston loss and stated the things they were doing in games is nothing like they were practicing in training camp or preseason?

      I don't pretend to know what Mike Shanahan thinks at all times or what goes on behind closed doors, but I'm not dense enough to not be able to read inbetween comments and statements such as those.
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      • Originally posted by mojo0730 View Post
        And the optimism that it will somehow be better next season is false hope.
        There is the answer. I think thats kind of short sighted, and honestly doesn't really make sense. There is no reason to believe that just because a team had a bad year, doesn't mean they can't and won't get better. To me, thats just a rejected sense of hopelessness. I don't get why you would have that. There has been example after example after example of teams making a big change the following year of changing a scheme. The GB players and coaches said, that we would be frustrated, but to stick with it and things will be something we would love. Whats happening... the VERY thing they said would happen.

        To me... clearing house and starting over just doesn't make sense.

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        • Originally posted by Ravage!!! View Post
          There is the answer. I think thats kind of short sighted, and honestly doesn't really make sense. There is no reason to believe that just because a team had a bad year, doesn't mean they can't and won't get better. To me, thats just a rejected sense of hopelessness. I don't get why you would have that. There has been example after example after example of teams making a big change the following year of changing a scheme. The GB players and coaches said, that we would be frustrated, but to stick with it and things will be something we would love. Whats happening... the VERY thing they said would happen.

          To me... clearing house and starting over just doesn't make sense.
          Well, then enlighten me. Give me a list of players that Denver can reasonably obtain, given it's other needs, cap room, who's available, it's draft position, etc. that gives you hope it will be better next season.
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          • Originally posted by mojo0730 View Post
            Come on ravage...don't tell me that you think Shanahan felt this was a long-term project when he dumped the scheme five weeks into the season? Or that you don't read anything into his reaction when asked if he were disappointed with Bates' scheme after the Chicago loss (it could have been Oakland - I'm not sure)? Or when players came out after the Houston loss and stated the things they were doing in games is nothing like they were practicing in training camp or preseason?

            I don't pretend to know what Mike Shanahan thinks at all times or what goes on behind closed doors, but I'm not dense enough to not be able to read inbetween comments and statements such as those.
            You want to take what Foxworth has to say as something of credibility? You want to read into the comments that Shanahan said after a disappointing loss... and AGAIN.. you STILL do not know really how much was changed and how much was 'dumped.'

            EVEN if it was completely dumped.... YOu can NOT tell me that the players injuries nd releases were something that was FORESEEN by Shanahan. I'm also sure, that Shanahan is a LOT more realistic than you are, and most of the fans here. Being a top five defense in the first year with all our changes??????? ONLY blind fans would expect that much! I would bet you a years paycheck that Shanahan didn't have "expectations" like that going into the year. Thats absurd. LONG TERM does not mean more than one season, mojo. It just feels long term because the season was so poor. Its NOT long term to give a guy more than a single season.

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            • Again.. I'll say this and leave this thread.

              The most logical reason to keep our DC is because you can NOT just expect a coach to coach a team, build a scheme, and change everythign is ONE season.

              The most reasonable and logical reason is to let him do what he does, as he has proven to do time and time again with other teams, and LET him build our defense with more than ONE single year to do it.

              Thats not good enough for you, and that is never going to change. You are never going to accept that, so the very purpose of this thread really has no point, because no matter what, you are not going to change your mind.

              So the best thing I can say... is to just start brewing now because its going to be one MISERABLE offseason for you.

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              • Originally posted by mojo0730 View Post
                Well...if you really believe that, then why continue to respond?

                I don't get into discussions of who could replace who/who's better for the job, etc. anymore. I'm not here to please you or make you happy with my responses.

                I will say, however, that the most ridiculous thought process in fandom is the idea that only one specific coach can coach a respective team. I think there are probably a dozen guys who can coach this defense as good or better than Bates - guys none of us have probably heard of before. The issue is, that right now this season, Bates, IN MY OPINION, failed us. And the optimism that it will somehow be better next season is false hope.
                You're not here to please me or make me happy with your responses, but we're all expected to give you "compelling reasons why" Bates shouldn't be fired?? Come on, man, wake up.

                Again, you seem to think you're the be-all, end-all of football knowledge around here, and you're not. As Ravage!! said, you're not running anything in Dove Valley, yet you expect us to just take your word for everything you say.

                What a joke.

                You know what, you're right. I'm done responding on this thread. Your know-it-all bull**** has just about run its course for me, and I would imagine, everyone else here.
                In Manning I trust.

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                • Originally posted by Ravage!!! View Post
                  You want to take what Foxworth has to say as something of credibility? You want to read into the comments that Shanahan said after a disappointing loss... and AGAIN.. you STILL do not know really how much was changed and how much was 'dumped.'

                  EVEN if it was completely dumped.... YOu can NOT tell me that the players injuries nd releases were something that was FORESEEN by Shanahan. I'm also sure, that Shanahan is a LOT more realistic than you are, and most of the fans here. Being a top five defense in the first year with all our changes??????? ONLY blind fans would expect that much! I would bet you a years paycheck that Shanahan didn't have "expectations" like that going into the year. Thats absurd. LONG TERM does not mean more than one season, mojo. It just feels long term because the season was so poor. Its NOT long term to give a guy more than a single season.
                  Like I said, I believe that a significant portion of the scheme (if not all of it) was dumped. Foxworth is an intelligent guy, and I don't believe he would have made such statements if they weren't true. They may have been inappropriate to state, but I doubt they're false.

