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How New Broncos D-Coordinator Bob Slowik Did In Green Bay!

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Cugel View Post
    They don't have the players for it, and Shanahan doesn't like it. First of all they'd need a massive NT like Casey Hampton, Jamal Williams, Vince Wilfork.
    Really?

    I think Josh Mallard would be the dominant NT that we could use for the 3-4.





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    • #17
      "Quote" He's been so successful at it that teams have mostly abandoned trying to blitz him and try to get good pressure just with their front 4 while dropping the LBs into coverage. "Quote"

      Wel San Diego sure gives him fits with their blitz packages.. If you don't get any pressure on brady or Peyton you will lose regardless of the secondary. Time in the pocket is one of the reasons that the pats and Colts are so successful. If you cannot get in the backfield with your front 4 then they will pick you apart. Look back at mannings carrer and the only time he is less thab great is when someone is getting in his face. If the front four can't do it then you better blitz.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Cugel View Post
        This comes up every off-season!

        The Broncos are NEVER going to go to a 3-4 defense! NEVER!

        They don't have the players for it, and Shanahan doesn't like it. First of all they'd need a massive NT like Casey Hampton, Jamal Williams, Vince Wilfork.

        They aren't likely to get that kind of player.

        Second, their LBs aren't suited for a 3-4 either. Basically, they'd have to scrap the entire defensive front 7 to have that system and Shanahan will never do it.

        As in NOT Ever!
        Based on performance, Im willing to scrap just about everybody in our front 7 (minus Dumervil and DJ, and perhaps the rooks).

        Granted, this transformation would take at the very least 3-4 years. But never say never cug. I always toss this possibility around in my mind, but never seriously, of course. Then again take a look at alot of great defenses around the league. SD, Pit, NE, DAL... they all run the 3-4, and they are all known for their consistency against the run and the pass.

        Not saying it will ever happen, but Shanny does love to win, and 3-4 defenses win.

        Just out of curiousity, lets see how our roster would look if we did move to the 3-4 :

        DE: John Engleberger -- I think the 3-4 end would be a great fit for him, he's a runstopper and thats what the ends are supposed to do in the 3-4.
        NT: Hmm....really no one here that would fit. Marcus Thomas isnt this type of play, so maybe pick up a guy...say, isnt Haynesworth a FA?
        DE: Tim Crowder -- Alot like Engleberger, he's not much of a get-after-the-QB kinda guy, plus he has a big frame. Maybe a good fit.

        OLB: Elvis Dumervil -- Clearly a great edge rusher, could flat get after the QB from here on passing situations. But would take a while to adjust to runs.
        ILB: DJ Williams -- Not really suited for this spot. Could put him out on the edge similar to what Joey Porter did. Either way, we wouldnt be utilizing his talents fully.
        ILB: Nate Webster -- Or draft someone else. But I like Nate, he brings the wood.
        OLB: Jarvis Moss -- I think the OLB in the 3-4 is the PERFECT postion for Moss. He just seems like he's the Demarcus Ware/Shawn Phillips type edge rusher. Love his speed, I think if the switch would work for anyone, its him.


        Just food for thought...still wont happen


        My 2007 Adopt a Broncos are Brandon Marshall and Erica Weston

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        • #19
          Originally posted by mid_evil_thymz View Post
          "Quote" He's been so successful at it that teams have mostly abandoned trying to blitz him and try to get good pressure just with their front 4 while dropping the LBs into coverage. "Quote"

          Wel San Diego sure gives him fits with their blitz packages.. If you don't get any pressure on brady or Peyton you will lose regardless of the secondary. Time in the pocket is one of the reasons that the pats and Colts are so successful. If you cannot get in the backfield with your front 4 then they will pick you apart. Look back at mannings carrer and the only time he is less thab great is when someone is getting in his face. If the front four can't do it then you better blitz.
          San Diego is a 3-4 defense. So is the Patriots! They rush their extra LB and disguise coverages. They are usually getting pressure with just 4 guys. Jamal Williams and Vince Wilfork are occupying 2 blockers and opening up the rush lanes for the others.

          Of course, you're right that you can't sit back in a cover 2 with no pressure and stop Brady or Manning. There has to be constant pressure in their faces.

          But, you can't blitz 5 or 6 guys to get that pressure consistently or they'll simply go to the open man for big yardage.

          The only teams that can successfully beat either of those guys are ones that get great pressure with their front 4, whether that is a 3-4 or 4-3, and disguises their coverages. They have to hit Manning often and throw him off his rhythm, force him to throw before he's ready, and knock him around.
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          • #20
            Originally posted by TheFuture6 View Post
            Based on performance, Im willing to scrap just about everybody in our front 7 (minus Dumervil and DJ, and perhaps the rooks).

