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Defensive shemes we should run

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  • Defensive shemes we should run

    Looking over our new personnel, here is a couple new schemes I would like to see on defense.

    4-4-3 running downs

    LDE Crowder
    LDT Robertson
    RDT Thomas
    RDE Ekuban

    ROLB Woodyard
    RILB DJ
    LILB Niko
    LOLB Spenser

    LCB Champ
    RCB Bly
    S McCree

    I like this setup because we are physical on the edges and we have what really equates to a MLB with two MLB/OLB tweeners in the box. Woodyard is that SS in the box but a little bigger with great tackling skills. I really like this group against SD, using Woodyard as a spy on LT and Spenser being physical enough to jam Gates up at the line.

    5-2-4 Passing Downs

    RDE Dumervil
    RDT Crowder
    MDT Thomas
    LDT Ekuban
    LDE Moss

    LB Barrett
    LB Bailey

    CB Champ
    CB Bly
    CB Paymah
    S Abdullah

    Some may be shocked to see me sitting DJ, but against a team like NE or Indy, I would go with a couple guys at LB that have the speed to blitz and shut down the flats. Both teams will dump passes to the RB, so I am getting 4 DEs on the front to generate a pass rush and take away the quick dump offs. I would coach Barrett up on TE coverage and make that his specialty. Putting him in the box really makes this more of a 5-1-5, but I envision Barret more as a tweener.

    Hopefully guys like Woodyard, Spenser, and Barrett can at least become specialty players that allow us to rotate in and at least confuse some QBs. We have been very predictable on D over the last few years. I am hoping we landed a couple duel threat players on D that can do more than just one job. Anyways, just doing a little outside the box thinking.

    R Ayers - B Cofield - A Haynesworth - CJ ohnson
    J Anderson - J Beason - DJ Williams
    R Bailey - P Amukamara - R Hill - A Goodman

  • #2
    Some may be shocked to see me sitting DJ, but against a team like NE or Indy, I would go with a couple guys at LB that have the speed to blitz and shut down the flats.
    DJ is the fastest linebacker on the team and he had one of his best games against the Pats...so yeah: color me shocked.

    I also think you're really overestimating Boss. I personally feel Boss is going to suck. At best he will be serviceable, which is all he ever was in Detroit.

    Lynch already kind of plays the Linebacker position in our defense, so in a sense your idea for the 4-4-3 is not far off.
    KHAAAAAAAAANNNNNNNNN!!!!!!!

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Kaylore View Post
      DJ is the fastest linebacker on the team and he had one of his best games against the Pats...so yeah: color me shocked.

      I also think you're really overestimating Boss. I personally feel Boss is going to suck. At best he will be serviceable, which is all he ever was in Detroit.

      Lynch already kind of plays the Linebacker position in our defense, so in a sense your idea for the 4-4-3 is not far off.
      I do not like the Boss singing all that much, but I do believe he is better in coverage than DJ. If I was going to sit Boss it would be for Woodyard (which was my original idea). DJ's two weakest areas are pass rush and coverage, which I believe is Boss' best areas.

      What would really make the 5-2-4 work is a LB like Brian Cushing next year, a guy that is an outstanding pass rusher and can run with a TE.

      Keep in mind I am not saying either of these should be a base defense, but I can see both as useful against certain teams.

      R Ayers - B Cofield - A Haynesworth - CJ ohnson
      J Anderson - J Beason - DJ Williams
      R Bailey - P Amukamara - R Hill - A Goodman

      Comment


      • #4
        As far as the 4-4-3 goes Bailey/Woodyard I would go with bailey. Woodyard struggled in run downs as compared to his passing downs. DJ is an OLB if you have him and larsen both in than larsen should be the inside and DJ on the outside. Larsen is run stopper not a coverage guy and we need someone faster on the outside . I also wouldn't pull Robertson out on passing downs he will take double teams leaving others unblocked or man-man.

        Isn't Barrett a safety? Or are you thinking of having him gplay as a LB. DJ won't be pulled on passing downs unless he needs a breather. If we have 2 LBs in on passing downs it's going to be Boss and DJ.
        Last edited by broncos SB2010; 05-19-2008, 11:31 AM.
        sigpic

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        • #5
          Originally posted by broncos SB2010 View Post
          As far as the 4-4-3 goes Bailey/Woodyard I would go with bailey. Woodyard struggled in run downs as compared to his passing downs. DJ is an OLB if you have him and larsen both in than larsen should be the inside and DJ on the outside. Larsen is run stopper not a coverage guy and we need someone faster on the outside . I also wouldn't pull Robertson out on passing downs he will take double teams leaving others unblocked or man-man.

          Isn't Barrett a safety? Or are you thinking of having him gplay as a LB. DJ won't be pulled on passing downs unless he needs a breather. If we have 2 LBs in on passing downs it's going to be Boss and DJ.
          I sat Robertson because I want him fresh for run D, with 5 on 5, the Dline should not be facing many double teams inside and Thomas should be a better penetrating DT.

