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Who/What is responsible for our defensive collapse in '07?

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  • Who/What is responsible for our defensive collapse in '07?

    Given Bates' termination from the Broncos, I thought it fitting to create a thread to see who or what fans here really think is the culprit with our poor defensive showing this season.

    So why was our defense so bad this season?
    37
    Jim Bates - thank God we fired him!
    37.84%
    14
    Bob Slowik - he failed Bates as a coordinator.
    5.41%
    2
    Larry Coyer - we were left dealing with the mess he created.
    5.41%
    2
    Mike Shanahan - his bad personnel decisons on the defensive side have really hurt this team.
    18.92%
    7
    Other (explain in post).
    32.43%
    12
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  • #2
    I've said numerous times that I think injuries, a new scheme, etc. are the reasons for the defense's collapse.
    In Manning I trust.

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    • #3
      Other- I blame the players
      My Opinion isn’t determined by what the Popular Opinion is. Sometimes I agree with the Majority, Sometimes I Don’t. If My Opinion is Different than Yours, I have to Ask One Question:
      You Mad Bro?
      Don’t Be A Mean Girl

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      • #4
        The defensive line.

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        • #5
          How about new player/starters/rookies/positions by players who weren't on the team?

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          • #6
            Originally posted by mojo0730 View Post
            Given Bates' termination from the Broncos, I thought it fitting to create a thread to see who or what fans here really think is the culprit with our poor defensive showing this season.

            So why was our defense so bad this season?
            First off, Bates resigned, he wasnt "terminated".

            Secondly, there were multiple things that hurt us this year. Not just one or two, multiple.
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            • #7
              Originally posted by Chidoze View Post
              First off, Bates resigned, he wasnt "terminated".

              Secondly, there were multiple things that hurt us this year. Not just one or two, multiple.
              Well...I guess if you consider being told that the only capacity the team wants you in is as linebacker's coach, after spending the season as Assistant Head Coach and you have aspirations to be a head coach in the NFL, then yeah I can see how you can interpret the events at Dove Valley today as Bates 'resigning'.

              Last edited by mojo0730; 01-08-2008, 07:33 PM.
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              • #8
                Normally I blame the players, but this year's collapse is on shanny. His horrible personnel desicions not only affected the defense but the offense as well, just destroyed any chemistry we had going. Its getting pretty bad around here.
                Last edited by Return of Lava; 01-08-2008, 07:41 PM.
                dont let him pull dat move on ya, dont let him pull that move.......................oh no dats da move! TOUCHDOWN!!!

                I tried to warn ya.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by mojo0730 View Post
                  Well...I guess if you consider being told that the only capacity the team wants you in is as linebacker's coach, after spending the season as Assistant Head Coach and you have aspirations to be a head coach in the NFL, then yeah I can see how you can interpret the events at Dove Valley today as Bates 'resigning'.

                  http://www.denverbroncos.com/page.ph...4&storyID=7719

                  ENGLEWOOD, Colo. -- Jim Bates stepped down as assistant head coach/defense on Tuesday, nine days after completing what turned out to be his sole campaign along Denver's sidelines.
                  ....................
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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Chidoze View Post
                    ....................
                    http://cbs4denver.com/broncos/bronco....2.625640.html

                    CBS4's Gary Miller has learned that Bates was offered the job as linebackers coach, but declined.
                    .....

                    FYI...I wouldn't trust the Broncos' homepage to be the most unbiased source of information regarding the Broncos from here on out.
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                    • #11
                      I chose other. Here's why:

                      Bates inherited a squad devoid of talent at all major positions except cornerback. Bates and his system, it could be argued, could only be as good as its worst player(s). With that premise, this D was destined to be exactly what they were-NOT VERY GOOD.

                      Bates, in the time he was here, added some key players that can help us for quite some time in Marcus Thomas, Tim Crowder (still more to be seen there), and Jarvis Moss. Winbourn was brought in by Bates as well and really seemed to flourish under his tutiledge, something he didnt do anywhere else. So the signs were there that Bates was getting things turned around. That said, turning things around with youngsters did NOTHING for us this season. He was still forced to play a line that had no experience together as well as a LB crew. We had new players at corner (Bly and later Paymah) and a new safety in Abdullah (who will be a hard hitting stud). So there was no experience as a whole unit, no cohesion, and a new system.