                  Like I said, I think Shanahan had much higher expectations for the defense going into this season than where they wound up, even with the injuries. I think his reaction when asked the quesiton solidifies that for me. It may not for you, but it does for me.
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                  • Originally posted by TheRealMoose View Post
                    You're not here to please me or make me happy with your responses, but we're all expected to give you "compelling reasons why" Bates shouldn't be fired?? Come on, man, wake up.

                    Again, you seem to think you're the be-all, end-all of football knowledge around here, and you're not. As Ravage!! said, you're not running anything in Dove Valley, yet you expect us to just take your word for everything you say.

                    What a joke.

                    You know what, you're right. I'm done responding on this thread. Your know-it-all bull**** has just about run its course for me, and I would imagine, everyone else here.
                    And that's your choice and right to make.
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                    • Originally posted by Ravage!!! View Post
                      Again.. I'll say this and leave this thread.

                      The most logical reason to keep our DC is because you can NOT just expect a coach to coach a team, build a scheme, and change everythign is ONE season.

                      The most reasonable and logical reason is to let him do what he does, as he has proven to do time and time again with other teams, and LET him build our defense with more than ONE single year to do it.

                      Thats not good enough for you, and that is never going to change. You are never going to accept that, so the very purpose of this thread really has no point, because no matter what, you are not going to change your mind.

                      So the best thing I can say... is to just start brewing now because its going to be one MISERABLE offseason for you.
                      Not really. After the Super Bowl I tend to move on to different things for the offseason. I tend to wait until the draft before I come back hardcore.

                      Let me ask you a question ravage...what would it signify to you if, say for argument's sake, Mike Shanahan does wind up firing Bates?
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                      • I'm going to give another examle:

                        Cam Cameron.

                        By all accounts, a great coordinator. He comes to Miami, and although they're 1-15, they're a mostly competitive 1-15 and playing a difficult schedule. The players seem to like him, and he dealt with a ton of injuries.

                        Yet, he was still fired, because it was deemed he wasn't a right fit for the type of system that the team wants to run.
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                        • Originally posted by mojo0730 View Post
                          I'm going to give another examle:

                          Cam Cameron.

                          By all accounts, a great coordinator. He comes to Miami, and although they're 1-15, they're a mostly competitive 1-15 and playing a difficult schedule. The players seem to like him, and he dealt with a ton of injuries.

                          Yet, he was still fired, because it was deemed he wasn't a right fit for the type of system that the team wants to run.
                          He didnt fit what Bill Parcells wanted to do. Nobody could have coached that Dolphins team to anything respectable, with an ancient defense, and an offense that lost its top running backs, QB, and traded the top TE and WR. If Bill Parcells doesnt come in, I think Cam is able to keep his job for another year.


                          I think the future looks bright for the defense. Missing a NT, and possibly a FS, both which I think can be addressed in the draft (The NT also possibly during FA). Possibly an upgrade at the SAM position is needed. I would like to see how Warrick Holdman comes back though.
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                          I think Ben Tate will be the best back taken in the 2010 draft. (5/3/10)
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                          • Originally posted by mojo0730 View Post
                            Let me ask you a question ravage...what would it signify to you if, say for argument's sake, Mike Shanahan does wind up firing Bates?
                            What does it signify to me?? Nothing other than the coaches decided to go another way, or another coach intrigued their interest.

                            The point of the thread was to give reasons as to WHY to keep him...and thats what I was giving. The reasons to keep him, and the most logical reasons, are to give the guy a chance to do what he does... coach.

                            Its easy to look at the results after one year and just say 'fire everyone' (as we have seen so many people post). But thats not reasonable, and thats not logical, and although its a possibility, its not a likely scenario.

                            So it wouldn't signify anything to me. I'm not saying that I KNOW the best thing for this team is to keep Bates. I'm saying that there certainly are very logical reasons to keep him.

                            I don't like the idea of just firing him to fire him. I don't like firing coordinators after one year. I say that about other teams as well. People want to give credit to Wade Phillips and Norv Turner after one season of following VERY good coaches (I mean, we even saw Switzer win a SB with Johnson's team). But lets see what they do 2-3 years down the road when they have THEIR fingerprints on it.

                            Same here in Denver. We know that Bates is a GOOD coach. So it seems logical to think that we should see what this team is like 2-3 years when he has HIS fingerprints on it.

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                            • Originally posted by Ravage!!! View Post
                              What does it signify to me?? Nothing other than the coaches decided to go another way, or another coach intrigued their interest.

                              The point of the thread was to give reasons as to WHY to keep him...and thats what I was giving. The reasons to keep him, and the most logical reasons, are to give the guy a chance to do what he does... coach.

                              Its easy to look at the results after one year and just say 'fire everyone' (as we have seen so many people post). But thats not reasonable, and thats not logical, and although its a possibility, its not a likely scenario.

                              So it wouldn't signify anything to me. I'm not saying that I KNOW the best thing for this team is to keep Bates. I'm saying that there certainly are very logical reasons to keep him.

                              I don't like the idea of just firing him to fire him. I don't like firing coordinators after one year. I say that about other teams as well. People want to give credit to Wade Phillips and Norv Turner after one season of following VERY good coaches (I mean, we even saw Switzer win a SB with Johnson's team). But lets see what they do 2-3 years down the road when they have THEIR fingerprints on it.

                              Same here in Denver. We know that Bates is a GOOD coach. So it seems logical to think that we should see what this team is like 2-3 years when he has HIS fingerprints on it.
                              In your opinion, however, would you see the logical reasons in which Denver may part ways with him? And would you agree that there were logical reasonings behind us parting ways with Ray Rhodes after one season?
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                              • Can we change the title of this thread, please?

                                How about "Compelling reasons that mojo will ignore and dismiss completely about why Bates should stay -- Don't bother responding"?

                                That seems to be a more accurate title...
                                In Manning I trust.

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