          It is a fair assessment on Woodyard vs Bailey, but IMO (and it is just that, an opinion) Bailey plays soft against the run. Woodyard would be more of a rover that could bounce outside DJ or Spenser. Spenser was drafted to play MLB, but has played a lot of WSLB, so him and DJ are kinda comparable. Being able to move Woodyard from left to right would allow us to give opposing QBs different looks, even dropping him back to a SS spot instantly going to a more traditional 4-3 look when the RB empties the backfield.

          R Ayers - B Cofield - A Haynesworth - CJ ohnson
          J Anderson - J Beason - DJ Williams
          R Bailey - P Amukamara - R Hill - A Goodman

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Cutler2007 View Post
            I sat Robertson because I want him fresh for run D, with 5 on 5, the Dline should not be facing many double teams inside and Thomas should be a better penetrating DT.

            It is a fair assessment on Woodyard vs Bailey, but IMO (and it is just that, an opinion) Bailey plays soft against the run. Woodyard would be more of a rover that could bounce outside DJ or Spenser. Spenser was drafted to play MLB, but has played a lot of WSLB, so him and DJ are kinda comparable. Being able to move Woodyard from left to right would allow us to give opposing QBs different looks, even dropping him back to a SS spot instantly going to a more traditional 4-3 look when the RB empties the backfield.
            Interesting opinion..we shall see. Only 2 months until it all starts. Wish it would hurry and get here!!
            sigpic

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Cutler2007 View Post
              I do not like the Boss singing all that much
              wait? boss bailey was on american idol?



              anyway, i really like the 443 scheme.

              not so sure that we should rush 5 people on passing downs. i know we're desperate to get pressure but i think we should improve. the only way i see the 5-2-4 scheme working is if we don't blitze anyone. and i love to blitz. with 5 people rushing like that its basically 5 one on one matchups and i think we could be more effective if we do some sort of over load blitz.

              also, why is paymah in for foxy?
              disclaimer: if the above post appears to contain outrageously illogical content, ITS PROBABLY SARCASM

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by broncos1997 View Post

                also, why is paymah in for foxy?
                If we are rushing 5 and maybe even blitzing a Bailey/Barrett, I want press CBs. IMO Paymah is a better press CB and Foxy a zone CB. If a team goes 4 wide than Foxy would replace Abdullah.

                The whole idea here is to make the QB get rid of the ball quickly, and I still have flashbacks of the AFCC game against Pitt with Foxy playing 10 yards off and getting worked over by Rothlisberger.

                R Ayers - B Cofield - A Haynesworth - CJ ohnson
                J Anderson - J Beason - DJ Williams
                R Bailey - P Amukamara - R Hill - A Goodman

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Cutler2007 View Post
                  If we are rushing 5 and maybe even blitzing a Bailey/Barrett, I want press CBs. IMO Paymah is a better press CB and Foxy a zone CB. If a team goes 4 wide than Foxy would replace Abdullah.

                  The whole idea here is to make the QB get rid of the ball quickly, and I still have flashbacks of the AFCC game against Pitt with Foxy playing 10 yards off and getting worked over by Rothlisberger.
                  good point. i always thought of paymah as a whole lot more physical
                  disclaimer: if the above post appears to contain outrageously illogical content, ITS PROBABLY SARCASM

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Defenses

                    The 4-4-3, or rather the split-six or just 60 D, is found often at the HS level where many offenses are predominantly run-oriented. We found it to be effective against Wing-T offenses which were ubiquitous then. It is somewhat less effective vs. option teams.

                    Question is: In the NFL, what is a running down? If it's 3rd or 4th and 1 or less, most defenses will be in goalline anyway. I have to believe that even if an NFL offense had run called, they would check to a pass as soon as they read the split-six especially if scouting had shown it as a possibility.

                    When you say 5-2-4, your personnel selection shows five down linemen. (You realize that the so-called 3-4 is actually a variant of the Oklahoma 50, but with stand-up DEs/OLBs). The 5-2-4 might be a good defense to check to a run when it's shown. With so many down linemen so close and easily blocked and so few backers, some pretty simple runs, previously game-planned, might be quite effective.

                    Perhaps, it would be better to disguise the defense instead of presenting ones that are so obvious.
                    "Stultum est timere quod vitare non potes." ~ Publilius Syrus

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by samparnell View Post
                      The 4-4-3, or rather the split-six or just 60 D, is found often at the HS level where many offenses are predominantly run-oriented. We found it to be effective against Wing-T offenses which were ubiquitous then. It is somewhat less effective vs. option teams.

