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  • Bates Stepping Down - Good or No?

    I personally believe that it is a horrible thing. You can't transform a defense into a top ranked one in one season. Look at Miami and GB. They were horrible for a few seasons before coming back. This only delays the defense transformation for another year. There are a few DCs who can transform the defense in an offseason, but chances are the Broncos won't get one. Silly move IMO, Bates felt the pressure and I guess he couldn't handle another season.

    Debate on this.
    25
    Good
    52.00%
    13
    Bad
    40.00%
    10
    I just like blaming someone since Coyer and Plummer are gone.
    8.00%
    2

  • #2
    I just think with the way Shanahan runs this organization, and the overhaul the defense needed to get Bates' system to work, it just was never a good fit. This would have made sense for a team coming off a 3-13 season, and had the time/patience/understanding to build a defense over 2-3 seasons. But for a team that already had a pretty decent defense as it was, was 9-7, and was one-win away from the playoffs, no one -especially Shanahan - was willing to take the time and spend the money to make his defense work.

    I also think it's fool-hearty to believe that it was as simple as getting a couple of DTs. If it were that easy just to pick up a couple of capable, run-plugging DTs, I doubt Robinson or Coyer would have ever been fired.
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    • #3
      Originally posted by mojo0730 View Post
      I just think with the way Shanahan runs this organization, and the overhaul the defense needed to get Bates' system to work, it just was never a good fit. This would have made sense for a team coming off a 3-13 season, and had the time/patience/understanding to build a defense over 2-3 seasons. But for a team that already had a pretty decent defense as it was, was 9-7, and was one-win away from the playoffs, no one -especially Shanahan - was willing to take the time and spend the money to make his defense work.

      I also think it's fool-hearty to believe that it was as simple as getting a couple of DTs. If it were that easy just to pick up a couple of capable, run-plugging DTs, I doubt Robinson or Coyer would have ever been fired.
      I guess Shanny wasn't impressed by the bandaid. I guess it kept falling off during the season.

      Bates shouldn't have stepped down. If I were him, I'd make a challenge to the couch-coaches and see if they can do any better. It's just not feasible to expect a whole new top ten defense in just one offseason/season. Unless Shanny & Co. can bring in someone magical who can work wonders with current personnel, I just don't see a top 10 defense for at least two more years.

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      • #4
        The system that Bates was running just didn't work with the players we have. It really says something when the defense starts improvising instead of attempting to run the defense that Bates was doing.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by NickTranOwnz View Post
          I guess Shanny wasn't impressed by the bandaid. I guess it kept falling off during the season.

          Bates shouldn't have stepped down. If I were him, I'd make a challenge to the couch-coaches and see if they can do any better. It's just not feasible to expect a whole new top ten defense in just one offseason/season. Unless Shanny & Co. can bring in someone magical who can work wonders with current personnel, I just don't see a top 10 defense for at least two more years.
          Well...although he did 'offically' step down, he was basically asked to take a demotion to the linebacker's coach and turned it down.
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          • #6
            Considering Shanahan is going with Bob Slowik, I'd say Bates "Stepping down" is a bad thing......

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            • #7
              Good an Bad, it is good because Slowik will not ask for a atrocious number of additions to the defense. His style is the closer to a general Cover Two scheme, 'Bend Don't Break' and right now I think Shanahan will go heavy offense in the draft, Lynch is likely returning, they will more then likely re-sign Abdullah, with Slowik's blitz heavy scheme I see Gold, Winborn, Webster and Williams all returning in the linebacker corps. And with the number of defensive ends that can rush the passer, if we sign one defensive tackle in Free Agency, I do not see us doing anything else. I think they may re-sign Paymah and Foxworth this way as well, that way Foxworth can come in at safety on third downs. To me it looks like the best way to utilize the potential we already have without having to rob the market! We may just surprise people if we can get the offense to be dominant.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by lancane View Post
                Good an Bad, it is good because Slowik will not ask for a atrocious number of additions to the defense. His style is the closer to a general Cover Two scheme, 'Bend Don't Break' and right now I think Shanahan will go heavy offense in the draft, Lynch is likely returning, they will more then likely re-sign Abdullah, with Slowik's blitz heavy scheme I see Gold, Winborn, Webster and Williams all returning in the linebacker corps. And with the number of defensive ends that can rush the passer, if we sign one defensive tackle in Free Agency, I do not see us doing anything else. I think they may re-sign Paymah and Foxworth this way as well, that way Foxworth can come in at safety on third downs. To me it looks like the best way to utilize the potential we already have without having to rob the market! We may just surprise people if we can get the offense to be dominant.