            Granted, this transformation would take at the very least 3-4 years. But never say never cug. I always toss this possibility around in my mind, but never seriously, of course. Then again take a look at alot of great defenses around the league. SD, Pit, NE, DAL... they all run the 3-4, and they are all known for their consistency against the run and the pass.

            Not saying it will ever happen, but Shanny does love to win, and 3-4 defenses win.

            Just out of curiousity, lets see how our roster would look if we did move to the 3-4 :

            DE: John Engleberger -- I think the 3-4 end would be a great fit for him, he's a runstopper and thats what the ends are supposed to do in the 3-4.
            NT: Hmm....really no one here that would fit. Marcus Thomas isnt this type of play, so maybe pick up a guy...say, isnt Haynesworth a FA?
            DE: Tim Crowder -- Alot like Engleberger, he's not much of a get-after-the-QB kinda guy, plus he has a big frame. Maybe a good fit.

            OLB: Elvis Dumervil -- Clearly a great edge rusher, could flat get after the QB from here on passing situations. But would take a while to adjust to runs.
            ILB: DJ Williams -- Not really suited for this spot. Could put him out on the edge similar to what Joey Porter did. Either way, we wouldnt be utilizing his talents fully.
            ILB: Nate Webster -- Or draft someone else. But I like Nate, he brings the wood.
            OLB: Jarvis Moss -- I think the OLB in the 3-4 is the PERFECT postion for Moss. He just seems like he's the Demarcus Ware/Shawn Phillips type edge rusher. Love his speed, I think if the switch would work for anyone, its him.


            Just food for thought...still wont happen
            Both Engelberger and Crowder would be better suited for OLB in a 3-4, imo, but neither is a perfect fit.

            ProFootballWeekly said a lot of teams were looking at Crowder as a 3-4 OLB, and Engelberger seems like a player the Patriots could put to good use.

            But neither is a 3-4 DE......

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            • #21
              Originally posted by stnzed View Post
              Both Engelberger and Crowder would be better suited for OLB in a 3-4, imo, but neither is a perfect fit.

              ProFootballWeekly said a lot of teams were looking at Crowder as a 3-4 OLB, and Engelberger seems like a player the Patriots could put to good use.

              But neither is a 3-4 DE......
              Really??? Crowder as a 3-4 OLB? Hmm, I dont know why, I just dont see it. He just doesnt seem like he can get after the passer, plus he's got so much size (I think he weighs 270ish) thats not really the look of a 3-4 OLB. Interesting though.


              My 2007 Adopt a Broncos are Brandon Marshall and Erica Weston

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              • #22
                Originally posted by TheFuture6 View Post
                Really??? Crowder as a 3-4 OLB? Hmm, I dont know why, I just dont see it. He just doesnt seem like he can get after the passer, plus he's got so much size (I think he weighs 270ish) thats not really the look of a 3-4 OLB. Interesting though.
                Getting more cred all the time eh?
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                • #23
                  Originally posted by TheFuture6 View Post
                  Really??? Crowder as a 3-4 OLB? Hmm, I dont know why, I just dont see it. He just doesnt seem like he can get after the passer, plus he's got so much size (I think he weighs 270ish) thats not really the look of a 3-4 OLB. Interesting though.

                  270 is tiny for a 3-4 DE, (It's just perfect for a Shanahan DT......I've been expecting that move since the day they drafted him) but Merriman is 272, Shaun Phillips is 262......Anthony Spencer is 262, and he's only the greatest player ever!

                  My point is, Crowder would be better off dropping a bit of weight and play standing up, than bulking up and disappearing inside, imo.

                  But Nolan Nawrocki wrote that some teams were looking at Crowder as a 3-4 rush linebacker.

                  Fwiw, Shanahan probably agrees with you, and I fully expect him to move Crowder to DT and tell us all how he's going to be The Next Cory Redding.

                  Hell! He even had Dumervil playing DT at one point, so I'd bet anything he'll do the same with Crowder......

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                  • #24
                    I am actually going to go into next season with an open mind for Slowik.

                    Just like Jim Bates said he didn't have the personel for his scheme here, maybe Slowik didn't have the personnel for his. But until we get about 3 or so games in, I will not say one bad thing about Slowik.
                    Very happy to have Tebow in orange and blue!!!

                    Team Tebow #16

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                    • #25
                      I hope that Shanahan is right this time. There is no way that another DC can be used as the scape goat if the Broncos miss the post season. :paper:

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by stnzed View Post
                        270 is tiny for a 3-4 DE, (It's just perfect for a Shanahan DT......I've been expecting that move since the day they drafted him) but Merriman is 272, Shaun Phillips is 262......Anthony Spencer is 262, and he's only the greatest player ever!

                        My point is, Crowder would be better off dropping a bit of weight and play standing up, than bulking up and disappearing inside, imo.

                        But Nolan Nawrocki wrote that some teams were looking at Crowder as a 3-4 rush linebacker.

