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  • 2-Gap?

    With the dismissal of Bates, are the Broncos moving back to a 2-gap system? More blitzing = less pressure by the DL. It sounds like that's where we're going. Thoughts?
    "Pey-Pey to Bay-Bay for the Tay Day!!"

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  • #2
    I would think so, we saw a ton of blitzing 2 and 3 years ago, and it worked great, but we could also stop the run. Boss and DJ should be nasty blitzing..along with Dumerville and Moss coming from the Ends.
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    • #3
      Originally posted by Lomax View Post
      With the dismissal of Bates, are the Broncos moving back to a 2-gap system? More blitzing = less pressure by the DL. It sounds like that's where we're going. Thoughts?
      The answer is 'yes.' Slowik is from the 'bend, but don't break' school of defense that Shanahan has been a big fan of. The DL's job will be to contain, while the LB's put on the pressure.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by MnF View Post
        I would think so, we saw a ton of blitzing 2 and 3 years ago, and it worked great, but we could also stop the run. Boss and DJ should be nasty blitzing..along with Dumerville and Moss coming from the Ends.
        The only problem, as we have found when playing good teams with strong QB's, is that when you live by the blitz, you die by the blitz. QB's that pick up the blitz and are ready for you can hurt you big in very short order. I think we will still likely have to play Manning in the playoffs, for example. We need pressure from the line as well as blitzes.
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        • #5
          Originally posted by jetrazor74 View Post
          The answer is 'yes.' Slowik is from the 'bend, but don't break' school of defense that Shanahan has been a big fan of. The DL's job will be to contain, while the LB's put on the pressure.
          Correct me if im wrong... But wasnt it the d-lines job to just take up blockers last year? And just allow our linebackers to make all the plays? Wouldnt that take away from Elvis Dumervilles and Jarvis Moss's pass rushing abilities. Anyone want to explain it to me cuz im a bit confused
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          • #6
            Originally posted by rogue719 View Post
            The only problem, as we have found when playing good teams with strong QB's, is that when you live by the blitz, you die by the blitz. QB's that pick up the blitz and are ready for you can hurt you big in very short order. I think we will still likely have to play Manning in the playoffs, for example. We need pressure from the line as well as blitzes.
            Thats where we have to count on Bly and Champ playing at a high level, we also have added a corner in the draft with some very good speed.

            Obviously we have never blitzed 100% of the time, so it shouldn't be a all in thing..
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            • #7
              Originally posted by cutler7624 View Post
              Correct me if im wrong... But wasnt it the d-lines job to just take up blockers last year? And just allow our linebackers to make all the plays? Wouldnt that take away from Elvis Dumervilles and Jarvis Moss's pass rushing abilities. Anyone want to explain it to me cuz im a bit confused
              Yea, its a retarded defense that Nebraska ran last year, part of the reason why the defense was so horrible, wrong personal for the 'engaging' defense
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              • #8
                Originally posted by Lomax View Post
                With the dismissal of Bates, are the Broncos moving back to a 2-gap system? More blitzing = less pressure by the DL. It sounds like that's where we're going. Thoughts?

                Accually, Bates system was with 2-gap responsibilities for both D-tackles.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by cutler7624 View Post
                  Correct me if im wrong... But wasnt it the d-lines job to just take up blockers last year? And just allow our linebackers to make all the plays? Wouldnt that take away from Elvis Dumervilles and Jarvis Moss's pass rushing abilities. Anyone want to explain it to me cuz im a bit confused
                  No that is the basic idea of a 3-4 (occupy blockers)... being a 4-3 our dline is penitrate and make a play in the back field. LB's just flow to the ball and blitz. It is the same basic D that we ran in the SB years. The whole thing hindges on haveing a Lb that can blitz effectively. Cause you gotta get to the QB...but you also gotta stay under control to make plays on the back. Our LBs on paper fit the bill but since none have any experience....we are going to have to see
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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by rogue719 View Post
                    The only problem, as we have found when playing good teams with strong QB's, is that when you live by the blitz, you die by the blitz. QB's that pick up the blitz and are ready for you can hurt you big in very short order. I think we will still likely have to play Manning in the playoffs, for example. We need pressure from the line as well as blitzes.
                    Well that is the challange.....you gotta disguise the preasure. That is why Pittsburg give Manning fits. They are able to show preasure on one side, and to actually be sending preasure from the other side. So the QB is always looking into the coverage instead of the preasure. That is a very hard thing to do. But it can be done
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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by bjoli198 View Post
                      Accually, Bates system was with 2-gap responsibilities for both D-tackles.
                      According to Bates himself, his scheme is a one gap responsibility. I remember an article in which Sam Adams got on the reporter for calling it a two gap scheme. He was very emphatic about the fact that it is a one gap scheme.

                      As far as what the defense will be this year, it is going to still be a one gap scheme. The question is whether it will be the 2005 version that got us to the AFC CG or the 2006 version that had us lose to the Niners in the last game, preventing us from getting to the playoffs. With the personnel we have on the line this year, the 2006 version might be good enough. That was the year that Shanahan ordered Coyer to not blitz as much as he did in 2005. The idea was to get pressure on the quarterback with the front four. That's the ideal scenario, but if it doesn't work, Shanahan and Slowik better be willing to turn on the blitzing.
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                      • #12
                        '08 Bronco D

                        Originally posted by Lomax View Post
                        With the dismissal of Bates, are the Broncos moving back to a 2-gap system? More blitzing = less pressure by the DL. It sounds like that's where we're going. Thoughts?
                        Bates' system called for the DTs to play 2-gap/read & react/jam & slide/soak up blocks.

