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How New Broncos D-Coordinator Bob Slowik Did In Green Bay!

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  • #31
    Originally posted by Return of Lava View Post
    If that is Bates scheme in GB, looks like it works pretty well
    It is more of a hybrid now. Basically they still use the DE's split wider (or it looks like it) but they don't have plugger DT's they usually have one who can penetrate in and then Picket or Jolly (who I think fit better as "pluggers")

    It is one reason why I was mad Bates left though... give him the horses and he knows what he is doing....
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    • #32
      Originally posted by JoRo View Post
      It is more of a hybrid now. Basically they still use the DE's split wider (or it looks like it) but they don't have plugger DT's they usually have one who can penetrate in and then Picket or Jolly (who I think fit better as "pluggers")

      It is one reason why I was mad Bates left though... give him the horses and he knows what he is doing....
      What a shame......even if he didn't leave Shanny basically canned him after 5 games...and disrespected one of the better defensive coordinators by offering him a chance at coaching the LB's.....
      Careful what you wish for, Darth , cause here comes the worst DC in the league...... -stnzd
      What's that? Need proof? http://dack.com/archive/bob-slowik-must-be-fired.html


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      • #33
        Originally posted by NinjaPirateFunk View Post
        it's not that blitzing is bad, some of peyton, big ben and bradys biggest losses came at the hands of a good blitzing defense. the key is the find the right balance. know when to blitz, don't just recklessly do it all the time. disguise it, surprise them and by the second half they'll be thinking so much they won't be able to just "do it" without thinking. it won't be natural anymore and they'll be off their game. rent space in the mind of the opponent. it works.

        the key will be-can we find that balance?
        That is the entire point. It's not that you can NEVER blitz, it's that if you need to blitz to succeed (as in 2005) then you get to the playoffs and get killed.

        If the Broncos went to the blitz-happy style of 2005 I would expect the defense to improve a lot during 2008. And everybody would be happy and talking about how eager they are to get to the playoffs, yada, yada, yada.

        And then the Broncos would run into teams you can't blitz and get killed. Just as they did in 2003, 2004 & 2005.
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        • #34
          Originally posted by Cugel View Post
          You all do realize that this is totally an academic exercise in futility right?

          Shanahan will NEVER go to a 3-4 defense. He doesn't like it. But, don't take my word for it, go to part 2 of his interview on this web-site and listen for yourself as he talks about how he wants to get back to the same scheme the Broncos have used the last 12 years that he thinks is successful.

          He fired the only 2 defensive-coordinators (Robinson and Bates) who deviated from his scheme.

          Look at what happened to Bates! He came in this season, and had bunch of totally crappy DTs, plus 1 rookie in Marcus Thomas who might be really good in 2 years, but who is certainly not ready to start in the NFL right now. The team was slow to pick up the system and Shanahan basically canned it and put Slowik in charge of the defense after 4 games!

          So much for you Jim Bates! NEXT!

          Shanahan put up with endless failures for years, so long as it was HIS system they were using. But the minute somebody wants to change - it better work after 4 games or else! He even claims that he never fired Coyer, that there were other personal reasons for letting him go, and that he wasn't unahappy with the system that totally collapsed in the last part of the 2006 seasion, costing the Broncos a chance at the playoffs.

          He thinks that "we were a top 10 defense all these years", so apparently it's good enough. From my perspective the Broncos defense was NEVER, not ONCE in the 2000's good enough for this team to win a championship. They had that horrible "bend but don't break" crap and inevitably when you get to the playoffs it broke! That **** just doesn't work against the really top teams like the Pats and Colts. Manning and Brady are just too good. You need a monster defense that can generate intense pressure with just 4 pass-rushers while disguising coverages and dropping 7 into coverage to blanket their receivers while the line pummels the QB.

          That kind of defense worked against Manning 3 years in a row when the Pats and Steelers were winning championships, and it nearly worked for the Pats least year. But, instead of trying to get a defense like that. . . .

          It's back to the same system that got the Broncos crushed in the AFC Championship in 2005. I'm not at all looking forward to the Patriots game next season. I'm thinking I'm going to somewhere for that weekend and miss the out on the bloodletting.
          I don't like the 3-4 either, and to honest, I don't think any of the players we've mentioned are a good fit.

          Here's hoping Shanahan hates the idea of a 3-4 as much as I do.

          As for Slowik's possible system, I'm not a big fan of that either, and no matter what people want to believe, you are absolutely right about Manning/Brady/R-berger (And their offensive lines) tearing the blitz apart.

          These posters are confusing a well coordinated blitz with the reckless Cover Zero, every down and distance blitzing we've seen before and will likely see from Slowik.