                      Question is: In the NFL, what is a running down? If it's 3rd or 4th and 1 or less, most defenses will be in goalline anyway. I have to believe that even if an NFL offense had run called, they would check to a pass as soon as they read the split-six especially if scouting had shown it as a possibility.
                      I guess saying personnel more than down would dictate this defensive package. The Panthers are a team that ran this quite effectively because they had DEs that could rush the passer as well as be stout against the run. The key is having a player that can excel equally well as a LB or a Safety. In my mind Woodyard can be that type of player. Teams with 2 TEs and/or FB on the field would have a hard time checking pass and putting us at a disadvantage. Woodyard could simply drop back or go man on a TE. Having a CB like Champ also helps as we only need one Safety offering over the top help.

                      When you say 5-2-4, your personnel selection shows five down linemen. (You realize that the so-called 3-4 is actually a variant of the Oklahoma 50, but with stand-up DEs/OLBs). The 5-2-4 might be a good defense to check to a run when it's shown. With so many down linemen so close and easily blocked and so few backers, some pretty simple runs, previously game-planned, might be quite effective.
                      Once again, it really has to do with the opposing personnel. If a team has 3 wide and wants to check down to a run, we can adapt to that by running run blitzes. Like I said, this is not a base D, but a variation of a dime package. I will take my chances of stopping a team from a 7-10 yard run on third down with the the Safety/LB tweeners pretty much keying on RB anyways.

                      Perhaps, it would be better to disguise the defense instead of presenting ones that are so obvious.
                      I just do not find them obvious, when you have flexible personnel, but I guess thats just a difference of opinion on what guys like Barrett and Woodyard can do as role players.

                      R Ayers - B Cofield - A Haynesworth - CJ ohnson
                      J Anderson - J Beason - DJ Williams
                      R Bailey - P Amukamara - R Hill - A Goodman

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Cutler2007 View Post
                        Looking over our new personnel, here is a couple new schemes I would like to see on defense.

                        4-4-3 running downs

                        LDE Crowder
                        LDT Robertson
                        RDT Thomas
                        RDE Ekuban

                        ROLB Woodyard
                        RILB DJ
                        LILB Niko
                        LOLB Spenser

                        LCB Champ
                        RCB Bly
                        S McCree

                        I like this setup because we are physical on the edges and we have what really equates to a MLB with two MLB/OLB tweeners in the box. Woodyard is that SS in the box but a little bigger with great tackling skills. I really like this group against SD, using Woodyard as a spy on LT and Spenser being physical enough to jam Gates up at the line.

                        5-2-4 Passing Downs

                        RDE Dumervil
                        RDT Crowder
                        MDT Thomas
                        LDT Ekuban
                        LDE Moss

                        LB Barrett
                        LB Bailey

                        CB Champ
                        CB Bly
                        CB Paymah
                        S Abdullah

                        Some may be shocked to see me sitting DJ, but against a team like NE or Indy, I would go with a couple guys at LB that have the speed to blitz and shut down the flats. Both teams will dump passes to the RB, so I am getting 4 DEs on the front to generate a pass rush and take away the quick dump offs. I would coach Barrett up on TE coverage and make that his specialty. Putting him in the box really makes this more of a 5-1-5, but I envision Barret more as a tweener.

                        Hopefully guys like Woodyard, Spenser, and Barrett can at least become specialty players that allow us to rotate in and at least confuse some QBs. We have been very predictable on D over the last few years. I am hoping we landed a couple duel threat players on D that can do more than just one job. Anyways, just doing a little outside the box thinking.
                        I'd rather have Lynch in on running downs, and I'm not crazy about four DE's in on passing downs. I'd recommend putting Powell in the middle because he is a big body that should require either putting two bodies on him or he is in the backfield, and putting Thomas where Ekuban is(to give him a rest, he's over 30). Two DTs with three DE's should scare any O-line.
                        sigpic
                        Made by Houshmazode

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                        • #13
                          I'm all for them playing "TACKLE FOOTBALL" this year.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Cutler2007 View Post
                            I just do not find them obvious, when you have flexible personnel, but I guess thats just a difference of opinion on what guys like Barrett and Woodyard can do as role players.
                            Actually, when the Broncos have a safety in the box, it's very much like a 4-4/split six. In the event Woodyard makes the team, he is the kind of guy who could make the D hard to read. Was he drafted as a SS or OLB? A FS with range and cover skills (either break-on-the-ball zone or cover zero) helps a lot. If Barrett makes the team he could be that guy.

                            On the other hand, looking at it from the point-of-view of the QB or OC in the box, five down linemen is pretty obvious. I think this a reason the 50 D is widely used in the NFL now. It's interesting how the personnel types needed for 4-3 and the 50 differ so much.
                            "Stultum est timere quod vitare non potes." ~ Publilius Syrus

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                            • #15
                              what the hell are you talking about running down versus passing down. Any good QB will take one look at the defense, call an audible and score a touchdown on our obvious defenses, this isn't flag football.
                              Goal Line Blitz - It's not a game, It's an addiction.... Proud owner of the Mile High Gladiators and GM of the Mile High Mustangs

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