                I agree 110%. We need to get our offense to be like the Colts and put up points on anyone at anytime.

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                • #9
                  good

                  i am glad bates is gone. from what i saw this season his style didn fit our style. you can say o u cant make a good defence in one season with a new coach.well look at the chargers. they got a new defence coach this year and they are a top defence. the funny thing is we have two very good cornerbacks a awesome safty and some fast linebackers. but with one good defence lineman its hard to stop the run but we have all that speed n the back.we have the tallent we have all the pieces we need to put them together and go back to when we were beating up teams like the patriots. get 2 more dl that can sack and put pressure and bam we got a heel of a defence.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by lancane View Post
                    Good an Bad, it is good because Slowik will not ask for a atrocious number of additions to the defense. His style is the closer to a general Cover Two scheme, 'Bend Don't Break' and right now I think Shanahan will go heavy offense in the draft, Lynch is likely returning, they will more then likely re-sign Abdullah, with Slowik's blitz heavy scheme I see Gold, Winborn, Webster and Williams all returning in the linebacker corps. And with the number of defensive ends that can rush the passer, if we sign one defensive tackle in Free Agency, I do not see us doing anything else. I think they may re-sign Paymah and Foxworth this way as well, that way Foxworth can come in at safety on third downs. To me it looks like the best way to utilize the potential we already have without having to rob the market! We may just surprise people if we can get the offense to be dominant.

                    And let's be realistic - the Broncos can only function with the simple, blitz-heavy, 'bend-but-don't-break' style of defense under Shanahan. Any time they bring in a D-Coordinator with a reputation and who wants to build a 'quality, consistent' defense, they're out the door at season's end, as we've seen now with Bates and Rhodes. We're never going to have a dominant defensive line under Shanahan period. So why not just build towards our HC's strength, which is no doubt the offense, and try to outscore the opposing offense, rather than stop them outright?
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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by bjpenn View Post
                      I agree 110%. We need to get our offense to be like the Colts and put up points on anyone at anytime.
                      our offence is really good and have amazing talent. we need to stick with our dl and ol more then just one year. every year its not the same people.

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                      • #12
                        Super Bowl Formula

                        Originally posted by mojo0730 View Post
                        And let's be realistic - the Broncos can only function with the simple, blitz-heavy, 'bend-but-don't-break' style of defense under Shanahan. Any time they bring in a D-Coordinator with a reputation and who wants to build a 'quality, consistent' defense, they're out the door at season's end, as we've seen now with Bates and Rhodes. We're never going to have a dominant defensive line under Shanahan period. So why not just build towards our HC's strength, which is no doubt the offense, and try to outscore the opposing offense, rather than stop them outright?
                        to win a super bowl you have to have a better defence then their offence.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by mojo0730 View Post
                          And let's be realistic - the Broncos can only function with the simple, blitz-heavy, 'bend-but-don't-break' style of defense under Shanahan. Any time they bring in a D-Coordinator with a reputation and who wants to build a 'quality, consistent' defense, they're out the door at season's end, as we've seen now with Bates and Rhodes. We're never going to have a dominant defensive line under Shanahan period. So why not just build towards our HC's strength, which is no doubt the offense, and try to outscore the opposing offense, rather than stop them outright?
                          This coming from the BIGGEST "fire Bates" person on the board!! You were the very person that didn't think the DC needed time to build his defense, and deserved to be fired. Now you want to make it sound as though Shanahan is crazy?

                          You can't have it both ways, mojo. Shanahan did exactly what you wanted him to do... then you want to sound as though you are criticizing for not giving the DC's time.......

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                          • #14
                            If Slowik wants to run a base Cover 2 scheme, then Ian Gold is definitely returning next season.

                            A while back I had a thread breaking down the basics of a Cover 2. I'll rebump it.

                            But basically, Cover 2 demands good pass rushing DL, fast linebackers to hit the hole or get into coverage, and GREAT zone safeties to cover the deep halves. Corners are relegated to a weaker role - bump the receiver and jam him at the LOS and watch the flats.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Football God View Post
                              our offence is really good and have amazing talent. we need to stick with our dl and ol more then just one year. every year its not the same people.
                              Ummm...that is one opinion, the other is that the offensive line needs a bit of an upgrade, we need a true franchise halfback, a good fullback and another receiver, even if Walker stays we should add one more to the roster, helps in five wide sets, you know? Where as the defensive line is one dominant tackle away from being quite good, and that is my opinion of course!

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