          The fact is you need an outstanding defensive line to have a chance with the top QB's in this conference, regardless of whether you run a 3-4 or a 4-3. You have to be sound, not desperate, to beat these guy's. And since Slowik has a JUNK defensive line, he's going to be desperate.

          Shanahan's system is BS......
          Last edited by stnzed; 01-12-2008, 09:22 PM.

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          • #35
            Originally posted by bucking bronco View Post
            The whole statement above is B.S.

            Tom Brady had his worse game of the year playing against blitz-happy Baltimore. If you give even the worse QB in the league enough time, a reciever will eventually get open. I don't care if you have the whole defense back there covering, eventually someone will get open.

            Brady and Manning have excellent O-lines and rarely get sacked or hurried. You are not going to get consistant pressure on either QB, with just the front four. They simply stand back there, scan the field, check off recievers, have a cup of coffee and throw it to the reciever that gets separation.

            Pressure on the QB combined with press coverage is the best way to disrupt the Colts and Patriots timing offenses.

            The blitzes need to be well-disguised, unpredictable and coming from all angles to have success.
            It's not B.S. at all. You don't have a clue what you're talking about! The Ravens have Haloti Ngata and Terrell Suggs and Ray Lewis! That might have something to do with their ability to rush the passer! All those guys are high #1 draft picks.

            In fact, the Ravens spend so much of their salary cap on defensive players (including signing Trevor Pryce to a $10 million contract) that their offense sucks.

            They play a 3-4 so they bring a LB on most every play, and like other 3-4 defenses, they can disguise which LB will be blitzing.

            What I'm saying is exactly what Phil Simms was saying in the commentary on tonight's Patriots game, if you had been paying attention. You can't blitz Manning or Brady with 8 men consistently or they'll kill you by hitting an open WR for big plays. Roetlisberger did this in the 2005 AFC Championship. Manning did this in 2003 & 2004 to the Broncos.

            Of course, the Ravens having a dominant D-line (and front 7) helps a lot too and the Ravens have long been one of the dominant defenses in the NFL. (Their offense has been horrible though so that doesn't help much).

            It might not be a bad idea for the Broncos to go to a 3-4 if they could get the players to excel in it the way the Ravens have. That way they could disguise coverages and blitz different LBs from different angles, just like the Patriots did to the Colts in 2003 & 2004, and the Steelers did in 2005 and the Colts did to the Patriots in 2006.

            But, it will never happen because Shanahan doesn't want to do it and because the Broncos don't have a dominant NT.

            So, they're stuck with Shanahan's "10-6 and anything can happen in the playoffs" even though nothing ever does.
            Last edited by Cugel; 01-12-2008, 09:25 PM.
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            • #36
              It won't matter if Slowik installs a blitz happy defense, if the Broncos offense scores 30+ points per game. In fact, if the offense does generate that kind of output, many of us will be swearing up and down that we have the greatest defense on earth. Let's just hope the offense puts up those kind of points, because if they don't, it's going to be another bad year in Broncoville. Blitzing is going to be necessary because it's unlikely that the Broncos are going to have a front four that will get consistent pressure on the quarterback.
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              • #37
                Careful

                Originally posted by Cugel View Post
                That is the entire point. It's not that you can NEVER blitz, it's that if you need to blitz to succeed (as in 2005) then you get to the playoffs and get killed.

                If the Broncos went to the blitz-happy style of 2005 I would expect the defense to improve a lot during 2008. And everybody would be happy and talking about how eager they are to get to the playoffs, yada, yada, yada.

                And then the Broncos would run into teams you can't blitz and get killed. Just as they did in 2003, 2004 & 2005.
                You know who else didn't blitz this weekend? The Jaguars...
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                • #38
                  Originally posted by Ian View Post
                  You know who else didn't blitz this weekend? The Jaguars...
                  That wasn't why the Jaguars lost, nor does it even hint at proving that they would have won if they'd blitzed more!

                  They didn't blitz because Tom Brady kills the blitz. Everybody knows this, so they tried something different. They thought their front 4 (who are all very good) could get pressure on Brady WITHOUT blitzing, and they could occasionally bring 1 LB to add additional pressure.

                  It worked about as well as anything has this season against the Patriots. They made some key stops, but not enough, and their offense (which of course isn't nearly as good as the Pats) couldn't keep up.

                  Thus, they lost. Not a big surprise. The Patriots are simply so much better on offense than anybody else that they will very probably win a SB. I.E. NOBODY will beat them all year, and they will go down as the best team in the in the history of the NFL.

