Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Give me compelling reasons/arguments why Jim Bates should stay...

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • suzukilc
    replied
    Wrong Defense for the personnel on staff

    First, Coyer's defense was not near as bad as Bates - they actually did quite well for 58 minutes of a game and collapsed during the 'prevent defense time". His defense held us in games when the offense was quite enimic. Bates came in with a scheme that did not fit the personnel and tried to band-aid the situation during the season. What hurt, he already cut some D-lineman that are better than what he kept. If he can convince Mike that he can scheme for the talent, give him one more year

    Leave a comment:


  • Return of Lava
    replied
    Originally posted by mojo0730 View Post
    And I disagree. I think Bates had better personnel this season than Coyer had in his first season back in '03, and Coyer did a much better job managing the players he had and at least keeping the defense respectable, and actually improved the defense from year-to-year.

    You may disagree with that analysis. It's all a matter of interpretation whether or not you think we were more talented in '03 than in '07. But that's how I feel. I just think there was at least enough talent to have this defense perform significantly better than it did, and there were a lot of bad personnel decisions that were made that fall on Bates.
    ok, who was on the line back in '03

    Berry, Hayward, Pryce and who

    Leave a comment:


  • mojo0730
    replied
    Originally posted by Return of Lava View Post
    Did we even go to the playoffs in '03? I'm talkin about '05 the year Coyer had success on defense.

    The line still remains, it was an upgrade all acorss the line no question.

    Coyer is not a better DC than Bates, he had better personnel, period
    And I disagree. I think Bates had better personnel this season than Coyer had in his first season back in '03, and Coyer did a much better job managing the players he had and at least keeping the defense respectable, and actually improved the defense from year-to-year.

    You may disagree with that analysis. It's all a matter of interpretation whether or not you think we were more talented in '03 than in '07. But that's how I feel. I just think there was at least enough talent to have this defense perform significantly better than it did, and there were a lot of bad personnel decisions that were made that fall on Bates.

    Leave a comment:


  • javon84walker#1
    replied
    Originally posted by mojo0730 View Post
    There's clearly a measure of fandom around here that believes Jim Bates should be given at least one more season to coach the defense for the Broncos, but I have yet to hear a compelling argument or reason as to why that is, given the historic collapse of our defense and the embarrassing losses we endured as a result of our shotty defense.

    So, I'm ready to hear it - why exactly should Jim Bates return to the Broncos next season?
    Just off the top of my head...
    - First year
    - new system
    - young defence
    - john lynch and champ injured
    - short one linebacker

    Leave a comment:


  • Return of Lava
    replied
    Originally posted by mojo0730 View Post
    We did not have Lynch or Bailey in '03 - they didn't come until '04.
    Did we even go to the playoffs in '03? I'm talkin about '05 the year Coyer had success on defense.

    The line still remains, it was an upgrade all acorss the line no question.

    Coyer is not a better DC than Bates, he had better personnel, period

    Leave a comment:


  • mojo0730
    replied
    Originally posted by Return of Lava View Post
    We did have Lynch and Champ.

    See what you're not realizing is this year we had 3 rookies, Big Sam Adams, sack master (but not great run stopper) Dumervil, hustler Engleberger, and then Gordon/Burton.

    That is a way below decent line especially for stopping the run.

    Courtney Brown was the MVP of the line in '05 imo, I'd kill to have any one of those guys back, wouldnt you?
    We did not have Lynch or Bailey in '03 - they didn't come until '04.

    Leave a comment:


  • Return of Lava
    replied
    Originally posted by mojo0730 View Post
    Decent?

    Man, are we changing our tune. I've never heard anyone call our line during those years decent. Yeah, Pryce was a lone standout. But Hayward didn't have an impact until '04, and we dumped him afterwards. Fatafehi...he was alright, but nothing worth noting.

    Also don't forget that we didn't have Champ Bailey, Drey Bly, or John Lynch on that defense, either.
    We did have Lynch and Champ.

    See what you're not realizing is this year we had 3 rookies, Big Sam Adams, sack master (but not great run stopper) Dumervil, hustler Engleberger, and then Gordon/Burton.

    That is a way below decent line especially for stopping the run.

    Courtney Brown was the MVP of the line in '05 imo, I'd kill to have any one of those guys back, wouldnt you?

    Leave a comment:


  • mojo0730
    replied
    Originally posted by Return of Lava View Post
    Coyer never had as bad of personnel as we've had this year, and thast shanny's fault for starting Gordon and Burton, both compete nobodies.

    Coyer had a steady diet of Courtney Brown(beast), Gerard Warren, Trevor Pryce, Mario Fatafehi and Reggie Hayward and so on, he had decent linemen
    Decent?