                        Fwiw, Shanahan probably agrees with you, and I fully expect him to move Crowder to DT and tell us all how he's going to be The Next Cory Redding.

                        Hell! He even had Dumervil playing DT at one point, so I'd bet anything he'll do the same with Crowder......
                        You all do realize that this is totally an academic exercise in futility right?

                        Shanahan will NEVER go to a 3-4 defense. He doesn't like it. But, don't take my word for it, go to part 2 of his interview on this web-site and listen for yourself as he talks about how he wants to get back to the same scheme the Broncos have used the last 12 years that he thinks is successful.

                        He fired the only 2 defensive-coordinators (Robinson and Bates) who deviated from his scheme.

                        Look at what happened to Bates! He came in this season, and had bunch of totally crappy DTs, plus 1 rookie in Marcus Thomas who might be really good in 2 years, but who is certainly not ready to start in the NFL right now. The team was slow to pick up the system and Shanahan basically canned it and put Slowik in charge of the defense after 4 games!

                        So much for you Jim Bates! NEXT!

                        Shanahan put up with endless failures for years, so long as it was HIS system they were using. But the minute somebody wants to change - it better work after 4 games or else! He even claims that he never fired Coyer, that there were other personal reasons for letting him go, and that he wasn't unahappy with the system that totally collapsed in the last part of the 2006 seasion, costing the Broncos a chance at the playoffs.

                        He thinks that "we were a top 10 defense all these years", so apparently it's good enough. From my perspective the Broncos defense was NEVER, not ONCE in the 2000's good enough for this team to win a championship. They had that horrible "bend but don't break" crap and inevitably when you get to the playoffs it broke! That **** just doesn't work against the really top teams like the Pats and Colts. Manning and Brady are just too good. You need a monster defense that can generate intense pressure with just 4 pass-rushers while disguising coverages and dropping 7 into coverage to blanket their receivers while the line pummels the QB.

                        That kind of defense worked against Manning 3 years in a row when the Pats and Steelers were winning championships, and it nearly worked for the Pats least year. But, instead of trying to get a defense like that. . . .

                        It's back to the same system that got the Broncos crushed in the AFC Championship in 2005. I'm not at all looking forward to the Patriots game next season. I'm thinking I'm going to somewhere for that weekend and miss the out on the bloodletting.
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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Cugel View Post
                          A blitz happy scheme is particularly BAD in the AFC because QBs like Tom Brady, Ben Roethlisberger and Peyton Manning LOVE the blitz. They eat it alive.
                          The whole statement above is B.S.

                          Tom Brady had his worse game of the year playing against blitz-happy Baltimore. If you give even the worse QB in the league enough time, a reciever will eventually get open. I don't care if you have the whole defense back there covering, eventually someone will get open.

                          Brady and Manning have excellent O-lines and rarely get sacked or hurried. You are not going to get consistant pressure on either QB, with just the front four. They simply stand back there, scan the field, check off recievers, have a cup of coffee and throw it to the reciever that gets separation.

                          Pressure on the QB combined with press coverage is the best way to disrupt the Colts and Patriots timing offenses.

                          The blitzes need to be well-disguised, unpredictable and coming from all angles to have success.

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                          • #28
                            it's not that blitzing is bad, some of peyton, big ben and bradys biggest losses came at the hands of a good blitzing defense. the key is the find the right balance. know when to blitz, don't just recklessly do it all the time. disguise it, surprise them and by the second half they'll be thinking so much they won't be able to just "do it" without thinking. it won't be natural anymore and they'll be off their game. rent space in the mind of the opponent. it works.

                            the key will be-can we find that balance?
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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by NinjaPirateFunk View Post
                              it's not that blitzing is bad, some of peyton, big ben and bradys biggest losses came at the hands of a good blitzing defense. the key is the find the right balance. know when to blitz, don't just recklessly do it all the time. disguise it, surprise them and by the second half they'll be thinking so much they won't be able to just "do it" without thinking. it won't be natural anymore and they'll be off their game. rent space in the mind of the opponent. it works.

                              the key will be-can we find that balance?
                              This is the truth. I'll add to it and say that you also need the right talent. No 4-3 can use the blitz as its source of pressure on the QB. The front 4 has to be able to get decent pressure on their own. Further, the blitzers need to have a certain ability to get to the QB as well. You could rush 6 guys, but if none of them have pass rushing instincts it won't matter.

                              Unfortunately, that's been some of the problem the Broncos have had over the years. Independently, their front 4 wasn't particularly good at pressuring the QB. Now they have the potential with guys like Moss, Crowder, and Thomas. Hopefully they'll add some more to the mix as well. Then the key will be developing that potential - since at the moment that's all it is - potential.

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                              • #30
                                If that is Bates scheme in GB, looks like it works pretty well
                                dont let him pull dat move on ya, dont let him pull that move.......................oh no dats da move! TOUCHDOWN!!!

                                I tried to warn ya.

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