                      What got us here you might ask? Impatience had a little to do with it. More than anything is a coach who learned from the first two SB's that you can get by with a spotty D. He continued to look for the quick fix coordinator or scheme. In with one coordinator one year (Coyer, Rhoades, et. al) and out with them soon after. With each DC came turnover at each phase of the D. One brought the Browncos in. Another brought speed back to the LB's with Gold. Another went to work on the fundamentals. So there has been a ton of turnover with each DC wanting "his guys," a lot of turnover in the D coaching department, and then the injuries! Needless to say, it left us with a mish mash of players and a DC who need to create a miracle.

                      In the end, I guess I could blame Shanny for not having the wherewithall to admit he doesn't know D talent if it were to come knocking on his door. He was impatient with the idea that we were a play or player away from the SB and in believing that didn't look at the D's long term needs!

                      So...I will change my vote to Shanny.

                      Before I do, I wonder (and ask you) if you think our D will be any better (fundamentally i.e. not flawed i.e. based on the blitz i.e. Coyer and not able to be exposed in the playoffs i.e. AFC Champ) next year? If you do, what makes you think/ believe that?

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by jhildebrand View Post
                        Before I do, I wonder (and ask you) if you think our D will be any better (fundamentally i.e. not flawed i.e. based on the blitz i.e. Coyer and not able to be exposed in the playoffs i.e. AFC Champ) next year? If you do, what makes you think/ believe that?
                        I think it will be better because our injured players will have returned, our rookies would have had a full year under their belt, and from all indications, Slowik has been running the defense since the bye week, and the defense had been improved somewhat thereafter.

                        How much better, however, is another story. Until Denver gets someone who knows what they're doing when drafting or otherwise bringing in defensive linemen, I don't think this defense will ever be anything to write home about.
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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by mojo0730 View Post
                          http://cbs4denver.com/broncos/bronco....2.625640.html



                          .....

                          FYI...I wouldn't trust the Broncos' homepage to be the most unbiased source of information regarding the Broncos from here on out.
                          http://cbs4denver.com/broncos/bronco....2.625640.html
                          DENVER (CBS4/AP) ― Denver Broncos defensive boss Jim Bates resigned on Tuesday after the team limped to a 7-9 record in his first year on the job."

                          That is from the very link you provided. He resigned.

                          It's water under the bridge anyways, I'm not arguing with a brick wall about whether he resigned or was fired.

                          I think you argue just to argue sometimes mojo......
                          sigpic

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by mojo0730 View Post
                            I think it will be better because our injured players will have returned, our rookies would have had a full year under their belt, and from all indications, Slowik has been running the defense since the bye week, and the defense had been improved somewhat thereafter.

                            How much better, however, is another story. Until Denver gets someone who knows what they're doing when drafting or otherwise bringing in defensive linemen, I don't think this defense will ever be anything to write home about.
                            Those are all reasons to hope. I guess (maybe after reading all your posts) that I don't give them much for the injury excuse. The Jags have had injuries all year and in the WC game and people stepped up!

                            I think I have the most hope with the idea they will have had a season under their belt together but I think that is negated if we are wrong about Slowik having been running things since the bye or if another big shot comes to town (save Wade Phillips or Mike Singletary). Finally, as far as I know, Shanny will still be in charge of all player personnel including the Draft and the D side of the ball specifically.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Chidoze View Post
                              That is from the very link you provided. He resigned.

                              It's water under the bridge anyways, I'm not arguing with a brick wall about whether he resigned or was fired.
                              If you want to get technical about it, then yes - he resigned. I won't get into a needless argument because you are clearly defensive with your responses to my posts.

                              However, I think asking an assistant head coach like Bates to become a position's coach, working under his former protege, is in effect, terminating him, because no human being with an ounce of pride would take that kind of demotion with the same team. If you disagree, that's fine. But I doubt many would see a demotion-or-leave scenario as anything but a termination.
                              sigpic

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