    Man, are we changing our tune. I've never heard anyone call our line during those years decent. Yeah, Pryce was a lone standout. But Hayward didn't have an impact until '04, and we dumped him afterwards. Fatafehi...he was alright, but nothing worth noting.

    Also don't forget that we didn't have Champ Bailey, Drey Bly, or John Lynch on that defense, either.

    Leave a comment:


  • Return of Lava
    replied
    Originally posted by mojo0730 View Post
    I never said that I didn't believe Bates needs an upgrade to succeed. In fact, I've stated many times that I believe that is the only way for him to be successful.

    But I also believe that Coyer had limited/less talent than even Coyer back in '03, but still was able to keep the defense somewhat respectable and non-embarrassing.

    The same can't be said for Bates after season one.
    Coyer never had as bad of personnel as we've had this year, and thast shanny's fault for starting Gordon and Burton, both compete nobodies.

    Coyer had a steady diet of Courtney Brown(beast), Gerard Warren, Trevor Pryce, Mario Fatafehi and Reggie Hayward and so on, he had decent linemen

    Leave a comment:


  • mojo0730
    replied
    Originally posted by Return of Lava View Post
    It just makes the most sense to keep him, and progress to year 2.

    BATES has had success everywhere he has been, which has been stated umteen times already. He needs an upgrade in personnel.

    You keep saying you dont like that Bates needs an upgrade in personnel to suceed, ANY defense needs an upgrade from our personnel to succeed mojo.

    The BRONCOS just so happened to have the rotated D-Tackles high-in/low-out this year.
    I never said that I didn't believe Bates needs an upgrade to succeed. In fact, I've stated many times that I believe that is the only way for him to be successful.

    But I also believe that Coyer had limited/less talent than even Coyer back in '03, but still was able to keep the defense somewhat respectable and non-embarrassing.

    The same can't be said for Bates after season one.

    Leave a comment:


  • Return of Lava
    replied
    It just makes the most sense to keep him, and progress to year 2.

    BATES has had success everywhere he has been, which has been stated umteen times already. He needs an upgrade in personnel.

    You keep saying you dont like that Bates needs an upgrade in personnel to suceed, ANY defense needs an upgrade from our personnel to succeed mojo.

    The BRONCOS just so happened to have the rotated D-Tackles high-in/low-out this year.

    Leave a comment:


  • TheRealMoose
    replied
    Originally posted by mojo0730 View Post
    Find me a post where I told someone they were 'wrong' in their opinion. All I've done is disagree with people in a respectful manner - even if you don't see it.

    And I didn't say your opinion didn't matter. I said that I don't need to be told how I should be posting here, especially by someone that just started posting here.


    gotcha.

    Leave a comment:


  • mojo0730
    replied
    Originally posted by TheRealMoose View Post
    Oh, so I'm new and my opinion isn't worth as much. Got it. Thanks for the clarification.

    It wasn't until this page of this thread, and I believe we're on page 11 or 12 now, that you actually admitted that maybe firing a guy after one year wasn't the way to go. Did it really take that long for you to figure it out, or were you too busy trying not to listen to everyone else's opinion to make time for such a post?

    I don't have a problem with you per se, but you ask for people's opinions and then tell them they're wrong... seems like you should have saved the bandwidth and not asked in the first place.
    Find me a post where I told someone they were 'wrong' in their opinion. All I've done is disagree with people in a respectful manner - even if you don't see it.

    And I didn't say your opinion didn't matter. I said that I don't need to be told how I should be posting here, especially by someone that just started posting here.

    Leave a comment:


  • TheRealMoose
    replied
    Oh, so I'm new and my opinion isn't worth as much. Got it. Thanks for the clarification.

    It wasn't until this page of this thread, and I believe we're on page 11 or 12 now, that you actually admitted that maybe firing a guy after one year wasn't the way to go. Did it really take that long for you to figure it out, or were you too busy trying not to listen to everyone else's opinion to make time for such a post?

    I don't have a problem with you per se, but you ask for people's opinions and then tell them they're wrong... seems like you should have saved the bandwidth and not asked in the first place.

    Leave a comment:


  • mojo0730
    replied
    Originally posted by TheRealMoose View Post
    That's not the title of the thread, is it mojo?

    You want compelling reasons, the proceed to essentially tell anyone who GIVES you a compelling reason that they're idiots for seeing it differently than you.

    You should work on your tact, "my friend."
    I haven't called or implied anyone is an idiot. I'm simply trying to have a debate here, and have been completely respecful towards everyone's viewpoint even in disagreement, which is more than I can say for you.

    I don't need to be told by someone who just started posting here how to act or respond. I don't need anyone telling me that, for that matter. You can ask virtually anyone here, and they'll tell you I know what I'm talking about, even if they disagree with my overall opinion. I suggest if you don't like me or this post, you place me on ignore, and that should solve your problems with me.

    Leave a comment:

Working...
X