                        The acquisition (not inquisition) of DeWayne Robertson and Carlton Powell and the wearing down of Marcus Thomas toward the end of the '07 season, Alvin McKinley's inability to play 2-gap, the cover ability of the DBs (especially the corners), Shanahan's preference for a box Safety with a full package of blitzes all lead to the conclusion that: what you can expect to see in '08 is one gap DL play with slants and stunts on most downs, plenty of twists w/the backers, a full blitz package including the box S, and lots of cover-one, cover zero vs. 3 & 4 WR formations and every conceivable zone coverage mixed in as well. Don't expect to see cover-two because of the apparent intention of having one S in or near the tackle box.

                        While it's true that the 50 D (3-4) calls for a NT and two 5 techniques to play two-gap, it doesn't necessarily follow that a split-front (4-3) has to play one-gap. 4-3 DL can play two-gap; it just depends on the system. You could even have strong-side 2/3 tech. play two-gap and split-side 3 tech. play one-gap. Or a D could have a whole set of calls where the DL plays all of those styles. The characteristics of the personnel can tell you which way the DL will play. Denver had a chance to draft Frank Okam who would be a good two-gapper, but they got Carlton Powell, an accomplished one-gapper. DeWayne is a spectacular one-gapper whom the Jets didn't need for their 50 (3-4) D. Marcus Thomas, an extremely athletic DT, would be wasted as a two-gapper. His talents would be much better playing mostly one-gap. It just seems, at the moment, that the Broncos will be a more aggressive one-gap style predominantly. One-gap penetration does NOT mean wildly going up field. It's gap control, up to one yard/ball depth max. Changing up the DL calls is disruptive and makes OL blocking calls/assignments more difficult and makes running the ball more difficult.
                        "Stultum est timere quod vitare non potes." ~ Publilius Syrus

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by samparnell View Post
                          Bates' system called for the DTs to play 2-gap/read & react/jam & slide/soak up blocks.

                          The acquisition (not inquisition) of DeWayne Robertson and Carlton Powell and the wearing down of Marcus Thomas toward the end of the '07 season, Alvin McKinley's inability to play 2-gap, the cover ability of the DBs (especially the corners), Shanahan's preference for a box Safety with a full package of blitzes all lead to the conclusion that: what you can expect to see in '08 is one gap DL play with slants and stunts on most downs, plenty of twists w/the backers, a full blitz package including the box S, and lots of cover-one, cover zero vs. 3 & 4 WR formations and every conceivable zone coverage mixed in as well. Don't expect to see cover-two because of the apparent intention of having one S in or near the tackle box.

                          While it's true that the 50 D (3-4) calls for a NT and two 5 techniques to play two-gap, it doesn't necessarily follow that a split-front (4-3) has to play one-gap. 4-3 DL can play two-gap; it just depends on the system. You could even have strong-side 2/3 tech. play two-gap and split-side 3 tech. play one-gap. Or a D could have a whole set of calls where the DL plays all of those styles. The characteristics of the personnel can tell you which way the DL will play. Denver had a chance to draft Frank Okam who would be a good two-gapper, but they got Carlton Powell, an accomplished one-gapper. DeWayne is a spectacular one-gapper whom the Jets didn't need for their 50 (3-4) D. Marcus Thomas, an extremely athletic DT, would be wasted as a two-gapper. His talents would be much better playing mostly one-gap. It just seems, at the moment, that the Broncos will be a more aggressive one-gap style predominantly. One-gap penetration does NOT mean wildly going up field. It's gap control, up to one yard/ball depth max. Changing up the DL calls is disruptive and makes OL blocking calls/assignments more difficult and makes running the ball more difficult.
                          Makes sense. So the evolution from 2-gap in the Coyer system to the 1-gap in the new system requires not only a more athletic front (which we have), but smarter LBs since they will have more responsibilities. It's nice that we solved one piece of the puzzle, but do we have the experience and game smarts at LB to make it work?
                          "Pey-Pey to Bay-Bay for the Tay Day!!"

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                          • #14
                            Sure.

                            Originally posted by Lomax View Post
                            Makes sense. So the evolution from 2-gap in the Coyer system to the 1-gap in the new system requires not only a more athletic front (which we have), but smarter LBs since they will have more responsibilities. It's nice that we solved one piece of the puzzle, but do we have the experience and game smarts at LB to make it work?
                            The gap control D involves the backers, too. The front seven basically have six gaps to cover. On a run, corners come up for outside contain or the safeties rotate over or both. Gap control gives each guy a specific responsibility and actually results in less freelancing like you see in a read and react scheme.

                            DJ Williams, Boss Bailey and Nikos Koutouvides have plenty of experience and smarts to play this D. If Winborn, Beck and Larsen end up as backups, they are plenty smart enough and Winborn might even start for some other teams.

                            The secondary will do fine, too. As the older Safeties retire and new ones, maybe Barrett and Woodyard, step in the Broncos might be able to take a S out of the box in order to mix the coverages. They may start this season with a S in the box because the run D last year wasn't too good and teams they play early (Oakland & San Diego) will try to run. As the DL and backers get up to speed, the box S may disappear in favor of occasional cover two.
                            "Stultum est timere quod vitare non potes." ~ Publilius Syrus

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                            • #15
                              I don't care who get's the pressure and how, I just want to see Philip Rivers get demolished when we play him this year.

                              "You better make yourself comfortable down there, real comfortable!"

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