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Beware what you wish for in wanting Javon gone!

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  • #16
    Originally posted by AllEyezOnZach27 View Post
    Doesnt really sound like Shanny knows anything for sure. Could be and will have sound very different to me. He also says, WE REALLY DONT KNOW. Which means to me that the team really doesnt know!
    Sounds like he knows for sure he at least needs it...

    Doesn't really matter *when* does his knee need it, unless you feel confident he can play for the next 4-5 seasons on a degenerating knee. And no matter what, Denver isn't going to pay a player the kind of money Javon's due. He's goint to have to restructure - something he's stated he will not do.
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    • #17
      Originally posted by mojo0730 View Post
      He's goint to have to restructure - something he's stated he will not do.
      Although... as we've seen in the past with different players.... those hard stances change.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Ravage!!! View Post
        Although... as we've seen in the past with different players.... those hard stances change.
        That's true.

        And I think Shanahan dropping that microfracture surgery in the conference today was an attempt to gain back some leverage the Broncos lost when Javon went public last week.

        Now Javon is in a bind. He's either going to have to take the paycut and stay, or Denver will cut him. Good luck finding a team that will pay him more money than Denver will when he has that type of injury lingering over him.
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        • #19
          Originally posted by mojo0730 View Post
          That's true.

          And I think Shanahan dropping that microfracture surgery in the conference today was an attempt to gain back some leverage the Broncos lost when Javon went public last week.

          Now Javon is in a bind. He's either going to have to take the paycut and stay, or Denver will cut him. Good luck finding a team that will pay him more money than Denver will when he has that type of injury lingering over him.
          Exactly..................

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          • #20
            Guys I am just as huge on Brandon as anybody. I think he's going to be nothing short of amazing. However, a healthy Javon Walker IS now the better receiver. His hands and his instincts are better, along with his veteran status give him the upper hand. But I think we we all know who you'd rather have the ball in the open field .

            Having Javon Walker back next season would be nothing short of HUGE!!!

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Zealander View Post
              Guys I am just as huge on Brandon as anybody. I think he's going to be nothing short of amazing. However, a healthy Javon Walker IS now the better receiver. His hands and his instincts are better, along with his veteran status give him the upper hand. But I think we we all know who you'd rather have the ball in the open field .

              Having Javon Walker back next season would be nothing short of HUGE!!!
              Again...only if he's healthy.

              Otherwise, what's the point? We saw what an unhealthy Javon can do for us the last quarter of the season.
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              • #22
                The reason I want him back is that I think he will get better over the offseason and heal up. I really do.

                But there is always that "what if"

                For the money he wants he is too high a price for "damaged goods"


                He could still be a threat at #2.
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                • #23
                  Originally posted by mjwrenrn View Post
                  Because with all our other needs, it just isn't feasible to have a #2(1b) WR with a $7+ million cap hit on the roster.
                  Jeopardy Lightning Round: And the question is: "Why Can't The Broncos Keep Javon Walker!"

                  And we have a WINNER!

                  Normally, a team and player will re-negotiate the contract if the player remains valuable to the team.

                  This is just normal NFL contracts 101.

                  Most contracts are backweighted for cap reasons. No player contracts are guaranteed, so the only money the player is guaranteed is the signing bonus and any roster bonus with a buyout clause. The team can cut the player, but that triggers the buyout provisions and the player gets the remainder of his guaranteed money.

                  What teams do is convert the backweighted portion of the salary into a NEW signing bonus over the lifetime of the contract. This spreads out the cap hit over the remaining contract.

                  The Broncos anticipated doing that with Javon, the way they have done with Rod Smith for years. It benefits the player because he gets more money up front and the team has a smaller cap hit.

                  But, the team and Javon fell out. Javon was injured and ineffective and the team is uncertain he will recover. Meanwhile Brandon Marshall has emerged as the best 2nd year WR in the NFL, so he's going to be the #1 next year, even if Javon stays.

                  Javon becomes unhappy. He doesn't think he should lose his #1 position just because he's injured and has no intention of re-negotiating his contract, because he knows what the Broncos want to do is not back-weight his salary and give him another big signing bonus, they want to give him a Pay CUT!

                  This situation is very much like the one with Trevor Pryce that led to Trevor walking over to the Ravens.

                  Javon has a lot of leverage because of that buyout clause. He will essentially be paid even if he doesn't play this season, or even if he takes a low salary somewhere else. If he's a FA he can go to any team that will give him a 1 year contract for the veteran minimum -- with incentive clauses. Then, if he has a good year next year he becomes a highly sought after (and paid) FA.

                  The only thing the Broncos can do is trade him to a team that will promise to absorb much of the cap hit. Then that new team can re-negotiate a more cap-friendly contract with Javon in exchange for giving him another big signing bonus.

                  The problem with this scenario is that teams aren't going to want to give Javon a long-term contract unless they are sure he's going to remain healthy. And how can they think that right now? He's been injured 2 of the last 3 years with the same knee injury. That's not a good sign if you're a WR who depends on speed and elusiveness to be useful.

                  So, bottom line, Javon will probably be cut, the team will absorb a huge cap hit and have used a high #2 pick in 2006 for a player who only gave them 1 good year. Not at all a good trade!
                  Last edited by Cugel; 01-10-2008, 03:38 PM.
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                  • #24
                    All the talent in the world is useless if it isn't paired with a genuine and passionate desire to play for the team you are on. Walker can backpedal all he wants but he has all but stated that he doesn't want to play for Denver next year. Given that I hope he is gone by training camp. There are many examples of highly talented players (receivers specifically: see Moss in Oakland, Keyshawn in Tampa, etc) who failed to produce at a level they could have without the desire to play in their current environment. Pile on top of that his injury-prone body he is not worth the price tag. We have a solid #1 receiver in Marshall, a solid slot in Stokely and solid tight ends. That leaves us with a need for a number 2 deep threat receiver for next year.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Shanahanaramjam View Post
                      Remember we were just an qaverage offense at best w/out him. We actually were a terrible redzone offense w/out him. With him he makes everyone much, much better!
                      Marshall is just as good if not better, we won't miss Walker one bit. I hope we trade him to Minnesota for Chester Tayler heads up. It makes sense for both teams, we need a strong hard runner who doesn't smoke weed and get injured every year and the Vikes need receiver. The combo between Marshall and Stokley was good, just add another burner to stretch the field and we are golden

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Bronco_Armada View Post
                        The reason I want him back is that I think he will get better over the offseason and heal up. I really do.

                        But there is always that "what if"

                        For the money he wants he is too high a price for "damaged goods"


                        He could still be a threat at #2.
                        I think if what Mike Shanahan says about his knee is true - that in about 2 seasons or so, he'll need microfracture surgery - then Javon is living on borrowed time and a degenerative knee.

                        With that revelation, we have to accept the likelihood that Javon will never be the same player he was last season or in '04, and if that's the case, why keep him when he's going to publicly complain about the team if he gets frustrated, demand the ball be thrown his way, and refuse to take a paycut?

                        There's just so much going against Javon right now. In a small way, I do feel sorry for him, because I think he's in denial about his knee right now. But to quote Javon, 'I just don't see it happening here for Javon'.
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                        • #27
                          javon is gonna take up 5mill still if he is or isnt a bronco next yr so we mite as well try for a paycut if not just keep him. at worst trade him but DONT cut him...that would be a huge mistake.

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