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  • #16
    I think it's Royal and Allridge in the end. Eddie will be the punt returner and #1 KO returner with Allridge back there returning KO's also. This year's special teams will actually HELP the team. Good field position and solid coverage for a change.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by BeantownBronc View Post
      Starting field position is a misunderstood stat by many. It is effected FAR more by two things: turning the ball over on your own side of the field and NOT forcing turnovers. This has been killing the Broncos for the last two years. They are turning the ball over way more than they are forcing them, and they are doing it at midfield or in their own end a lot. This kills the field position stat.



      Not true. The difference between the worst kick return teams and the best kick return teams is not that big. Look at the numbers from last year:

      Kick Returns

      Best team was Cleveland, averaging 27 yards per return
      Worst was Chicago, averaging 18 yards per return
      Denver was in the middle, averaging 22 yards per return

      So, for all the crap they got about poor starting field position, it clearly wasn't because of kick returns. They did average there (not great, but not anywhere near the bottom)

      Punt Returns

      Best was Buffalo's Roscoe Parrish averaging 16.3 yards per return.
      Worst was Adam Jennings of Atlanta averaging 6.2.
      Again, Denver was average, with Glenn Martinez averaging 11.2 yds per return.

      So neither kick returns nor punt returns were to blame for their last place starting field position, so it must be something else. Turnovers people.

      Anyone expecting 15-20 yards of field position on EACH drive just because of the returner is dreaming.
      I don't think it was all turnovers. We did have +1 turnover ratio last year. A bigger problem was not converting on third and 4th downs to make first downs and push down the field. We were ranked 15th in the league on 3rd down conversion and 30th on 4th down conversion. We consistantly gave opposing teams better field position. We couldn't stop the run so teams would drive on us until we finally made a stop and then they would punt to our endzone. That is why we had bad field position...no run stopping and not converting first downs.
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      • #18
        Originally posted by broncos SB2010 View Post
        I don't think it was all turnovers. We did have +1 turnover ratio last year. A bigger problem was not converting on third and 4th downs to make first downs and push down the field. We were ranked 15th in the league on 3rd down conversion and 30th on 4th down conversion. We consistantly gave opposing teams better field position. We couldn't stop the run so teams would drive on us until we finally made a stop and then they would punt to our endzone. That is why we had bad field position...no run stopping and not converting first downs.
        Not converting on 4th downs = a turnover.

        And thank you. All your points above support my notion that the actual returning of kicks and punts does little to influence year long field position numbers.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by BeantownBronc View Post
          Not converting on 4th downs = a turnover.

          And thank you. All your points above support my notion that the actual returning of kicks and punts does little to influence year long field position numbers.
          yes..i agree. i was just thinking of interceptions and fumbles
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          • #20
            Originally posted by BeantownBronc View Post
            Not converting on 4th downs = a turnover.

            And thank you. All your points above support my notion that the actual returning of kicks and punts does little to influence year long field position numbers.
            And also further supports the reason to question the rationale to draft a returner with the 2nd of the team's 2 first day picks...

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            • #21
              Originally posted by SkinnyTony View Post
              And also further supports the reason to question the rationale to draft a returner with the 2nd of the team's 2 first day picks...
              Because excellent returners can change games e.g. dante hall, hester etc. and also he is much more than just a returner he will be an awesome slot receiver after stokley is gone if not an awesome receiver period.
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              • #22
                Originally posted by broncos SB2010 View Post
                Because excellent returners can change games e.g. dante hall, hester etc. and also he is much more than just a returner he will be an awesome slot receiver after stokley is gone if not an awesome receiver period.
                You're apparently not following along here, and if you are I guess you're not agreeing. We've established that the returner in the return game is a very small factor in the grand scheme of things. Field position is more a factor of offensive efficiency (moving the ball, converting 3rd downs, turnover minimization, etc.) and defensive efficiency (stopping drives, forcing punts on third down, turnover maximization, etc.) than it is the return game. And to the extent the return game is a factor the blocking is just as, or more, important as the returner himself.

                This team had trouble stopping the run, scoring in the red zone and, if I'm not mistaken, both converting 3rd downs offensively and stopping them defensively. To me this means the team most needed to address line of scrimmage deficiencies. Sure, upgrade your punt and kick return specialist positions. BUT NOT IN THE SECOND ROUND! Not when you desperately need help at DT, LB, and S.

                It really can't be that difficult of a concept to grasp. It really can't.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by SkinnyTony View Post
                  You're apparently not following along here, and if you are I guess you're not agreeing. We've established that the returner in the return game is a very small factor in the grand scheme of things. Field position is more a factor of offensive efficiency (moving the ball, converting 3rd downs, turnover minimization, etc.) and defensive efficiency (stopping drives, forcing punts on third down, turnover maximization, etc.) than it is the return game. And to the extent the return game is a factor the blocking is just as, or more, important as the returner himself.

                  This team had trouble stopping the run, scoring in the red zone and, if I'm not mistaken, both converting 3rd downs offensively and stopping them defensively. To me this means the team most needed to address line of scrimmage deficiencies.
                  Sure, upgrade your punt and kick return specialist positions. BUT NOT IN THE SECOND ROUND! Not when you desperately need help at DT, LB, and S.

                  It really can't be that difficult of a concept to grasp. It really can't.
                  I agree with all of this, however we addressed DT, S and LB thru FA. Robertson is way better than any rookie we could have gotten and Powell looks like a good guy in the rotation. Robertson and Thomas in the middle will be a great team I believe. We picked up Mcree who will be a solid starter, not great but solid and we can address this next year if Barrett doesn't work out (which I highly doubt). At LB we got Niko and larsen and while still a question mark, the need was addressed. If things don't work out with these two, we can still pull a trade early in the season if necessary. With these needs addressed we had some leeway to address another need ...WR. With Walker gone who did we have as #2-4? Stokley can't be a #2, he proved that last year. When we moved him to #2 he got injured and then lost our best slot receiver. Jackson? Colbert? All the other receivers have been inadequate at their other teams lately, hopefully this will change here at Denver but it is still a big question mark. If Stokley does become our #2 we can put Royal in the slot without much of a let down there. Part of the reason we couldn't convert first downs was our weakness at the WR position. Royal will help in that area as well as at returner so a double benefit to us. Believe me I understand the weaknesses we have and I was hoping for a stout MLB or big name WR like Limas Sweed at the second pick and when they picked Royal I said..Who's that? If we would have had 3rd round pick they might have waited for him there but we didn't and they took they guy they thought they needed most. After reading up on him I truly believe he is much more than just a returner. His receiving and end around skills will help us convert those downs we so disparately needed last year and I expect him to be star for us very soon and fully support his selection in the draft.

                  Only time will tell if this was a good pick and I can hardly wait until the season starts to see our new guys in action so the real evaluation can begin.
                  Last edited by broncos SB2010; 05-16-2008, 04:45 PM.
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