                  As much as I hate them, they will have proven it. So, saying that somebody didn't beat them doesn't mean that the approach was wrong, simply that no approach has yet worked.
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                  • #39
                    hmm... Okay, I'll give you the answer and you think of the question. Colts, Eagles, Ravens and Giants.

                    Imagine a thread where the title was "How Shannahan did in Oakland!"

                    At this point I'm convinced, it takes a nation, fair enough, but if I were a coach, I'm saying that NFL Offenses are becoming immune to this stran. Where can I go back, and which basics can I develop that will push these guys over the edge? History repeats itself and the most historic teams that stick out in my head had Defenses; The Steel Curtain, The Orange Crush, Bears, Ravens...

                    We don't remember Lawrence Taylor, Reggie White or Michael Strahan because of their knack for open field tackling... They kill Quarter Backs, by being part of blitzing Defenses.
                    Last edited by Ian; 01-16-2008, 10:35 PM.
                    I am Ian from BroncoTalk.net
                    Official Member of Team:
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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Cugel View Post

                      They didn't blitz because Tom Brady kills the blitz. Everybody knows this, so they tried something different. They thought their front 4 (who are all very good) could get pressure on Brady WITHOUT blitzing, and they could occasionally bring 1 LB to add additional pressure.
                      You said it for me my friend, they didn't blitz and they lost. I'm not saying I have all the answers, but as a Monday morning QB I have the luxury of the could have and would have. Had the Jags blitzed the Pats, we'd be watching the Chargers play the Jags this weekend.
                      I am Ian from BroncoTalk.net
                      Official Member of Team:
                      Champ Bailey and Lance Ball.

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                      • #41
                        Didn't Bellicheck get fired from his previous job in Cleveland? Also, if I recall correctly.... didn't we beat the Patriots in the playoffs in 05 with the "blitzing d" I agree that the scheme of blitz 8-9 or fake blitz 8-9 is not ideal. However, I think if our Offense is efficient and limits the 3 and outs then we should be good.
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                        • #42
                          I'm not really worried about bob slowik being our dc. Our offense has become very productive with the emergence of Marshall and Cutler and Selvin Young who will be even better next year which is scary. I believe Selvin Young will be a great back next year which will make Cutler even better. Also i forget which year this occured because i just recently got really into broncos, but we held many teams in the first part of year to score no touchdowns until we played Cleveland, and im pretty sure we had a blitz happy defense but I'm not sure. Shanny just needs to pick up a safety to replace Lynch, and some really good dts. Bring Al Wilson back!

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Cugel View Post
                            That is the entire point. It's not that you can NEVER blitz, it's that if you need to blitz to succeed (as in 2005) then you get to the playoffs and get killed.

                            If the Broncos went to the blitz-happy style of 2005 I would expect the defense to improve a lot during 2008. And everybody would be happy and talking about how eager they are to get to the playoffs, yada, yada, yada.

                            And then the Broncos would run into teams you can't blitz and get killed. Just as they did in 2003, 2004 & 2005.
                            no team's unblitzable. we beat new england by disrupting them with blitzes. the only thing is that some teams are just harder to find that balance for. it depends on the team, and the coach. on both ends.
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                            • #44
                              Other teams will blitz Brady and get killed but they dont have Champ Bailey...

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                              • #45
                                Originally posted by NinjaPirateFunk View Post
                                no team's unblitzable. we beat new england by disrupting them with blitzes. the only thing is that some teams are just harder to find that balance for. it depends on the team, and the coach. on both ends.
                                Well, of course, you're right. The Pats beat the Colts by bringing blitzes at Manning. It's just that you have to get good pressure with just 4 and then disguise coverages and then bring an extra LB or S from different angles, when he's not expecting it. And they have to get in his face quickly, and hit him after every throw and the CBs and S's have to have tight coverage on their receivers so he can't hit the quick slant.

                                And most importantly, without a doubt, you can't do that all the time or even most of the time.

                                In short you have to do a LOT right on defense to slow down an offense like the Colts. This year Marvin Harrison wasn't healthy and didn't play much against the Chargers andthat really hurt them. Instead of Harrison and Wayne they only had Wayne.

                                But, the Colts defense fell apart in that game, not their offense, just like it did in the playoffs in 2005 & 2006.

                                The Pats lost to the Broncos blitzing defense in 2005 -- but only because Brady missed a BUNCH of wide-open WRs deep down the middle on plays.

                                The weakness on the Pats was their WRs before this season. Then they got Randy Moss and Wes Walker and now it's one of the best sets of WRs in football. Obviously, that was the missing ingredient for them to turn them into possibly the most dominant team in NFL history.

                                If the 2005 Broncos played this years' Patriots would Brady have mistimed all those WRs? Or would Randy Moss have caught about 4 or 5 TDs?
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